[ANN] Tangible Cryptography suspends Bitcoin related transaction. - page 4.

opentoe

legendary

Activity: 1274

Merit: 1000

Personal text my ass....

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitco on June 03, 2013, 09:51:18 AM

It's silly, but for a different reason. If bitcoin is 'stored value' then the people who sold bitcoins to FC4B were all engaged in the business of money transmission, and the Virginia Corporation Commission should be investigating those thousands of people. I'd love to see how they construe that as protecting residents of the Commonwealth.

Exactly, They need to be going after miners, the people who create the coins or "store of value". I'm very glad AsicMiner is in the more reasonable capitalistic and libertarian country of China.

If they were in the USA I'm sure they would be raided by special forces and S.W.A.T. teams.

Man, the US must hate those people who have solar panels up paying for their electric. I wonder if they would try to sue the sun or proton particles? Has to be some money in there somewhere.

BCB

vip

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

BCJ

Escrow (unless you are an attorney) is money transmission also.

DannyHamilton

legendary

Activity: 3388

Merit: 4615

Question:

Given the fact that your "core business" has theoretically ceased operation...

Quote from: TangibleCryptography on December 08, 2012, 10:40:07 PM

Tangible Cryptography will no longer be handling escrows. As our core business continues to grow we feel it is best to focus our resources and time on that venture and streamline our operation by discontinuing activities outside our core business. We have asked the OP to remove our company name from the listing.

Thank You,

Staff

Tangible Cryptography LLC

Have you given any consideration to resuming offering escrow services temporarily until you get a formal response from the commission?

Aseras

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

I think it's unlikely that you will get a response at all, unless its a knock on the door by a swat team.

TangibleCryptography

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Tangible Cryptography LLC

Quote from: Unacceptable on June 13, 2013, 03:30:15 PM

Any news guys ?? Hope your back online soon Wink

Best of Luck!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: MSantori on June 13, 2013, 04:07:45 PM

I am also interested to hear the latest, if only out of professional curiosity.

We do not have a formal response from the commission at this time. It is unlikely any updates will be provided until we have a formal response either indicating that our activity does not require a license or that we must obtain a license.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: yellowcoin on June 14, 2013, 01:26:32 AM

website down.... maybe they losing it like btcpak....sigh...

The site being down is unrelated to this announcement, just bad timing. Our colocation provider is physically moving to a new larger datacenter something which has been planned for over a month now. Our server was inaccessible after the migration and it now appears they have "lost" our server. No customer information is at risk. We employ whole drive encryption and have encrypted offsite backups as well. There is no super admin or backdoor access to reset the admin password like has occurred at low cost VPS providers. We own the bare metal that our services are running on.

yellowcoin

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

website down.... maybe they losing it like btcpak....sigh...

MSantori

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

I am also interested to hear the latest, if only out of professional curiosity.

Unacceptable

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1001

Any news guys ?? Hope your back online soon Wink

Best of Luck!!!!!!!!!!

SuperTramp

legendary

Activity: 1073

Merit: 1000

Tangible Cryptography,

Sent you an email + a PM regarding an order I placed on June 1st.

TheButterZone

legendary

Activity: 3052

Merit: 1031

RIP Mommy

Yeah, it raised my eyebrow that the most favorable interpretation would be that buy, hold, sellers should be free and clear because they're not acting as a middleman like PP or WU between 2 other people, but with that kind of justice system, no innocents would ever be targeted...

MSantori

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

This is awful. Good luck you guys.

I've reviewed Virginia law for one of my bitcoin clients and it is very difficult to apply to a bitcoin transaction, or what I understand to be your business in general. Title 6.2, Chapter 19's definition of "money" is very broad, but they do not define "transmission" at all. Typically, transmission requires at least two customers in a transaction. You seem to only have one customer per transaction, so maybe they don't understand what it is you do.

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on June 07, 2013, 10:18:40 AM

It is something we are considering. Understand though that would essentially be us conceding the issue to the state of VA and we would then need to enforce mechanisms to block VA residents from using our service. It is utterly baffling that MSB/MT regulations at state levels haven't be challenged on interstate commerce grounds but we haven't found any case law to suggest they have. Of course it likely is only time before some other states move to "protect" their residents as well.

Easy enough to explain it: the slightly different, slightly quirky 50 state regulations act collectively as a barrier to entry in that market, requiring one to sink about a couple million dollars into nonsense papershuffling. The fiat world equivalent of MPEx's 30 BTC regfee, if you will; you don't have that capital to throw away, you're not old enough to play.

The parties with enough bankroll to challenge successfully are better served by taking advantage of the barrier than bringing it down. The parties without enough bankroll are welcome to go suck on a lemon.

(And before anyone gets all agitated about current politics: this is how the US has worked ever since original incorporation, a coupla hundred years ago.)

gweedo

legendary

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: MPOE-PR on June 05, 2013, 02:05:58 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

you weren't operating anonymously...?? rofl what a joke

As they say on the Internets, sir, the joke is upon thyself.

this is the type of mindset that only encourages the government to shut people down. if you can't bother doing the research on how to operate paypal accounts/bank accounts etc anonymously then you don't deserve to be using bitcoin. you only hurt yourself by exposing your identity, not anyone else. it's a form of self protection, nothing fraudulent.

It is actually the opposite. If your running a bitcoin business in the USA, then you should follow regulation, giving the government no reason to shut you down.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Quote from: Aseras on June 07, 2013, 09:53:56 AM

wouldn't it just be easier to move to another state or jurisdiction?

It is something we are considering. Understand though that would essentially be us conceding the issue to the state of VA and we would then need to enforce mechanisms to block VA residents from using our service. It is utterly baffling that MSB/MT regulations at state levels haven't be challenged on interstate commerce grounds but we haven't found any case law to suggest they have. Of course it likely is only time before some other states move to "protect" their residents as well.

BCB

vip

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

BCJ

While direction came from a state agency this is not a state issue. Direction is clearly coming down from the federal level. Almost all state will march in line.

Aseras

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 500

Quote from: TangibleCryptography on June 04, 2013, 01:41:35 PM

Quote from: JimCGSavings on June 04, 2013, 12:14:40 PM

OK, total newb here, but the U.S. IS the land of suit/countersuit. Couldn't Tangible Cryptography take steps to protect itself and any investors by seeking legal redress from the Commonwealth of Virginia for any loss or possible loss of income due to interference with its business on the basis of such a vague charge? Go on the offensive! Fight back! (grin)

Simple answer is no. The notice from the commonwealth only indicates we "may" be engaged unlicensed money transmission. There is only a demand to cease "if" we are engaged in activity which requires licensure. However it is prudent for us to stop at this time until we have clarity on the position of the government. At this point it is our intent to avoid an adversarial situation which likely will be costly and time consuming and instead open a dialog with the commission as Bitcoin is an emergent technology and based on the letter we believe they have some significant misunderstandings on how this technology works.

wouldn't it just be easier to move to another state or jurisdiction?

MPOE-PR

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 522

Quote from: ?? on ??

you weren't operating anonymously...?? rofl what a joke

As they say on the Internets, sir, the joke is upon thyself.

counter

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Time is on our side, yes it is!

Dang I was just about to use this site just been on the fence and now I can't. Sad

I'm sorry to hear about this nonsense it's truly laughable how destructive the feds are. It is good your taking this step by step and playing it safe as the feds are really good at picking on the little guy. I will be following this thread as I'm very curious what will come of all this. Hopefully the law prevails and leads to a smooth transition and getting back to business as usual.

rdponticelli

sr. member

Activity: 325

Merit: 250

Our highest capital is the Confidence we build.

Quote from: Severian on June 04, 2013, 04:29:29 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: TangibleCryptography on June 04, 2013, 01:41:35 PM

based on the letter we believe they have some significant misunderstandings on how this technology works.

You are too polite.

He's a good businessman. Wink

They don't even care how this technology works. Not in the slightest. They just want to take their cut and/or mainly to impose their restrictions onto it to continue their sovereignty over money... Undecided

Topic: [ANN] Tangible Cryptography suspends Bitcoin related transaction. - page 4. (Read 66745 times)