Topic: [ANN] the Internet of Coins - page 5. (Read 24828 times)

It was recorded with low lighting conditions, and indeed looks like the 90's, heh. The party was a lot of fun, and a lot of dutch cryptocurrency enthusiasts were there. If you are in Amsterdam, you should visit the place (Hofje van Wijs), it is a great place to have a drink and eat good food.

thanks for that

it had a circa 1990s look, when he said 6th birthday I said: "what? is this a recent vid, or is he just wrong?"  then I saw the date of upload ... oh

Ha! Found this:

http://www.youtube.com/v/n_D3-e2DW9E

From the bitcoin embassy... with love...  

Good idea. We'll put it on our whitepaper todo.

In principle all keys are required. We are still looking into the possibility of using threshold encryption methods, like M-of-N, but it may be possible to do without.

Either swarms will need to be duplicated to make sure there is fail-over for nodes that drop out, or we must recreate keys from the data that a certain amount of nodes of the swarm holds.

The current graphic for a transaction only shows the process in one direction. In reality both Alice and Bob are sending value to two wallets that are controlled by the swarm. These are swapped out, and handed to the opposite user as soon as the swarm has verified both their transactions.

You are right. Something to be corrected.

In the end, we want any user to be able to issue a hybrid asset. This creates diversity and many options for groups and users. For example, someone may create a hybrid asset comprised of all the alt-coins with animal names, and call it 'Animal Farm'. This user may employ bots to increase the liquidity of that hybrid asset, draw in market participants, and make it a very attractive hybrid to use when one wants to quickly convert value between Dogecoin, Piggycoin, Kittycoin and Flappycoin (R.I.P.?).

We are still deciding on whether or how to build a reputation system. The problem with reputation systems is that a Sybil attack can quickly render them useless. Perusing block-chain track records to build a kind of reputation representation may also work, but we have not decided on this.

Hybrid assets have a one-on-one relationship between value systems. When value in a hybrid asset is not synchronized it makes for an arbitrage opportunity. Multiple hybrid assets may have similar relationships between currencies, and thus other hybrids will be used to gain value from their arbitrage, pulling the value of the hybrid asset back into sync. (If a hybrid is a unique asset combination or has very little liquidity, the imbalance could remain. In that case, traders may choose to monetize on it using arbitrage via a federated gateway, or even centralized exchanges. In this case, however, traders are taking a risk, hoping to gain reward from their arbitrage.)

That's a fine lot of good questions, if you ask me.

To answer this in the meantime:

Yes. The only dependency is: there need to be other users available, otherwise no trades can be made of course.

We do not have any preferences and try to remain agnostic when it comes to valuesystems. Some offer innovation, some don't. Who are we to decide which ones you can use or not? We want to build tools for people to exchange value. By providing the system open source and expandable via modules, devs can hook up any exchange or coin they like.

Very interesting project, well done for the whitepaper

I've read the whitepaper and I have a few questions:

In page 3 I was very puzzled about how the multisig configuration would work and I imagined something similar to what I found later in section 10. Maybe it's a good suggestion to add a reference to section 10 for the explanation

In the combination of multisig, how many keys are required to unlock the value sent? All the keys of the swarm plus Alice or Bob? Or is this an M-of-N configuration to prevent missing nodes?
Are all the required keys in one swarm/group sent to another swarm/group as backup before being sent to the users?

I understand one user creates an address to send and the other user constructs the private key to access the funds on that address
Which keys (public/private from who Alice/Bob) are signing on each part of the transaction? The steps in the graph confused me a little bit although I like the actual graph, kudos for it.


In page 5:
There is a mention to an image that is missing in that page. I imagine this refers to the image that appears at the top of page 4, is this correct?


Who creates the hybrid asset and why should I care about a specific asset or trust the issuer compared to another one? Is there any reputation system?
Who and how we set the exchange price of the hybrid asset among chains?
This is the part that I can't completely click in my head: if, for example, I create asset X in Counterparty for the value of 1 BTC and the same asset in NXT for the value of 1 BTC and tomorrow the price of NXT duplicates, then the value of my hybrid asset X in NXT is twice more valuable than my asset X in Counterparty. How do I sell/buy these assets to other people interested in buying the appreciated NXT?


Legal disclosure
I'm not responsible for any mental harm caused to any human or animal produced while reading any of my possibly stupid questions.

So, basically, everyone can use this to do what best suits their needs? No dependance on what the other users are doing, and not limited by what the developers' preferences are?

The IoC hybridd should be structurally compatible with a wide variety of value systems. Even non-blockchain ones. However, which coins are 'grouped' will be up to the users in the future. This means you could create a hybrid asset that links only to PoW coins if you want to. You cannot stop others from mixing PoS and PoW on their issued assets. Just like the Internet contains many different kinds of webpages, we want to see the Internet of Coins host many different kinds of asset combinations.

I wonder how much time and money the development of such a project would require. It looks like there's been quite a bit of time and effort invested in this already.

I hope you'll succeed in developing this, it could be a very good thing for people like me who accidentally got into cryptocurrencies through questions from customers but have been hesitant to take many risks - the economy is not such that small businesses can afford to take many risks. I'm glad practical solutions to many of our concerns are under way. I find the idea of cryptocurrencies fascinating and certainly worth looking into. Projects like these could help convince other small, hesitant business owners to be more open to the idea. To be honest, I put off looking into it for quite a while because I didn't know what it was and found it all a little daunting (and making enough money to get by is tricky enough and taking up a lot of time as it is for most of us).  

I think what would greatly help many of us (speaking as a rather ignorant business owner) is user-friendly projects that minimize potential risks and this one looks promising.

Yes. Like with Bitcoin, Ethereum and other cryptocurrencies, the network has a failover mechanism. This means a transaction can be picked up by other members of a swarm in case of node failure, and incomplete transactions can be canceled (for negligible network fees).

OK, I'm reading the white paper. I am intrigued by this project. I envisioned a multicoin system in 2012 that arose out of the PoW vs PoS controversy.

Proof of Allocation seems to compete with Blockstream's Side Chains in resolving multichain synchronization. I do have a fundamental human rights issue with PoS and was wondering if an implementation of IoC can be structured to work purely with PoW coins?

Does 'a decentralized system of many nodes' also mean that the risks of the system failing or somehow losing money because of a lengthy transfer time are minimized?

Hi, Jelle here. I'm currently helping the IoC organisation with the more mathematical parts and technical bits.


Yes, this is true. The system will try to automatically find a way to convert from cryptocurrency X to cryptocurrency Y, using hybrid assets.
But this should be (mostly) hidden for the user. You just see: convert Doge to Flappy.


You don't have to rely on the services of a trusted third party. However, the exchange is going to be governed by a decentralised service consisting of many nodes. So this is similar in spirit to how Ethereum works.


I think the bit of the white paper you are referring to here, tries to say that decentralized services are better than centralized.


I'll leave this one to the others to answer :-)

Don't worry about asking "ignorant" questions, it's up to us to make the story as clear as possible. Every question is welcome, this way we can learn what need to be explained better. So keep asking :-)

I think this project sounds very interesting. If I understand correctly, anyone could pay me in any cryptocurrency, and I would not have to rely on the services of a third party to exchange anything? And this would in turn increase the security? How, exactly?

And doesn't this promote centralisation, if everyone uses this asset for their transactions?

I'm sorry if these questions are ignorant...I'm still new to the realm of cryptocurrencies.

We updated the opening post, and the whitepaper is now available on the website. If you have any comments, please let us know.
As also announced on Reddit

Edit: whitepaper thread added in the Altcoin section here.

We will release the whitepaper when the clock stops. The download button will be on the front page. Definitely let us know if you like it, but also feel free to tell us if you dislike it.

Also, if you're in Amsterdam today, we are having a whitepaper-release party on the occasion of the 6th anniversary of the Bitcoin blockchain.

The party will be held at 13:00 (CET/local time) in the Bitcoin Embassy Amsterdam. You're welcome to attend! -> http://bitcoinembassyamsterdam.nl/

I hope the whitepaper will be more than memes and bring something new to the table.

Nice to see what genuinely appears to be actual enthusiasm for this project.

If the system is user-friendly, then I'm very interested in your project.
Watching for more updates...