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Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 209. (Read 1151372 times)

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198



There is nothing wrong with buying some Clam and letting it sit in a wallet for stakes and invest profits! I like the clam, and since JD just hit 1 billion bets, I think others like the clam too  Lips sealed


If you don't want to stake yourself consider using my pool.
full member
Activity: 194
Merit: 100



There is nothing wrong with buying some Clam and letting it sit in a wallet for stakes and invest profits! I like the clam, and since JD just hit 1 billion bets, I think others like the clam too  Lips sealed


I buy more clams every 8 hours so long as the Just-Dice investment ticker keeps increasing, its gone up around 60,000 CLAMS in 3 days which is a decent amount in this low volume period.
full member
Activity: 340
Merit: 164
CryptoMercado
New merchant, untested, if used let the community know how it went!

2 orders so far with CLAM, want moar. Smiley
member
Activity: 101
Merit: 10
Just another man trying to find his way.



There is nothing wrong with buying some Clam and letting it sit in a wallet for stakes and invest profits! I like the clam, and since JD just hit 1 billion bets, I think others like the clam too  Lips sealed
full member
Activity: 194
Merit: 100
For what it's worth I've been using giftoff for years (back when it was pock.io) and never had any problems. Converted Doge and BTC to Amazon gift cards and it's an extremely easy/quick process.

I've used it for steam vouchers - also no complaints. CLAM is a great investment right now!
full member
Activity: 136
Merit: 100
For what it's worth I've been using giftoff for years (back when it was pock.io) and never had any problems. Converted Doge and BTC to Amazon gift cards and it's an extremely easy/quick process.
hero member
Activity: 853
Merit: 500
Also, I don't know if it was known, but to those saying you can't do anything but play on JD with CLAM :

https://giftoff.com/

And another casino accepting clams :
https://casino.directbet.eu/

Of course, always be careful while using new services, I've never tested those services and can't say if they are legit or not  Grin .
The gift cards notably are mainly available only in the UK. You can search on the website, all countries available gift cards include Skype and Etsy.


Never used giftoff.com, but can tell you directbet is legit. Already did hundreds of bets (sportsbetting mostly and some casino) with instant payouts.
Actually, Directbet accepts CLAM only for Casino, and the admins said if they have good volume will adopt it in sportsbook too.
FortuneJack also accepts CLAM.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Does anyone know where the CLAM vector logo can be downloaded? I'm inspired to make a memorable t-shirt.

Will have to ask xploited for the logo itself.

If you know your way around a vector graphics program, here is the poster (contains the logo).

http://clamclient.com/images/posterclamsWEB.ai
full member
Activity: 132
Merit: 100
willmathforcrypto.com
This. https://youtu.be/6Pnqp5n9pgE
Who can draw arrows and labels: "Doog", "Whale yellow side digger" and "CLAM community" in that short 71sec. video?

That's very funny.

I think we're at about 0:56 right now. Smiley

I agree the video's funny. Your reference to 0:56 is either funny or scary.

Spoiler alert: 0:56 is when the stone giant raises his eyebrow just before letting the boulder crush the city.

I'm in that city!
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
Also, I don't know if it was known, but to those saying you can't do anything but play on JD with CLAM :
https://giftoff.com/
And another casino accepting clams :
https://casino.directbet.eu/
Of course, always be careful while using new services, I've never tested those services and can't say if they are legit or not  Grin .
The gift cards notably are mainly available only in the UK. You can search on the website, all countries available gift cards include Skype and Etsy.

I personally believe that crypto is headed to a network agnostic-ish approach.
Eventually user-friendly wallets will emerge that work shapeshift.io and similar services in behind the scenes, and balances will be displayed in local fiat.

Just my two-cents Tongue

For sure, there will be that side. And big online wallet services seems wanting to head onto the FIAT denominated wallet (Circle ?) or even 100% FIAT locked, like coinapult.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Also, I don't know if it was known, but to those saying you can't do anything but play on JD with CLAM :
https://giftoff.com/
And another casino accepting clams :
https://casino.directbet.eu/
Of course, always be careful while using new services, I've never tested those services and can't say if they are legit or not  Grin .
The gift cards notably are mainly available only in the UK. You can search on the website, all countries available gift cards include Skype and Etsy.

I personally believe that crypto is headed to a network agnostic-ish approach.
Eventually user-friendly wallets will emerge that work shapeshift.io and similar services in behind the scenes, and balances will be displayed in local fiat.

Just my two-cents Tongue
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
Also, I don't know if it was known, but to those saying you can't do anything but play on JD with CLAM :

https://giftoff.com/

And another casino accepting clams :
https://casino.directbet.eu/

Of course, always be careful while using new services, I've never tested those services and can't say if they are legit or not  Grin .
The gift cards notably are mainly available only in the UK. You can search on the website, all countries available gift cards include Skype and Etsy.
full member
Activity: 340
Merit: 164

I've personally lost several DOGE keys out of laziness (why take the time to back up 200 DOGE?), and I suspect that many others have as well. Especially the new users that the DOGE community recruits. So, FWIW, there's some anecdotal evidence of your point.

The snapshot was a year and a half ago at this point. For the most part, those hard drives are either dead, replaced, or not going to get dug anyway. Probably the big diggers at this point... will be big diggers, but for the time being, they've lost their shot at making decent money on it.

I'm in the same boat. When I did my initial dig, I think I ran like 5 addresses, 10 max, and either 1 or 2 of them paid out. Probably a lot of less experienced users sent their DOGE from their old computer to their new computer and paid the fee. You want to draw a graph, do a graph of the daily amount of CLAM digs on each day as a plot. There was probably an initial burst, some minor spikes here and there, and then just a slow steady plateau downwards to maybe 10 a day until the digger showed up. Probably a lot less. And I imagine the volume of digs per day has dropped back down to almost nothing since the digger stopped.

The probability is VERY high that the vast majority of CLAMs added to the supply over the course of 2016 will be from staking.

The coin was constructed in such a way that this was ALWAYS a possibility - it was stated in the announce. /supply on JD tells you the max possible coins. Why are we acting now like it's a big surprise? Why are we getting all bent out of shape that a big dig has upped the supply and diluted the value of the coin? It's utter nonsense. The fundamentals have NOT CHANGED. The people that got bent out of shape because the price is low for the moment are weak hands. Changing key components of the coin to satisfy them will ultimately satisfy no one.

I'll say it again, and this is not just a plug for my site, but the coin's value is what value it provides. It's been seen as only a gambling token, and that was fine. Speculators have mucked it up now in part because of the big dig and because of all the FUD (which, really, people, learn to see through that *ahem* NONSENSE already). There's only room for so many coins out there, and the ones that provide a unique value are the ones that will succeed.

The values:
steady staking coin
JD (yes, even so)
fair distribution (you COULD have some CLAM!)

Changing the rules now undermines confidence in the third item, and the coin will probably not recover from that. We shouldn't even be having a vote. If the coin is going to die BECAUSE of the way it was set up, let it die and go develop another one AFTER that point. Because to do anything other than that reeks of self-sabotage. The fundamentals of the coin are good already and eventually the FUDding will stop and the value will recover. I'm sorry it won't go back to $3 tomorrow, as much as I'd love it to. But I still buy CLAM every two weeks when I get my paycheck because I believe in it. Put your money to it. Buy CLAM and hold it and stake it and don't let the manipulators win. Enough of their nonsense. And let's find something else to do with the coin and make people aware of it - besides of course, my site. Which I ain't even saying the name of here because that's not the point.
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 20
I expect BTC is much more deflationary (especially during this earlier period of time) than anyone realizes.

I strongly suspect probably even much more deflationary than you suggest, for purposes of the CLAM distribution.

What is very important to realize that no Bitcoins (or DOGE or LTC) have to be lost for the corresponding CLAMs to be lost forever. The BTC/LTC/DOGE merely need to have moved from their original (as of early 2014) addresses and then those private keys not kept for no particular reason for the next two years, and then finally kept from now until they might otherwise end up getting claimed.

That, and the fact that smaller (Bitcoin/LTC/DOGE) wallets are more likely to simply be lost than larger ones. (People don't necessarily back up their laptops with keys for small amounts coins on there, but they do store large outputs very carefully.) Thus the fraction of outputs that are lost is certainly much higher than the fraction of coins that are lost.

I don't know how many of those "yellow" coins simply don't exist and claiming them is a literal impossibility, but has to be a lot.

I've personally lost several DOGE keys out of laziness (why take the time to back up 200 DOGE?), and I suspect that many others have as well. Especially the new users that the DOGE community recruits. So, FWIW, there's some anecdotal evidence of your point.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
I expect BTC is much more deflationary (especially during this earlier period of time) than anyone realizes.

I strongly suspect probably even much more deflationary than you suggest, for purposes of the CLAM distribution.

What is very important to realize that no Bitcoins (or DOGE or LTC) have to be lost for the corresponding CLAMs to be lost forever. The BTC/LTC/DOGE merely need to have moved from their original (as of early 2014) addresses and then those private keys not kept for no particular reason for the next two years, and then finally kept from now until they might otherwise end up getting claimed.

That, and the fact that smaller (Bitcoin/LTC/DOGE) wallets are more likely to simply be lost than larger ones. (People don't necessarily back up their laptops with keys for small amounts coins on there, but they do store large outputs very carefully.) Thus the fraction of outputs that are lost is certainly much higher than the fraction of coins that are lost.

I don't know how many of those "yellow" coins simply don't exist and claiming them is a literal impossibility, but has to be a lot.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Over time the staking overwhelms the initial distribution. But it takes a long time for staking to have any serious effect on the relative size of that undug yellow section.
What you don't know is how much of that yellow section actually exists, and how much would ever be dug below prices that would make everyone here very happy anyway.
The pattern we've seen, including this dig, is that higher prices have coincided with digging. It isn't a perfect correlation, but it is pretty significant. The more time goes on and the more digs there are, the more the existing undug supply is annealed such that much of it likely won't ever be dug without much higher prices (if at all)
The other issue is that this ignores the original purpose of the undug CLAMs, which is distribution. That yellow section represents what is probably a million to a few million people (no one really knows the number of crypto users). The positive effects of those people becoming aware of CLAM and some of them joining the CLAM ecosystem is potentially just as dramatic as the potential downside of those coins being dug and sold, if not more so. It doesn't need to be viewed as an enormous scary yellow monster. It could also be viewed as an enormously promising opportunity.
Zero sum thinking can be incredibly misleading, and harmful
EDIT: I see SuperClam has edited in some similar comments. Bravo.

Entirely "from-the-hip" guess-ti-mation:

I expect BTC is much more deflationary (especially during this earlier period of time) than anyone realizes.
I expect a solid quarter of the 'undug' are either lost or will never be bothered to claim.
This is obviously a nearly worthless guess - it could be as much as 75% or as little as say 3-5%.
You could probably get a much clearer picture by charting coin-days-destroyed vs. coin-days-in-existence in the BTC network.

This leaves 75% of it in the air, of which various amounts will belong to larger claimers and the rest to smaller claimers.

I think dooglus has good reason to be concerned with such a large amount "in the air".
The question is: is that concern sufficient to change the 'dig' process?
Possibly.
Possibly not.

And, that is exactly what CLAMour will hopefully help to reveal.
How much support is out there for such a proposal?


Without such a proposal, I intend to move forward over the coming months with a more comprehensive package that solves a host of issues, such as the fee structure, incentives, etc.
Digs would likely be tangentially affected by those changes; simply due to the fact that they make up such a large "bloat" on the chain, and represent what would possibly be considered "lost", or at least expensive, outputs.
If the change was to meet a high threshold in a soft-fork - we would have our long-term 'solution'.

Until then, we will give CLAMour a chance to inform our debate.

Hopefully in the end we come out of this with a whole host of positive changes and a polling system that is instrumental in helping us navigate these types of decidedly human problems.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Over time the staking overwhelms the initial distribution. But it takes a long time for staking to have any serious effect on the relative size of that undug yellow section.

What you don't know is how much of that yellow section actually exists, and how much would ever be dug below prices that would make everyone here very happy anyway.

The pattern we've seen, including this dig, is that higher prices have coincided with digging. It isn't a perfect correlation, but it is pretty significant. The more time goes on and the more digs there are, the more the existing undug supply is annealed such that much of it likely won't ever be dug without much higher prices (if at all)

The other issue is that this ignores the original purpose of the undug CLAMs, which is distribution. That yellow section represents what is probably a million to a few million people (no one really knows the number of crypto users). The positive effects of those people becoming aware of CLAM and some of them joining the CLAM ecosystem is potentially just as dramatic as the potential downside of those coins being dug and sold, if not more so. It doesn't need to be viewed as an enormous scary yellow monster. It could also be viewed as an enormously promising opportunity.

Zero sum thinking can be incredibly misleading, and harmful

EDIT: I see SuperClam has edited in some similar comments. Bravo.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
This. https://youtu.be/6Pnqp5n9pgE
Who can draw arrows and labels: "Doog", "Whale yellow side digger" and "CLAM community" in that short 71sec. video?
That's very funny.
I think we're at about 0:56 right now. Smiley

The pie-chart graphical representations - very helpful for people to picture the proportions we are talking about.

The video - not sure a worse video could have been chosen (though I am sure a troll is capable of it). Tongue
If you are suggesting the rock elemental/giant is dooglus... are you suggesting he is the digger?
Or, that he is the one causing the market panic?
The giant is, afterall, the one who started the boulder in it's roll towards the city.
I think that's almost certainly not true.

Further, I think the boulder could just as easily be an ill-informed decision as 'a digger'.

Regardless, it IS funny Smiley

EDIT:
Also, if you are going to make yearly predictions, you should likely also project the helpful portion of 'digs', which bring in new users and demand.
The rate is extremely hard to estimate - though I suppose we do have a slope we could hack out of the past pattern of digs if we really wanted.

Further, an expression of how large a new curious dig would be, at the end of that "1 year" and "10 year" projection, in proportion to the total currently active supply assuming the above - would be helpful.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
This. https://youtu.be/6Pnqp5n9pgE
Who can draw arrows and labels: "Doog", "Whale yellow side digger" and "CLAM community" in that short 71sec. video?

That's very funny.

I think we're at about 0:56 right now. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
left out of your pie chart is staked clams that are in the pool but not dug and that number is big

You're right. Let's add those in.

As of now:



One year from now:



Ten years from now:



Over time the staking overwhelms the initial distribution. But it takes a long time for staking to have any serious effect on the relative size of that undug yellow section.
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