Decided to sponsor a round of tribia in JD every time somebody makes an order and pays with CLAM on my site. Best time to order? Evenings.
(Disclaimer: I will still try like hell to answer a question correctly during the round.)
Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 195. (Read 1151369 times)
December 14, 2015, 07:32:48 PM
December 14, 2015, 05:27:32 PM
Although it doesn't concern CLAM development, it is likely worth mentioning the 'President of the United States' set of CLAMour petitions.
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
can you add vermin supreme under 3rd parties?
December 14, 2015, 05:27:01 PM
Although it doesn't concern CLAM development, it is likely worth mentioning the 'President of the United States' set of CLAMour petitions.
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
I'm not sure whether to add those to the /clamour list or to consider them in the same category as "dog humping own mouth".
December 14, 2015, 05:25:34 PM
Hi guys,
can you add petition e2ef93da (Postpone digging into the future) to the http://txti.es/clamour (Not sure who has the rights to do that, so I am posting it here)
Its alternative to "Remove digging" and would be nice, that "5afa074c" voters would be informed about this option. I hope that some of them may rethink their vote.
can you add petition e2ef93da (Postpone digging into the future) to the http://txti.es/clamour (Not sure who has the rights to do that, so I am posting it here)
Its alternative to "Remove digging" and would be nice, that "5afa074c" voters would be informed about this option. I hope that some of them may rethink their vote.
I just added it. For multi-line petitions I'm just putting the first line with [...] to indicate there's more if you click the link.
December 14, 2015, 05:10:27 PM
Although it doesn't concern CLAM development, it is likely worth mentioning the 'President of the United States' set of CLAMour petitions.
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
this is awesome, voted
December 14, 2015, 03:16:27 PM
Although it doesn't concern CLAM development, it is likely worth mentioning the 'President of the United States' set of CLAMour petitions.
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
The more protected political speech on the chain, the more resilient we could potentially be in terms of legal challenges.
http://txti.es/potus2016
December 14, 2015, 06:17:40 AM
Hi guys,
can you add petition e2ef93da (Postpone digging into the future) to the http://txti.es/clamour (Not sure who has the rights to do that, so I am posting it here)
Its alternative to "Remove digging" and would be nice, that "5afa074c" voters would be informed about this option. I hope that some of them may rethink their vote.
can you add petition e2ef93da (Postpone digging into the future) to the http://txti.es/clamour (Not sure who has the rights to do that, so I am posting it here)
Its alternative to "Remove digging" and would be nice, that "5afa074c" voters would be informed about this option. I hope that some of them may rethink their vote.
December 14, 2015, 03:06:17 AM
How about a suicide Clamour. The Clamour would say something like:
All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
Go ahead and make it for fun and experience. Couldn't be worse than the Clamour petition that is simply a link to a gif of a dog fucking its own face. (# eff96b06 has the support of 0.15% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/eff96b06 [nsfw])All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
Hell, make it a piece of artwork in a modern art museum.
December 14, 2015, 01:26:16 AM
How about a suicide Clamour. The Clamour would say something like:
All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
Go ahead and make it for fun and experience. Couldn't be worse than the Clamour petition that is simply a link to a gif of a dog fucking its own face. (# eff96b06 has the support of 0.15% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/eff96b06 [nsfw])All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
Hell, make it a piece of artwork in a modern art museum.
December 13, 2015, 11:40:43 PM
My reindexing is at block 492713 so far.
The bug caused the digsupply to be calcuated as 318278.44073566 at that block; after fixing the bug it is 320668.67226472
That's an error of 100 * (320668.67226472 - 318278.44073566) / 320668.67226472 = 0.745%, so nothing major. I expect the percentage error will end up being smaller, because "curious" always dig his outputs in separate transactions (one dig per tx) and so the bug won't have shown up for any of his digs.
The bug caused the digsupply to be calcuated as 318278.44073566 at that block; after fixing the bug it is 320668.67226472
That's an error of 100 * (320668.67226472 - 318278.44073566) / 320668.67226472 = 0.745%, so nothing major. I expect the percentage error will end up being smaller, because "curious" always dig his outputs in separate transactions (one dig per tx) and so the bug won't have shown up for any of his digs.
After catching up with the longest chain:
"blocks" : 771925,
"digsupply" : 823174.55351186, <-- old version
"digsupply" : 825790.45237218, <-- new version
So only 568 digs were missed, out of a total of 179307.
That's an error of 0.317%, and there are 2615.89886032 more CLAMs in the active supply than we previously thought. Sorry about that!
December 13, 2015, 10:59:30 PM
Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
The CLAMs would have to go back in time to before the snapshot, the equivalent of oysters going forward in time.
December 13, 2015, 10:46:03 PM
How about a suicide Clamour. The Clamour would say something like:
All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
All Clams will be removed. Digging and staking will cease.
This would make all clams unspendable. It could be done by changing the code.
Would this create an existential loop? Can clams vote for their own demise? Once the clams are all gone does their vote sill count?
I'm not one to participate in political causes so maybe somebody else could do it.
December 13, 2015, 10:31:37 PM
I cannot believe I have just found out about this. I really need to check my old addresses.
Better hurry up before we vote you out of the inn.
December 13, 2015, 09:53:49 PM
Is it a good time to be buying Clams, any opinions on the matter?
Absolutely. We are in a manufactured shakeout right now - the buy walls came down to allow the coin to reach a 'worst case' price floor - when they go back up expect 500K very quickly.
December 13, 2015, 09:38:48 PM
Is it a good time to be buying Clams, any opinions on the matter?
December 13, 2015, 09:28:54 PM
At one time, did this display show the combined votes, IE such that the top part did equal 100% of the votes? Maybe I'm dreaming...
I'm not sure but I think the original display only showed the unique combinations so that would indeed sum to 100% (if including abstain). Now it is broken down by each individual petition, which obviously doesn't sum to 100%.
Right.
The list of weights is used directly as an input to the JD wallets to tell them how to stake. Lines beginning with '#' are comments, ignored by the CLAM client.
I didn't used to include the comments, and only invluded the unique combinations (which sum to the size of the bankroll, in satoshis). I added the per-petition percentages since people requested them.
December 13, 2015, 09:00:55 PM
At one time, did this display show the combined votes, IE such that the top part did equal 100% of the votes? Maybe I'm dreaming...
I'm not sure but I think the original display only showed the unique combinations so that would indeed sum to 100% (if including abstain). Now it is broken down by each individual petition, which obviously doesn't sum to 100%.
December 13, 2015, 08:06:10 PM
xploited discovered recently that the client's tracking of the total amount dug up has been wrong ever since it started tracking. Not very wrong, but still wrong.
So all the charts I've posted have slightly underestimated the "digsupply".
I've reported (#263) and fixed (#264) the bug, and am now reindexing my copy of the blockchain to find out exactly how big the error is.
It turns out that whenever a single transaction dug multiple outputs from the same block, only one output from each block was counted.
My reindexing is at block 492713 so far.
The bug caused the digsupply to be calcuated as 318278.44073566 at that block; after fixing the bug it is 320668.67226472
That's an error of 100 * (320668.67226472 - 318278.44073566) / 320668.67226472 = 0.745%, so nothing major. I expect the percentage error will end up being smaller, because "curious" always dig his outputs in separate transactions (one dig per tx) and so the bug won't have shown up for any of his digs.
So all the charts I've posted have slightly underestimated the "digsupply".
I've reported (#263) and fixed (#264) the bug, and am now reindexing my copy of the blockchain to find out exactly how big the error is.
It turns out that whenever a single transaction dug multiple outputs from the same block, only one output from each block was counted.
My reindexing is at block 492713 so far.
The bug caused the digsupply to be calcuated as 318278.44073566 at that block; after fixing the bug it is 320668.67226472
That's an error of 100 * (320668.67226472 - 318278.44073566) / 320668.67226472 = 0.745%, so nothing major. I expect the percentage error will end up being smaller, because "curious" always dig his outputs in separate transactions (one dig per tx) and so the bug won't have shown up for any of his digs.
December 13, 2015, 07:02:24 PM
But Petiton:5afa074c for remove digging has currently the strongest support (36.65% on just-dice).
It's 36.65% of the actively voting shares on Just-dice. 18.7% of all shares.
No, you have that backwards.
it's 36.65% of the whole Just-Dice weight.
50% of the Just-Dice weight didn't cast a vote.
So it's around 73% of the actively voting weight.
ie. 3 out of 4 of the weight that voted for anything voted to stop digging.
To see this, check https://just-dice.com/misc/clamour_weights.txt - here's a recent version with the numbers made more readable, and with non-5afa votes deleted:
Quote
559,190.49019643 49.04% of the Just-Dice.com bankroll abstains from supporting any petition
0.01502096 5afa074c e2ef93da ea06c089 ff839af9
1,090.49167022 02fde4a4 066b223d 5afa074c 7a69a853 ea06c089 eff96b06 ff839af9
3,808.15882920 5afa074c ea06c089 ff839af9
8,657.26219872 5afa074c ff839af9
10,124.50477201 5afa074c 7a69a853 ff839af9
17,614.46605075 5afa074c ea06c089
34,914.56979870 02fde4a4 5afa074c ea06c089 ff839af9
47,721.12550031 5afa074c 7a69a853
131,975.98013010 5afa074c 7a69a853 ea06c089 ff839af9
164,747.32557619 5afa074c
560k didn't vote, representing ~50% of the total
1090 + 3808 + 8657 + 10124 + 17614 + 34914 + 47721 + 131975 + 164747 = 421k votes for 5afa, representing ~37% of the total.
Ahh, I was looking at this, and assumed
the top percentages equaled 100%, They're actually more then 100% because you can vote for multiple Clamour's. At one time, did this display show the combined votes, IE such that the top part did equal 100% of the votes? Maybe I'm dreaming... # 5afa074c has the support of 37.20% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/5afa074c
# ff839af9 has the support of 28.28% of the Just-Dice bankroll : https://gist.github.com/Kefkius/88e2a1a5c965f4be83e9
# ea06c089 has the support of 20.39% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/ea06c089
# 7a69a853 has the support of 18.79% of the Just-Dice bankroll
# 02fde4a4 has the support of 5.52% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/02fde4a4
# 0000cb61 has the support of 1.63% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/0000cb61
# 066b223d has the support of 1.18% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/066b223d
# e2ef93da has the support of 0.68% of the Just-Dice bankroll
# 694c26a6 has the support of 0.49% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/694c26a6
# c9328886 has the support of 0.49% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/c9328886
# eff96b06 has the support of 0.15% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/eff96b06
# deaddea1 has the support of 0.10% of the Just-Dice bankroll : http://txti.es/deaddea1
55401113072445 48.59% of the Just-Dice.com bankroll abstains from supporting any petition
December 13, 2015, 06:27:36 PM
There is not easy mobility between countries, nor can you create new countries easily, so the analogy is false. You can change your ownership of a coin with the click of a mouse, or fork a repo with a different click.
Well you could take that analogy to mean that. But essentially you are saying that you are not interested in CLAM changing in any way, so if anyone wants to change anything about the coin they need to leave? I get that you have an opinion. But a lot of us really like CLAM and want it to get better. Why start from scratch when you have something amazing already with just some imperfections?I see it as a bunch of gamblers trying to protect there value nothing else.
I get this argument, and I'm sure there are many on the side of "stopping digging" that are supporting it purely out of self-interest. However, there are others of us who see it as a way to strengthen CLAM and remove the uncertainty that will haunt this coin forever until changed. If I was voting for stopping digging just for my own wallet I would say lets do it tomorrow. Or how about we invalidate all coins dug after I got mine. But I'm saying nothing like that at all. I'm saying lets have set a date at least 6 months or 1 year in the future and put a block number for a cutoff to stop digging. This will cause a renewed interest in the coin and renewed evangelism as everyone tells their friends to triple check those addresses. Then after that date, no more worries of clam tanking by some previously unknown force. CLAM owners will be able to make their own fate and not have it thrown to the wind.Better to vote for the progress you want to see with clam http://txti.es/clamour
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