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Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 212. (Read 1151373 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
Crypto needs margin trading like a hole in the head.... I hate margin trading it just creates greedy wankers looking for a quick profit...it does nothing for CLAM or any other coin but increase hype and fud

Jon  Wink

I think it leads to price stabilisation too. Since only with margin trading you can bet on a dropping price. So traders are interested in both ways to go.
full member
Activity: 462
Merit: 100
Viarium.io - DECENTRALIZED VR WORLD
Does the shorting occur from poloniex exchange?
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
Could you please explain, if you know this, how margin trading works on poloniex? If I short sell like 10k clams and price is stagnating and I decide to close that short will that appear as a buy in market?

I think it works like this:

When you short sell 10k CLAMs, you borrow the 10k CLAMs from a lender and immediately sell them on the market.

Later when you close your position, you buy the (10k plus interest) CLAMs back on the market and repay your loan.

So your trade causes a 10k sell when you open it, and a 10k+ buy when you close it.

It won't appear as a buy order in the market. Your buy will execute as a market order, consuming existing sell orders rather than creating a new buy order.

The small purchases are made to cover loses incurred by the short-selling (if price goes up after a short-sale, the portfolio has lost 'value', and must purchase CLAM to cover that loss).
At least, that is my understanding of it.
Small price changes normally wouldn't cause margin calls. You have to lose enough to drop below the minimum required equity first. Of course that depends how leveraged you are. Poloniex allows something like 4:1 leverage I believe, though some of the BTC margin exchanges allow some really crazy stuff like 50:1 or maybe even 100:1

Conceptually that is correct though, right?

I'm not sure what you're getting at with "the small purchases". There aren't any small purchases.

If the price goes up high enough that you're getting close to being unable to afford to buy back the CLAMs you sold then you will be margin called, and the BTC you used as collateral plus the BTC you made by selling the borrowed CLAM will be used to buy the CLAM back so you can make the lender whole.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
The small purchases are made to cover loses incurred by the short-selling (if price goes up after a short-sale, the portfolio has lost 'value', and must purchase CLAM to cover that loss).
At least, that is my understanding of it.
Small price changes normally wouldn't cause margin calls. You have to lose enough to drop below the minimum required equity first. Of course that depends how leveraged you are. Poloniex allows something like 4:1 leverage I believe, though some of the BTC margin exchanges allow some really crazy stuff like 50:1 or maybe even 100:1

Conceptually that is correct though, right?

The purchases need not be small, necessarily. If the market moves a lot and the position is large (and especially if highly leveraged), then large trades may be generated by margin calls. I don't remember exactly how Poloniex does margin calls either, but my vague recollection  is they consider liquidation price which means orders coming off the book can trigger margin calls even if the current market price does not change. Don't quote me on that though.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
The small purchases are made to cover loses incurred by the short-selling (if price goes up after a short-sale, the portfolio has lost 'value', and must purchase CLAM to cover that loss).
At least, that is my understanding of it.
Small price changes normally wouldn't cause margin calls. You have to lose enough to drop below the minimum required equity first. Of course that depends how leveraged you are. Poloniex allows something like 4:1 leverage I believe, though some of the BTC margin exchanges allow some really crazy stuff like 50:1 or maybe even 100:1

Conceptually that is correct though, right?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
The small purchases are made to cover loses incurred by the short-selling (if price goes up after a short-sale, the portfolio has lost 'value', and must purchase CLAM to cover that loss).

At least, that is my understanding of it.

Small price changes normally wouldn't cause margin calls. You have to lose enough to drop below the minimum required equity first. Of course that depends how leveraged you are. Poloniex allows something like 4:1 leverage I believe, though some of the BTC margin exchanges allow some really crazy stuff like 50:1 or maybe even 100:1
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1002
CLAM Developer
Question as to changing the Clam protocol (or whatever) to prevent future Whale Diggers.
Forgive me if this has been presented before, but there are many pages in this thread now, but:
Has anyone proposed, a new coin being created from burning your Clam coins?
What I am proposing is a secondary coin (like dogeparty), where we burn our clams now, and lock in that total clam cap,
by a certain date. Anyone who wants these non-dig-able Clams after that date, can no longer burn their clams for conversion.
These "cooked" clams would still have staking and etc, but are not diggable and forever fixed, except for the staking.
This allows current Clam Coin to not change its protocol, which is a violation of the social contact,
and would also allow current Clam holders not to lose value with potential whale diggers.
We could call them "Cooked Clams".

I speak for only myself, but I have no desire to splinter the CLAM community.

This doesn't, of course, change the fact that any party could choose to fork CLAM and create such a network.


There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

I saw that too. After buying 10k CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them, I put them up for lending at 0.5% per day. They were very quickly taken up by people. The rate has since dropped considerably from lenders undercutting each other, so now you're better off staking instead of lending probably.
When you put up CLAMs for lending that is taken up not buy margin buyers but by people selling CLAMs short (i.e. betting on CLAMs dropping in value), which is something that has been happening a lot during this whole episode. Margin calls on short selling result in market buys, not market sells.
People buying coins on margin will be borrowing BTC, but it is hard to interpret much from the BTC lending market since people could be doing that to buy any of the coins on margin, and probably most of that is the bigger coins like ETH.
Could you please explain, if you know this, how margin trading works on poloniex? If I short sell like 10k clams and price is stagnating and I decide to close that short will that appear as a buy in market?

The small purchases are made to cover loses incurred by the short-selling (if price goes up after a short-sale, the portfolio has lost 'value', and must purchase CLAM to cover that loss).

At least, that is my understanding of it.

EDIT:
When you close a short-sold position, you must purchase the CLAM to cover your position (and thus reimburse the person you loaned the CLAM from).
Never really participated in margin orders, but that is mt understanding.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

I saw that too. After buying 10k CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them, I put them up for lending at 0.5% per day. They were very quickly taken up by people. The rate has since dropped considerably from lenders undercutting each other, so now you're better off staking instead of lending probably.

When you put up CLAMs for lending that is taken up not buy margin buyers but by people selling CLAMs short (i.e. betting on CLAMs dropping in value), which is something that has been happening a lot during this whole episode. Margin calls on short selling result in market buys, not market sells.

People buying coins on margin will be borrowing BTC, but it is hard to interpret much from the BTC lending market since people could be doing that to buy any of the coins on margin, and probably most of that is the bigger coins like ETH.

Could you please explain, if you know this, how margin trading works on poloniex? If I short sell like 10k clams and price is stagnating and I decide to close that short will that appear as a buy in market?

Trades you do on margin (long or short) appear to everyone else to be just like regular trades. The only difference in going short is that you sell first, then close the position with a buy later, instead of the usual buy first, the close the (long) position by selling later. Both long and short margin trades are charged interest and subject to margin calls (where you are forced to close by the system) if the market moves too far against you (the limit depends on the amount of collateral you have in your account).
hero member
Activity: 656
Merit: 500
There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

I saw that too. After buying 10k CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them, I put them up for lending at 0.5% per day. They were very quickly taken up by people. The rate has since dropped considerably from lenders undercutting each other, so now you're better off staking instead of lending probably.

When you put up CLAMs for lending that is taken up not buy margin buyers but by people selling CLAMs short (i.e. betting on CLAMs dropping in value), which is something that has been happening a lot during this whole episode. Margin calls on short selling result in market buys, not market sells.

People buying coins on margin will be borrowing BTC, but it is hard to interpret much from the BTC lending market since people could be doing that to buy any of the coins on margin, and probably most of that is the bigger coins like ETH.

Could you please explain, if you know this, how margin trading works on poloniex? If I short sell like 10k clams and price is stagnating and I decide to close that short will that appear as a buy in market?
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
Question as to changing the Clam protocol (or whatever) to prevent future Whale Diggers.
Forgive me if this has been presented before, but there are many pages in this thread now, but:

Has anyone proposed, a new coin being created from burning your Clam coins?
What I am proposing is a secondary coin (like dogeparty), where we burn our clams now, and lock in that total clam cap,
by a certain date. Anyone who wants these non-dig-able Clams after that date, can no longer burn their clams for conversion.
These "cooked" clams would still have staking and etc, but are not diggable and forever fixed, except for the staking.

This allows current Clam Coin to not change its protocol, which is a violation of the social contact,
and would also allow current Clam holders not to lose value with potential whale diggers.

We could call them "Cooked Clams".
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Crypto needs margin trading like a hole in the head.... I hate margin trading it just creates greedy wankers looking for a quick profit...it does nothing for CLAM or any other coin but increase hype and fud

Agree, especially when it comes to short sellers and FUD, but the whole thing (both long and short margin trading) is a mess that further adds to crazy volatility in small markets with limited liquidity.
hero member
Activity: 529
Merit: 505
I'm on drugs, what's your excuse?
Crypto needs margin trading like a hole in the head.... I hate margin trading it just creates greedy wankers looking for a quick profit...it does nothing for CLAM or any other coin but increase hype and fud

Jon  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

I saw that too. After buying 10k CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them, I put them up for lending at 0.5% per day. They were very quickly taken up by people. The rate has since dropped considerably from lenders undercutting each other, so now you're better off staking instead of lending probably.

When you put up CLAMs for lending that is taken up not buy margin buyers but by people selling CLAMs short (i.e. betting on CLAMs dropping in value), which is something that has been happening a lot during this whole episode. Margin calls on short selling result in market buys, not market sells.

People buying coins on margin will be borrowing BTC, but it is hard to interpret much from the BTC lending market since people could be doing that to buy any of the coins on margin, and probably most of that is the bigger coins like ETH.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

I saw that too. After buying 10k CLAMs and not being able to withdraw them, I put them up for lending at 0.5% per day. They were very quickly taken up by people. The rate has since dropped considerably from lenders undercutting each other, so now you're better off staking instead of lending probably.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Does the whale digger really sold all his CLAMs yesterday?

If you believe what he says, yes. Beyond that it is impossible to know.

Quote
No more dumps?

Other people, including whoever supposedly bought his 100 BTC worth of CLAMs, might dump.

The stake weight on the network has gone up by about 200K CLAMs, so someone is staking coins that weren't be staked yesterday. That is unambiguous.

There was another 50 bitcoin dump about twelve hours after the whale digger said he'd run out of CLAMS. Either he was lying or someone else who brought in low was taking profits. CLAMS had the biggest price swings of any coin yesterday, and that could have drawn speculators to the market looking for a fast profit.

There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?

There is also high demand for borrowed CLAMs (i.e. short selling). People are being naive if they don't think there is a motive behind the FUD.

hero member
Activity: 656
Merit: 500
Does the whale digger really sold all his CLAMs yesterday?

If you believe what he says, yes. Beyond that it is impossible to know.

Quote
No more dumps?

Other people, including whoever supposedly bought his 100 BTC worth of CLAMs, might dump.

The stake weight on the network has gone up by about 200K CLAMs, so someone is staking coins that weren't be staked yesterday. That is unambiguous.

There was another 50 bitcoin dump about twelve hours after the whale digger said he'd run out of CLAMS. Either he was lying or someone else who brought in low was taking profits. CLAMS had the biggest price swings of any coin yesterday, and that could have drawn speculators to the market looking for a fast profit.

There was a lot of people margin trading since volume was huge, so that might have been margin call . also is no one ever supposed to sell or whats your point ?
member
Activity: 74
Merit: 10
Does the whale digger really sold all his CLAMs yesterday?

If you believe what he says, yes. Beyond that it is impossible to know.

Quote
No more dumps?

Other people, including whoever supposedly bought his 100 BTC worth of CLAMs, might dump.

The stake weight on the network has gone up by about 200K CLAMs, so someone is staking coins that weren't be staked yesterday. That is unambiguous.

There was another 50 bitcoin dump about twelve hours after the whale digger said he'd run out of CLAMS. Either he was lying or someone else who bought in low was taking profits. CLAMS had the biggest price swings of any coin yesterday, and that could have drawn speculators to the market looking for a fast profit.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
as always , I bought and the price is going down.
hate crypto world
legendary
Activity: 1049
Merit: 1001
This thread has become pretty annoying, just mostly one person saying the same thing over and over to try and impose their views on others.

Glad to see some other tools to involve the community so I never have to stop by here again


“If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.”


― Adolf Hitler
member
Activity: 64
Merit: 20
I've just created a clamour petition: http://clamsight.com/tx/9777a04456f7f15f4aa56209ec85ed207268a2274b5ba1de03ac718f0ca600ac

Here is the clamspeech: "create clamour ff839af983f5e0e9f85ea3bd93cb8c7b47e0ba2f5aea4100be12d8eb4cc77bc2 https://gist.github.com/Kefkius/88e2a1a5c965f4be83e"

The gist at the URL has the following contents:
Code:
Change the behavior of the opcode CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY so that it behaves identically to Bitcoin's implementation.

Probably not something that people care enough about to vote on, but it's an example use case.
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