Topic: [ANN][BEE]BeeCoin - Launched/5 EXCHANGES - page 4. (Read 123096 times)

That sounds like xpm and cash also. Yeah we could do with a maths boffin to run through all the scenarios and tell us which will ensure highest probability of securing the chain whilst making it fair for people.
Maybe multi algo myriad style all merge minable with other currencies using the same algos

Darkcoin's block rewards are inversely proportional to the amount of hashrate on the network. The higher the hashrate, the lower the block rewards and vice versa. Something like this may also keep Asics away.

Seems to be out of fashion right now. However could be considered for sure if it was shown to be useful above and beyond other methods.

We really have to just weigh up the pros and cons i guess.

Let's try to get it correct the first time so we don't need to redo things again.

If the blocks were scaled a bit better so they don't drop to nothing so soon that could retain interest, so could POS.

Securing a block chain is really about to become a big issue for a lot of coins that are not prepared very soon.

What is cPOW?  i have seen it mentioned.

Also i have heard somehow one coin is implementing something where if a single miners speed exceeds a certain amount they only get rejects?

They may be already getting hammered but only by a few people with the those efficient miners... it'sactually worse than asics since you don't need to spend more money on hardware to get advantage. The reason why you use electricity and get less heat of course is because the card is not being maxed out.... and even at this level it may not be that efficient... I wonder if these efficient miners are available how much faster they can hash?

...any reason we haven't mentioned scrypt-N?

I think POS is the more important of the two also and I guess Soopy can advise how difficult it would be to add x11. If there are already ASIC's optimized for x11 then Darkcoin and Hirocoin will probably get hammered soon.

You're right....40% is a large number and it doesn't have to be that...I was just thinking large the first year to attract people to Beecoin and get them to hold their coins....5% seems low to me for the first year anyway.

X11 is in vogue right now, however there are lots of unknowns with this. Also i have seen mentioned a few times now that there are miners with optimised miners for x11 that are WAY more efficient than the ones everyone else has access to. This is like them having asics for x11 already in comparison if that is true.

I like x11 or qrk because really there isn't too much of a big deal between them. However i don't think it is as important as adding POS for security. If if is difficult to move to x11 i don't think it is worth the hassle. The majority of minting will actually be finished in a few weeks.

The main issue is securing the chain... we have checkpoints right now so can recover but still would be nice to have a stable secure chain.

I support beecoin because it was the first totally fair and clean launch i had seen, i had never seen something go so smooth and still have not.  Even the block target time was reached within just a few mins. It really was an amazing fair launch and has remained fair to be mined by anyone for weeks. I have left about 4mh on it full time.  However before we can really focus on projects for this coin we need to make sure we have a secure base to work from.

Yes i think perhaps merge mining with other coins could be a very nice way to go.... however to merge with doge or ltc you will have to attract a lot of merge miners and that will mean concentrating a lot of hash on one or 2 pools.

Pos is up until now an extra security measure for the chain, but if you have to give 40% interest that is reducing the value by 40%... ie  we need 40% more people to buy to retain the same value. This is not worth it i think.

Maybe 5% pos with more sensible block scaling either with scrypt or pos would be good.

After researching POS a little more, it seems my fears about it were unwarranted. I was worried about the coin being easier to exploit by a hacker with the added code but I am wrong. Some POS coins (Blackcoin) have been attacked and stolen from exchanges but it wasn't the coin at fault. It was the exchange.

I think adding POS to Beecoin is a good idea. It may keep miners from dumping them so cheaply, knowing they will grow their coin stash without mining. We just need to decide on a percentage of interest to award coin holders and at what intervals is it awarded. A first year 40% interest payment would be big enough to keep a lot of people from dumping the coin. It could decrease to 20% the second year and maybe 10% every year after until a set amount in circulation is reached. These are just numbers and they may be too big. I'm just throwing it out there.

I'm still all for adding x11 to Beecoin as well. It's supposedly much more power efficient and this will also attract miners. If they can increase their profit by cutting their power bills, it's a no brainer to mine this coin. If a miner is happy with his current profit level from Beecoin before the switch, after the switch he wouldn't have to sell as many coins to get the same profit he's getting now...thus letting him hold onto more coins to take advantage of POS interest. It's really a double bonus for miners. And like all other crypto coins, Beecoin needs miners too. The more miners, the higher the network hashrate. The higher the network hashrate, the more secure the network is.

As far as ASIC's go, it doesn't matter what algorithm is invented and applied to a coin, someone is eventually going to reverse engineer it and find a way to make it obsolete or of no consequence. I say jump on x11 now while it's fresh. A POS and x11 combo could really make this coin attractive imho...and it would be a first in the crypto world I believe.

I'm for scaling back the block rewards too if POS is implemented as John has mentioned...to 3/4 at least...more probably 1/2 the current amounts according to the reward schedule.

We need Soopy to weigh in on this to let us know if it's possible and if so, how much resources (time and money) does he need to do it. That is if we decide to go this route.


EDIT: A great little article on ASIC's, x11 and N

http://cryptocoinupdates.com/tag/x11/

At the same time, asic scrypt miners wouldn't bother with coins that aren't stable and have active developers and a strong community; so coins like BEE wouldn't be affected by the proliferation of asic scrypt miners. Remember, scrypt miners will focus on ROI so they will only point those miners at strong, active stable coins such as LTC for quite some time before they make jumps into other scrypt coins.

If you take into account the fact that x11 isn't really asic resistant, the fact that x11 miners aren't optimized hence the low heat and power and that there may be optimized miners not available to the public, the fact that most of the big blocks will be mined before scrypt asics will become the norm; then you can see why the change to x11 doesn't seem worth it at all. Difficulty will always skyrocket if and when the coin becomes popular and is picked up by more and more miners.

GPU miners will always experience decreased profitability the more popular and valuable a coin becomes and as the block rewards become less and less because of halving. No miner can expect to have continued and stable profits from mining alone, that's irresponsible; and no one in this thread can say they haven't had enough time and opportunity to mine and buy BEE while it's been at the bottom. What you're suggesting is to keep GPU miners profitable for as long as the block rewards allow, and then what? Abandon the coin when GPU miners can no long turn a good profit? This shouldn't be what cryptocurrencies is about and that would only be following the sea of shitcoins released daily on these boards.

Right now we have such an insecure blockchain that it isn't even funny. I think that making BEE merge mine-able with coin such as LTC and DOGE might be a good direction to take to benefit from a more secure blockchain. Does anyone else feel that staying scrypt, adding POS and changing the block reward scaling to account for POS plus making BEE merge mine-able is a better direction to take BEE in for the long term?

Sure, it won't ruin the good scrypt coins with active developers and a sstrong community.
What will[/] happen is that difficulty of those coins is going to skyrocket to the point where GPU miners can't affort to pay their power bills.

That's why GPU miners need X11, or another alternative algo.

To a miner, all that matters is profitability. Mining coins at a loss or a small gain is stupid, because it's so much less hassle to just turn the rig off and BUY coins instead.

Interesting , yes along with the fact a lot of the big blocks will be mined by the time asics really proliferate so gpus will have had a good run by then.

However altering the block scaling or else adding pos would seem to make sense.

If the swap to x11 was simple then that would be something of interest. However the fact their could be far more optimised miners out there is worrying.

I was originally interested in the change to x11 algo, but now I'm not so sure.

It seems x11 isn't immune to asics and I've read from a few competent members that the reason it uses less electricity is because the miner is unoptimized and there's a very big possibility that there is an optimized miner that has not been released to the public (or there might be somewhere down the line). This doesn't bode well for those of us that mine on our spare time from our gaming machine like myself (gaming laptop no less lol).

Now about the resistance to asics, at first I thought that asics would ruin scrypt coins; but now I've rethought my stance and think asics will just help secure scrypt blockchains by providing increased hash power. There are already some scrypt asics that have been out for a little while now, Gridseed miners from hash-master.com. While the Gridseed miners aren't terribly powerful, they do provide a substantial savings in power. 360KH/s at only 7W (you can also decide to mine scrypt and sha-256 at the same time but that bumps the power usage to 60W). These little guys have been out for about 2 months now, can run off a RaspberryPi and a powered USB hub and even run cool in scrypt only mode without a fan which means you could potentially leave them running 24/7 completely unattended without the fear of having them overheat. Obviously, scrypt miners will get better and more powerful as time goes on, so these little guys are only the first step.

Now, x11 asics will eventually be made if x11 becomes as popular as scrypt has, coupled with the idea that there might be an optimized miner that we do not yet have access to (now or later) makes me wonder if changing to x11 is the right choice. I'm starting to think that sticking with scrypt, adding POS and/or change the block reward scaling might be the right choice for BEE.

If soopy can chime in with his more opinion I'd love to hear his ideas about all this.

Miners are still selling BEECOINS for peanuts!

We need to hear from the current dev, he may need more donations. Crypto-currencies are expensive to launch.

I'm for changing the algo... i don't know what to say abt reward scaling and pos... abt this u have more competences than me to take a good decision...
Thank you!

We need to change block scaling, to about 3/4 block reward, then 1/4 block reward, then POS

x11 and change block scaling to lengthen mining interest or add POS to x11?

I have not seen any coins combine x11 and pos as yet...so i wonder why that is.

I'm all for x11. It would go well with saving the bees as it consumes less electricity so it helps save the planet.

Let's bee active here.


So far... soopy has created the new source and added some checkpoint servers, and can compile the windows QT.... this is in progress.  We now have the ability to create mac, linux android wallets. However if we are going to change algo or even to add pos there is no point currently paying people to create these services if we are going to change again in the coming days.

The next part  we need to decide on so sopoy knows what we want next. We need to weight up the pros and cons though.


1. Do we stay scrypt and add POS - for extra security and additional incentive to hold beecoins?

2. Do we stay scrypt only and change block reward scaling so that miners still have incentive to mine in the coming months?

3. Do we wish to change to x11 algo for prevention against scrypt asics?

4. Do we wish to change to x11 algo with POS - same reasons for adding pos to scrypt?

5. Do we go x11 and change block scaling.........same reasons as changing block scaling to scrypt?


Now, switch algo to x11 is not so simple so we have to understand that. Also by the time these changes are implemented the largest blocks will already be mined out so even then scrypt asics will not really be raping the coin because blocks will already be worth a lot less.


We need to take all of these things into consideration.


Only about 6 people have really commented as yet regarding these changes, really we need more feedback because once this takes place there is no going back.  There are a lot of variables to play with so really we need to make the right choice. 

If you have a selection please say why you think that selection is the best idea... or if you have an even better idea then please post it.

excellent points you make here...

However what is it about the POS that makes you unsure?  As the block rewards decrease the profit may decrease and mining interest drops? also POS+POW is supposed to secure the chain far better than POW alone. So even if we go x11 i think if we keep the same block scaling we will maybe need POS. However we could change the block scaling and make it more smooth so mining interest does not drop off.