Topic: [ANN][BURST] Burst | Efficient HDD Mining | New 1.2.3 Fork block 92000 - page 580. (Read 2171057 times)

The plots are written during the plotting process, afterwards they are only being read so there would be no wear&tear of the SSD. However, since SSDs speed doesnt really matter for burst minig it is better to use regular HDDs.

Distributed storage is on the roadmap, but far in the future. I suppose you could talk to the dev about it

Wow... Impressive... I may get into this, but at the current moment I don't have much storage space to spare....

Now it says HDD mining... Ik SSDs are similar to HDDs, but they have a finite number of writes before they fail. How well do they hold up to this? Are the plots constantly being written and rewritten?

Do the devs have any plans to adapt this to be of use? Because right now all I see is diska space being used up, but not being used.

I may get a team together, or inform the right people (I know a dev whod be interested) and see if we can adapt this to be used as a decentralized storage server. That is unless this dev team is already planning on going that way, if that's the case I'll step off.

With some versions of gpu mining , the miner and pool negotiate (or rather, the pool instructs the miner) what is considered a deadline worthy of consideration. So a really slow miner will be allowed to send small deadlines, while a really fast miner will have a higher threshold reg. what to send.

This should result in a reduced traffic, but still enough samples to figure what the power of the miner is.

Given the custom deadline limit sent to the miner, and the nonces returned, the pool should be able to figre an estimate as to how much plot file has been plotted, and thus, what share of found blocks to allocate.

for instance of one miner negotiates a minimum of 1000 and another a minimum of 10000 then you could "just" calculate each of the sub 1000 nonces you get with the same weight as the number of sub 10000 nonces that you would've gotten if you had allowed them to be transferred.

Not sure i make myself clear, but i hope this might be of inspiration for perhaps a new miner protocol down the line - you should be able to create miner and pool that is pretty much totally fair, esp if you calculate the estimated plot size over a reasonable number of blocks.

If things are dynamic enough the pool could even hike the proof-of-work difficulty to reduce traffic, and just compensate in the calculations. So you could have the pool run at a relatively stable traffic burden.

You would of course have to code both miner and pool part of such a negotiation protocol, but pehaps you can be very much inspired by scrypt pool source.

I've got nearly 50TB mining, of which i have bought 40TB just for that purpose. I get 5 to 7 blocks or so on average on a good day, so there is plenty of blocks to go around, given there is a new one every 4 minutes.  I only get half an hour of the day lol

If you don't have many terabytes, just use a pool, with a pool you won't need that much to start getting paid - i don't know what is too little though. You don't want it all to end up in fees (1 burst for every transfer)  When I started out, i solomined my first block with just spare disk space and a lot of patience, long before i bought the 40TB

it has taken a lot of time to build a reliable farm, and the disks went online slowly as they got plotted and as i figured how to do stuff, still, between 17/09/2014 and now, i have mined 99 blocks, and gotten me 900K+ burst for the trouble. This has already paid several of the disks on paper at least (i haven't cashed any burst in yet, only spent some for giving away , donating and fountains)

Beware that block reward go down 5% each month, so over the lifetime of a harddisk, the payout in burst will go down steeply. Price might go up, though, negating that effect. I will try to hold on to most of my burst until we're finished mining.

If mining seems to be too much of a burden, just go buy burst at an exchange. Unless we run out of developers, this ought to be a pretty good candidate for one of the winner altcoins.

yeah I understand your point, to make it simple : (accountId+NonceNum) == ActualNonce, so statistically for (1 + 1000) which is single account with large nonce would be equal to (1000+1) which is 1000 accounts with small nonce, so it would be better to choose (1000+1) since 1000 account with bad deadline (which no problem because of no deadline limit) would be added up into cumulative reward.

but the actual calculation does not end up there, there are some "distribution window" which is when pool found a block, the reward is distributed into past-blocks allocation and future-blocks allocation, what I am trying to do with this is, to get some "averaging" so that if you have large variance on deadline you still get low reward because on average your scores still bad, but if your variance is good (which is low) the reward is high.

now if we try to use 1000 accounts with small plots, all those 1000 accounts will have high variance on deadlines, and what i am to achieve with curve is, if we summed up all of those 1000 accounts reward it would be less or equal than 1 account with low variance

i know its complicated and i can't really proof it if it works, i am open for suggestion if anyone have better idea, the point i want to achieve is :

if possible we shouldn't need deadline limit, because we are using pool to reduce variance, no matter how small your plot, you want to get stable earning, even if its very small, if we have deadline limit the payout will be irregular because in most of the blocks your deadline will be higher than limit and it does not counted

and then if we does not use deadline limit, miners can just send all nonce they have and pool would be dead to verify all of those nonces, so we do need deadline limit (which what dev-pool did) or we just say it each account can only send one of their best nonce (which what my pool did)

and then we have a problem again, what happen if miners would just create a lot of account with small plot for each of those account, so each of the account can send its best nonce, by doing this they can summed up their total earning.

up to now, my solution is to use averaging, you are rewarded by your average best nonces up to 100 blocks, by doing this miner would only need to send one of their best nonce per block which will reduce computation on pool and (should) reduce traffic, and also very small capacity miners still be counted up every block for any deadline they have



illustration of what i am trying to achieve, total reward of 5 accounts still be lower than single account because single account would have better average best deadline

I can help with that, conceptually.

The nonce will be hashed a lot, with the prior block and your burst address and the 4096 nonces it is in a group with, and the resulting number is pretty random, and unique for your account for that nonce. This number is then divided by basetarget and the resulting number is the deadline. So you need a pretty low number to begin with, even though the basetarget is in the low millions.

There might be some rounding or discarding of bits, but above is the gist of it, as i understand it.

So the more nonces (the larger plots) the higher the chance that you can find a low number. Only the lowest of all nonces on all computers wins a given block, so your chance of getting a given block is practically your_plot_size / total_plot_size_of_all_who_mine_right_now

Of course if you join a pool, you join forces with lots other ppl and the pool will win blocks often, and share them using some sort of reward scheme (differs between pools how this is done)

Sooooo... I just looked at the first post and all, so sorry if I missed it...
But wouldn't someone with a spare data server layin around with 10+ TB of space have a huge advantage? Or other large data-storage entities, like Google for example?

This is an interesting idea for a coin, but it seems easy for someone with huge storage to manipulate this. Who needs an ASIC when you can buy several ginormous HDDs? LOL

Hello
There have been changes on the SG Uray pool?
My payments have never been as bad as the last 6 days, even when I had less hdd.
I win 3 times less than the number of blocks I find.
The diff has not yet increased.
I am the only one to notice a decrease in performance?

In this context, the details of the mining calculation themselves aren't that important, it's just that it takes substantial time to look up and process that many plots.  Knowing that you almost certainly have the best deadline means that you can get a jump start on that process.

Thanks for the thoughts about where to go next.  I may take a crack at writing an explanation about ASIC resistance at some point.

Thanks! BURST-JKNG-PNZA-SSTY-46H3B . It seems to be working the same signature as shown on your site so I guess all good.

That's correct, it means your submission went through, now just wait for the four confirms and you're good to go! Send me your burst address and I will give you the 1500 burst I was giving to newcomers a while back

Go to http://localhost:8125/index.html and you should see your dashboard, things should get clearer then

I've setup for your site and I think it's working but where your instructions say wait for 4 blocks to confirm I have a webpage up http://localhost:8125/burst with a long line of text and that's it.  Will more lines appear with each block or have I done something wrong?

More merchandise is always good, there were some nice pics/concepts a few pages back.

As for crypto internals, I believe HDD mining is a bigger "selling" point. Thats what led me to this coin, I only realized the other benefits later.

Hi again!
After finally working out where my Burst went yesterday I decided it would be best to store it back on the exchange so I transferred it back.

Just my luck, something seems to have gone wrong again :-



It would seem to have gone through ok and then it doubles up with no confirm?

I still don't understand how the deadline is calculated.. the infographic in the first post seems to indicate how plots are made.  I only vaguely understand how they are later utilized though to do the mining.


I know someone in Nxt who very much wanted to work on blockchain trimming and has done some research there.. but I believe also wasn't sure how possible it was after some discussions.  I don't know how loyal to Nxt he is and also I know that Nxt is paying him a salary to program.  But if we could get enough money to pay him, he'd be very nice to have on board. Will talk to him.

Couple other projects that I discussed with burstcoin, but am not ready to publicly discuss yet.  Nxt's marketplace isn't doing great.. if we could come up some unique selling points there, might be able to steal away that market share and get the network effect working for us.

Also merchandise would be nice. Would be nice to sell stickers and bumper stickers for example.  Some study showed that a bumper sticker is worth ~$100 in marketing per year.  Maybe we're not there yet but anything to help improve the viral effect is good.

I also agree that more exchanges would be very nice.. we hit Bter and we're going up big time.. that being said, I'd prefer to get more coders on board before this happens.  Chinese(and other language) translations would also be nice for appealing to people in their native language.

Some interesting thoughts on ASIC resistance:
http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/2ly00a/how_important_is_asic_resistance_for_a_crypto/

If someone could write up an article explaining why Burst is ASIC resistant to people who don't understand all the internals of crypto.. might be very good for attracting attention to Burst.

And an interesting article on how to defeat network effects, such as Bitcoin's:
http://www.businessinsider.com/network-effects-2011-5

One thing that I think would be nice that has helped Ripple, is that anywhere you can spend Bitcoins, you can spend Ripples due to their BTC bridge.

What about you? What do you think are important projects?

Come on, we're nearly at 1000 votes on hitbtc!!!

We are in the voting list on 3 more exchanges :

https://hitbtc.com/vote
https://bter.com/voting
https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/

I think that now its the perfect time to see BURST on other exchanges too .... this way we will have a better distrubution of the coins and more buy power .

Most of the time, the attacker is going to get the best deadline on a fork, at least initially, particularly with no "Nothing at Stake" advantage, so it would make sense for an attacker to start calculating for the next fork as soon as his own best deadline is calculated.


I'd love to hear your opinions about the highest priority extensions needed in burst and the burst ecosystem.

After spending a week or so looking into it, and buying a bunch of them, here's why I think Burst has a lot of potential:

- Truly decentralized unlike Ripple or BitShares
- Very low power unlike Proof of Work
- The blockchain can be trimmed, unlike Proof of Stake.  This is because Proof of Stake relies on the blockchain to prove a forger would have the resources required to be able to trim the blockchain.. if a coin achieves Visa level transaction rates, we're talking 40+TB per year that need to be stored. This is a barrier for new people to get on board if they have to download hundreds of TB of data just to check the blockchain or start forging. Yet Burst uses approximately the same amount of electricity.
- ASIC resistant, unlike Litecoin or most of these new ASIC resistant protocols that are only 'ASIC resistant' because they are new enough that they haven't been cracked yet
-'Fairly distributed' - I really don't care but a lot of people do as evidenced by attacks against Nxt.  It is true that other than some exchanges, very few accounts have more than a million Burst.  This is a very nice distribution for people who believe it's important: http://burstcoin.eu/charts/account-balance-distribution
-Power of Nxt Asset Exchange and Marketplace

Disadvantages:
- We really need to get more than one programmer on board.. I think that before advertising to the general public we should try to snag the programmers of other cryptos, or at least get them somewhat invested.  Maybe there is someway we could start collecting community funds to be used for development?  Allow miners to optionally donate a piece of their block rewards or people sending transactions can choose to send up to 5% of the transaction fee to a different address, encouraging them to donate to those helping develop the coin or market for it, etc?
- Hasn't stood the test of time yet
- Lots of competitors