Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 193. (Read 1151369 times)

navaman makes a really interesting point when you think about it. The requirement that voters own property (the male requirement is irrelevant to my point) may have been an implementation of a Proof-of-Stake model. Owning property is akin to having a stake in the future of a country, since your property would be worth less if the country does terribly. So really, it kind of fits together, albeit not completely.

I just checked, and it appears that the default ports for testnet have changed since the last official release.

I've updated the wiki page, but to fix it I think the following should work:

1) cct stop (stop testnet before messing with the ports)

2) edit clam.conf to have this instead of the existing addnode lines:

port=35714
rpcport=35715
addnode=54.247.189.77:35714
addnode=khashier.com:35714

3) cct (start testnet on the new ports)

telnet connected, so I don't think it's a firewall. Also, I do have 13 connections on the mainnet from my ip address. (It's a vps.)

I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks again for the pointers.

So, if navaman's gripe is with mods on JD, seems like he posted in the wrong thread.

You can easily create a Clamour petition by withdrawing from JD to an off-site address with even a .001 Clam withdrawal. Follow the instructions and put the create clamour command in the Clamspeech field on the JD withdraw box.

Chuck is a chatmod on just-dice that apparently muted navaman and navaman feelt censored.

Can someone give me the two sentences version of who's Chuck why does navaman say he's censored?

Also, navaman, I can help you to run the clam client, it's not that hard.  Just ask questions here or in PM or in JD chat if you're stuck.  What went wrong?

Please delete, censor, moderate, or otherwise spare readers from the Chuck cult.

At least edit.

I see no evidence of that IP attempting to connect to the network.

Could it be that you have a firewall that is blocking your connection attempt?

You need to be able to make connections to port 35714 on remote hosts.

As https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/wiki/Testnet says:

    The P2P network connects on port 35714, instead of 31174.

You can try using 'telnet' to check whether you can connect:


If I pick a different (wrong) port it tries but never connects:

No it is not similar. One system requires voter registration whereas the other has no inherent notion of identities or individual accounts. They're as different as chalk and cheese.

The term “petition” is semantically misleading in this context as it implies the existence of an authority able to grant the petitioner's request; no such authority can exist in a peer-to-peer networked cryptocurrency BY DEFINITION. This leads me to conclude that the approach itself rests on profoundly flawed assumptions and is unlikely to serve the advertised purpose.

There are other approaches that are suitable but I have rather a different model of the task, so it's moot whether they have any relevance to the specific context of what's intended to be achieved by the CLAMS petition approach.

Cheers

Graham

doesn't work
http://piccash.net/32610/579135/

Yes, this is the problem. I have 0 connections. I've tried adding the nodes you suggested. I've also tried restarting the testnet without the mainnet running, but still no connections. My ip is 172.246.252.93 if that helps.

I wrote something similar here: https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/issues/257

Yes, it should be.

Try these two. The 2nd will probably complain that the node is already added.

    $ cct addnode khashier.com add
    $ cct addnode 54.247.189.77 add

You can also:

    $ cct addnode 74.207.230.61 onetry

to ask it to try one more time to connect.

Check how many peers you are connected to:

    $ cct getconnectioncount

Ask for details of the connections:

    $ cct getpeerinfo

and make sure you have the addnode=54.247.189.77 in your testnet/clam.conf file. Also, add another line in there as well:

    addnode=khashier.com

I don't know if your post will be deleted. Some of it seems on topic, but some of it doesn't. I thought your comparison of stakeholder-voting to property-owner-voting was interesting, so I used it to start a separate thread in the Politics subforum.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/restricting-voting-to-stakeholders-1301042

Thanks for the help. I do now have clam running on both the mainnet and testnet. (It's very helpful that I can run both.) The testnet isn't downloading blocks:


Should it be?

I feel like I've seen that whole thing before. Didn't you post it here and get replies already?

I think I told you then how to create a petition.

I have a crappy satellite Internet connection, and I am able to keep Bitcoin and CLAM clients synced. If your DSL connection is really that bad you can run clamd on a remote server, which you can get pretty cheaply.

You don't have to use BitTorrent to download the bootstrap.dat file. You can download it directly over HTTP if you like. There's a link in this post:

    https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9772191

No, really, don't delete this post.  Chuck may be in favor of censorship but you don't have to be.  This is not a rant against a person.  I want this added as a petition to Clamour.  I can't download and run the client on my PC so how am going to create a petition?  I can't do that from the withdrawal on JD can I?

There needs to be an advisory in an anonymous way for people to register their dissatisfaction with how speech is handled in the community.  Anybody here is can be muted or banned by getting on the wrong side of Chuck or any mod.  The most important factor is that Clam largely derives its value from JD with many people making substantial investments along side Dooglus.  The actions of Dooglus, Deb and their mods directly affect the value of this crypto.  JD is a private enterprise and can make a speech policy which is deliberately restrictive of ideas they don't like.  Clam is also a private enterprise which shouldn't restrict speech or the ability of owners to handle private property in ways they see fit.  However, why shouldn't there be a discussion between two private enterprises which have a business arrangement.  This is generally how business is conducted if one company is unhappy with the actions of another which might be harmful to either or both.

It is well known that JD will give orders to alter mod behavior in the interest of business.  Why don't we gather up the info on the person sent packing, Chuck and myself.  Let us see who is contributing the most through playing, creating faucets or creating fees.  I'll go out on a limb and say the person sent packing has done more for Clam than almost anybody not directly a part of JD or a Dev.  I have a decent amount wagered and lost on the site which is probably a magnitude greater than Chuck.  So, maybe the problem is the person whose contribution seems to be banning people who actually work to make it a success.

This brings me to the second point and return to the issue of stakeholder democracy.  As stated previously, the idea generally seems grand to those deemed stakeholders or pigs found to be more equal than others.  This leads the lesser equals with little alternative but to be at the mercy of equals?  I should congratulate Clamour for not being like this in the way Marxism and various off shoots are, several people have stated this is about being unequal and securing that fact.  The fact is you have disenfranchised a large portion of the user base with this system.  I can neither vote nor add a petition for several reasons.  The first is I have no Clams and therefor any vote I cast will count for zero under the staking allocation of votes.  The second is that I am unable to run the Clam client of on my PC due to the poor DSL and wallet software drastically slowing down my rig.  I downloaded it but it never synced and is too far behind now to try again without leaving it running for sev
 eral days.  Don't even try to say download the torrent.

This system is very similar to the the early American restriction of voters to male property owners.  The U.S. and Anglosphere have the remarkable ability to reform themselves which is probably why we have avoided internal revolutions.  The unfairness of male property owners having an outsized voice in society has long been known.  In fact, we in the U.S. deliberately expressed the ability of any person 18 years or older, with very few exceptions, to cast their vote by amending the Constitution by explicitly stating it.  There are countless people whose voices are silenced even though they use Clam regularly but don't stake any.  It gets even better.  Clams is substantially more dependent on the disenfranchised then by the currently blessed stakeholders.

CC has expressed the long term problem with Clams is paying for the upkeep of the Clamchain and that long-term holders wouldn't be paying their share of the costs under the current system.  The people who do support Clams financially are those that use it as a currency on a regular basis.  I pay fees every time I conduct a transaction which is the same regardless of size.  Why don't you add up the various fees paid by wallets and see who it is that is contributing the most to health of the network.  Don't forget that owners are charged fees for withdrawing so that a person withdrawing from JD is paying that transaction cost.  Then, and this will be my next petition, is for votes to be allocated by the financial contribution each address makes for the longterm health of the Clamchain.  Hmmm, wouldn't want to emulate the more equal than equal system so how about every address that pays a fee within a window gets a vote.  We could call the system POF, Proof of Fees.  It would naturally
 be pronounced poof.

So, here we go again.  Please add the following petition to clam chain in the spirit of democracy, free speech and free enterprise:

Is this where we put proposals?  Here is mine:

Stop censoring shit you don't like

Could this please be updated to:


Create a transaction with CLAMspeech set to:

Where:
is the full 64 hex digit hash and
is the full URL (http://etc) for the text or document that has been hashed.

Good point. I've edited the wiki page to include 'daemon=1' in the conf file. It doesn't do any harm to include it if you're running clam-qt.


You'll need to specify the -conf to clamd too, or it will be trying to talk to the mainnet daemon. You can run both at the same time.

I use:

    $ alias cct='clamd -conf=testnet/clam.conf'

(cct for 'clam coin testnet is how I think of it) so I can then just:

    $ cct getinfo

but you can type in out in full:

    $ clamd -conf=testnet/clam.conf getinfo


No. Staking is enabled by default, and can be disabled with this in testnet/clam.conf:

    staking=0

I have edited the wiki page to include all this too. Thanks for your feedback.