[ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes - page 256.

NoobKidOnTheBlock

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

FLY DONATION ADDRESS IN SIGNATURE

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 11:17:14 AM

is there something thinkable that could be even more advanced/efficient than an ASIC?

lol, i'm just kidding... puting the algorithm itself in hardwired form is the end of the road, right?

So atleast then this arms race ends.

So maybe we should all welcome ASIC and hope that we get there as soon as possible... maybe every coin has to hope that.

Maybe this is a little off topic but has anyone seen that cleverhash.com site where apparently they have these ASIC miners for X algos that can mine like 1Th or something like that? I was just glancing over it and was wondering if it was a total scam or if anyone actually knew anyone that had gotten anything off of them? I mean if that is true someone could swamp any X algos with one or two of those puppies lol

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

is there something thinkable that could be even more advanced/efficient than an ASIC?

lol, i'm just kidding... puting the algorithm itself in hardwired form is the end of the road, right?

So atleast then this arms race ends.

So maybe we should all welcome ASIC and hope that we get there as soon as possible... maybe every coin has to hope that.

soundwallet

full member

Activity: 121

Merit: 100

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: soundwallet on January 19, 2015, 10:32:07 AM

The most safe way is to push the GPU hashpower to the extreme making it little room to improve.
The most fair way is to let every miner get the fastest miner at the same time and mine at the same starting point .
CPU-->GPU-->FPGA-->ASIC is an evitable trend for every successful BIG coin,no exception!

There's ONE big coin, BTC. Sample size is too small to say that.

Yes,you are right if you compare BTC with traditional industry scale.
Everybody is keen on arms race driven by profit,ASIC is the ultimate weapon --nuclear weapon. Grin

soundwallet

full member

Activity: 121

Merit: 100

The most safe way is to push the GPU hashpower to the extreme making it little room to improve.
The most fair way is to let every miner get the fastest miner at the same time and mine at the same starting point .
CPU-->GPU-->FPGA-->ASIC is an evitable trend for every successful BIG coin,no exception!

soundwallet

full member

Activity: 121

Merit: 100

CPU-only is really a stupid idea,just look back at what happend to XPM,DTC,PTS,BCN,......
Do you think you are smarter than XPM dev?? !!
And it's really stupid for old crytpo players to discuss such an old topic here.

antonio8

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 08:09:23 AM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 07:19:29 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 18, 2015, 10:26:01 PM

Quote from: Gladimor on January 18, 2015, 08:40:03 PM

Anyone think we should put together a community bounty fund for an improved GPU miner?

I'd rather pay for a true CPU only solution.

Impossible. What you CAN do, is make GPU simply not worth it. But it's a really stupid idea - botnets will then dominate the hashrate if your coin has any value.

EDIT: Shit, what am I saying, I'm better at CPU dev than GPU dev. Disregard my last. Cheesy

Please explain to me why CPU mining is prone to botnet subversion but GPU or ASIC mining is magically not.

If it's connected to the internet, it's hackable. CPU/GPU/ASIC makes no damn difference. If an attacker has control of your box, and your mining software, then they have control of your mining hardware too whatever that might be.

Exactly.

Also what I never understood is.... yeah I understand it's possible that someone makes my pc his bot and makes it spread emails or malware, without me noticing it immediately. Ok, get it.

But how is he going to let my pc CPU mine without me noticing the higher temperature, the higher noise the fans are going to make, and the general slowliness that will make me wonder immediately what's going on with my pc?

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Just a few examples Wink

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2452080/facebook-kills-lecpetex-botnet-which-hit-250000-computers.html

http://www.coindesk.com/how-homeowners-helped-hackers-500-million-dogecoins/ And look at the date this happened. Doge was still at a decent price.

There are others that you can search yourself. These are examples of every day people who became infected.

Maybe 80-90% of people who get infected have no idea. They just know that their computer is "slow". I have worked on peoples computer who have not updated virus protection from 6 months to a year. Some who had none at all. The average person has no idea how to protect themselves. How many of you have seen a family or friend's computer that has the browser where there are tool bars that take up 1/4 of the page. Most of these people just click "next" when they install something and never read the add ons or anything else.

So yes. Just going back to cpu at this point would be more harm than good. It is catching the attention of people. And besides botnets if it did go back to cpu only someone would eventually make a stand alone cpu miner and just rent AWS or something and control it. That is if a cpu stand alone miner does not exits now.

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Quote from: sony87 on January 19, 2015, 09:07:32 AM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 08:30:03 AM

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Large offices/companies are probably running a bunch of shitty old Celerons, I don't think it's much of a threat. And any company that happens to have rackfulls of 14 core Xeons is likely to have a sysadmin that just might notice the sudden massive load increase or their atomic weapons simulation or HFT algos grinding suddenly to a halt and various red strobing lights and ear splitting sirens going off.

Botnets are more myth than reality in cryptocurrencies.

Allow me to disagree

We are on i5 for around 3000 machines

...which run in near idle mode most of the time.
(idle means I mostly write and read emails and documents with my machine)

On my machine, the difference between power consumption in idle mode and power consumption with 100% CPU is 500%.
Idle = 30 W, cpu 100% = 150 W.
(I included motherboard etc... but NOT screen etc..)

So, I believe that your company will really start to worry when suddenly the power bill is 5 times higher.

sony87

sr. member

Activity: 440

Merit: 250

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 08:30:03 AM

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Large offices/companies are probably running a bunch of shitty old Celerons, I don't think it's much of a threat. And any company that happens to have rackfulls of 14 core Xeons is likely to have a sysadmin that just might notice the sudden massive load increase or their atomic weapons simulation or HFT algos grinding suddenly to a halt and various red strobing lights and ear splitting sirens going off.

Botnets are more myth than reality in cryptocurrencies.

Allow me to disagree

We are on i5 for around 3000 machines

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 08:30:03 AM

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Large offices/companies are probably running a bunch of shitty old Celerons, I don't think it's much of a threat. And any company that happens to have rackfulls of 14 core Xeons is likely to have a sysadmin that just might notice the sudden massive load increase or their atomic weapons simulation or HFT algos grinding suddenly to a halt and various red strobing red lights and ear splitting sirens going off.

Botnets are more myth than reality in cryptocurrencies.

Of COURSE it's a threat - one shitty Celeron is not, ten thousand matter.

I hear you, and you make valid points.

But this all reminds me of this guy working at some super computer facility and mining bitcoin with them, when ASICS were already here.
Totally useless and stupid, and I think he lost his job when they found out he used the totally inefficient (for SHA-256(SHA-256)) supercomputers to mine bitcoin. Roll Eyes

Yes, it's not just about the hashrate it's also about the number of cpus, but...

Will such a celeron even do 5 KH at 100%?
So 10k of them will result in maybe 50 MH/s?
That's a ridiculously low reward for such an operation.

defunctec

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 08:30:03 AM

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Botnets are more myth than reality in cryptocurrencies.

Good point

Id say CPU and GPU only is a myth also.

As mining becomes ever more profitable, market pressure will lead to faster CPU speeds and ultimately ASICs.

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: defunctec on January 19, 2015, 08:24:13 AM

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

Large offices/companies are probably running a bunch of shitty old Celerons, I don't think it's much of a threat. And any company that happens to have rackfulls of 14 core Xeons is likely to have a sysadmin that just might notice the sudden massive load increase or their atomic weapons simulation or HFT algos grinding suddenly to a halt and various red strobing lights and ear splitting sirens going off.

Botnets are more myth than reality in cryptocurrencies.

defunctec

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 08:09:23 AM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 07:19:29 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 18, 2015, 10:26:01 PM

Quote from: Gladimor on January 18, 2015, 08:40:03 PM

Anyone think we should put together a community bounty fund for an improved GPU miner?

I'd rather pay for a true CPU only solution.

Impossible. What you CAN do, is make GPU simply not worth it. But it's a really stupid idea - botnets will then dominate the hashrate if your coin has any value.

EDIT: Shit, what am I saying, I'm better at CPU dev than GPU dev. Disregard my last. Cheesy

Please explain to me why CPU mining is prone to botnet subversion but GPU or ASIC mining is magically not.

If it's connected to the internet, it's hackable. CPU/GPU/ASIC makes no damn difference. If an attacker has control of your box, and your mining software, then they have control of your mining hardware too whatever that might be.

Exactly.

Also what I never understood is.... yeah I understand it's possible that someone makes my pc his bot and makes it spread emails or malware, without me noticing it immediately. Ok, get it.

But how is he going to let my pc CPU mine without me noticing the higher temperature, the higher noise the fans are going to make, and the general slowliness that will make me wonder immediately what's going on with my pc?

Id assume a bot-net would go for large offices/companies, where people would be unaware of the extra pc usage.

Large offices/companies wont have very powerful GPU's if any at all.

It would be easier to organise a CPU botnet than a GPU botnet, because i can farm large amount of CPU power from "large" companies, but with GPU i would have to gather from individuals, which would be harder.

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 19, 2015, 07:19:29 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 18, 2015, 10:26:01 PM

Quote from: Gladimor on January 18, 2015, 08:40:03 PM

Anyone think we should put together a community bounty fund for an improved GPU miner?

I'd rather pay for a true CPU only solution.

Impossible. What you CAN do, is make GPU simply not worth it. But it's a really stupid idea - botnets will then dominate the hashrate if your coin has any value.

EDIT: Shit, what am I saying, I'm better at CPU dev than GPU dev. Disregard my last. Cheesy

Please explain to me why CPU mining is prone to botnet subversion but GPU or ASIC mining is magically not.

If it's connected to the internet, it's hackable. CPU/GPU/ASIC makes no damn difference. If an attacker has control of your box, and your mining software, then they have control of your mining hardware too whatever that might be.

Exactly.

Also what I never understood is.... yeah I understand it's possible that someone makes my pc his bot and makes it spread emails or malware, without me noticing it immediately. Ok, get it.

But how is he going to let my pc CPU mine without me noticing the higher temperature, the higher noise the fans are going to make, and the general slowliness that will make me wonder immediately what's going on with my pc?

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: thelonecrouton on January 18, 2015, 10:26:01 PM

Quote from: Gladimor on January 18, 2015, 08:40:03 PM

Anyone think we should put together a community bounty fund for an improved GPU miner?

I'd rather pay for a true CPU only solution.

Impossible. What you CAN do, is make GPU simply not worth it. But it's a really stupid idea - botnets will then dominate the hashrate if your coin has any value.

EDIT: Shit, what am I saying, I'm better at CPU dev than GPU dev. Disregard my last. Cheesy

Please explain to me why CPU mining is prone to botnet subversion but GPU or ASIC mining is magically not.

If it's connected to the internet, it's hackable. CPU/GPU/ASIC makes no damn difference. If an attacker has control of your box, and your mining software, then they have control of your mining hardware too whatever that might be.

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Maybe we need a new sub forum on spreadcointalk, something for official merchandising related stuff... Spreadcoin identity, or what's the word I am looking for...

Marketing.
We don't have a subforum regarding marketing, lol... how could we forget.

EDIT:

now we have one: http://spreadcointalk.org/index.php?board=16

"Everything identity, design and marketing campaign related goes here. Creating awareness thru social media etc"

maybe eightspace you can express it in better english? thanks.

LitcoinCollector

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 06:42:34 AM

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 19, 2015, 06:10:41 AM

Quote from: georgem on January 15, 2015, 05:35:33 AM

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 15, 2015, 04:47:01 AM

I think we should make a page in Spreadcointalk with the vector logo, fonts etc, images etc. for people to use when designing stuff.

Awesome. Can you do that?

If you put everything together in a thread, I will put your thread in the "important links" section.

I made a PDF file in Illustrator (vector). I want to make a page in SpreadCoinTalk but how can I share this file? (imgur must be .jpg.)

Awesome work.

Well, did you register on spreacointalk.org? I can't see your name in the member list.

I will give you the ability to add attachments to your posts, since your work seems very media related.

PM me at the forum please.

Thanks man,

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Quote from: sammy007 on January 19, 2015, 06:31:48 AM

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 05:25:07 AM

Couldn't we prevent such a thing by simply not allowing the mining of more than one miner/port on the same IP? Should be easy to implement, right?
This should drive the investment cost for whales up quite a bit.

EDIT: No wait, getpeerinfo returns not just IPs from miners, but from wallets. So if we allowed only one wallet per IP we would run into all kinds of problems, like for example, two people in the same LAN wouldn't be able to transact with each other.

Better launch not mineable PoS shitcoin and masturbate on it's non-mineability.

Solo-mineable is not the same as non-mineable. ;-)

georgem

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1007

spreadcoin.info

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 19, 2015, 06:10:41 AM

Quote from: georgem on January 15, 2015, 05:35:33 AM

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 15, 2015, 04:47:01 AM

I think we should make a page in Spreadcointalk with the vector logo, fonts etc, images etc. for people to use when designing stuff.

Awesome. Can you do that?

If you put everything together in a thread, I will put your thread in the "important links" section.

I made a PDF file in Illustrator (vector). I want to make a page in SpreadCoinTalk but how can I share this file? (imgur must be .jpg.)

Awesome work.

Well, did you register on spreacointalk.org? I can't see your name in the member list.

I will give you the ability to add attachments to your posts, since your work seems very media related.

PM me at the forum please.

sammy007

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1003

Quote from: georgem on January 19, 2015, 05:25:07 AM

Couldn't we prevent such a thing by simply not allowing the mining of more than one miner/port on the same IP? Should be easy to implement, right?
This should drive the investment cost for whales up quite a bit.

EDIT: No wait, getpeerinfo returns not just IPs from miners, but from wallets. So if we allowed only one wallet per IP we would run into all kinds of problems, like for example, two people in the same LAN wouldn't be able to transact with each other.

Better launch not mineable PoS shitcoin and masturbate on it's non-mineability.

e1ghtSpace

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Crypto since 2014

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 19, 2015, 06:10:41 AM

Quote from: georgem on January 15, 2015, 05:35:33 AM

Quote from: LitcoinCollector on January 15, 2015, 04:47:01 AM

I think we should make a page in Spreadcointalk with the vector logo, fonts etc, images etc. for people to use when designing stuff.

Awesome. Can you do that?

If you put everything together in a thread, I will put your thread in the "important links" section.

I made a PDF file in Illustrator (vector). I want to make a page in SpreadCoinTalk but how can I share this file? (imgur must be .jpg.)

Unfortunately I don't know the answer but I do love how you've made "negatives" if you know what I mean.

Topic: [ANN] SpreadCoin | True Decentralization (No Pools) | Testing New Masternodes - page 256. (Read 810099 times)