[ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 399.

SuperClam

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Activity: 784

Merit: 1002

CLAM Developer

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 05, 2015, 06:59:03 AM

Quote from: grunt on January 05, 2015, 06:02:05 AM

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 04, 2015, 05:04:23 PM

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.
I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.
You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

We are not a brand new project.

We have been doing this for over 6 months: not a single loss of coins.

Our offer to delete the entire project if someone could show us a single line of malicious code still stands.

Best practices with Bitcoin, or any derivative crypto, requires that you use a new address for each receive.

Empty the wallet into a new wallet/address.
At that point, your previous address(es) are nothing more than random strings of letters and numbers.

Every single funded address is currently worth something like $4 USD at exchange.
I would trade a random string of worthless letters and numbers for that reward -> any day of the week.

garthkiser

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Activity: 176

Merit: 100

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 05, 2015, 06:59:03 AM

Quote from: grunt on January 05, 2015, 06:02:05 AM

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 04, 2015, 05:04:23 PM

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.

I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.

You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

The CLAMclient is open source software. Every single line of code is a matter of public record at: https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams

While you nor I can fully examine the code ourselves, plenty of other people can and have. As to your statement that signing a message to verify ownership is "easy"; it also poses a security concern: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10044191

If you want to dig up CLAMs but have a problem using your keys, then empty the BTC, LTC or DOGE address of coins before claiming CLAMs.

MikkisJ

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Activity: 126

Merit: 11

Quote from: grunt on January 05, 2015, 06:02:05 AM

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 04, 2015, 05:04:23 PM

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

I still use the same addresses and private keys that have CLAMS distributed to. Using a different address for each transaction is very troublesome and annoying, because you need to back-up every single one of them.

I use only a couple of addresses, they are all back-uped and I don't have to buck-up the wallet or private keys every time I receive coins.

You can tell that CLAM creators don't care about this or created the system to steal coins, because it's easy to verify owning the address with a signed message without requiring the private keys. But they want your private keys.

JWU42

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1000

Quote from: JWU42 on January 04, 2015, 05:06:12 PM

I am running HEAD from Git and can't seem to get things "right".

1. Encrypted the wallet
2. Ran

Code:

clamd walletpassphrase passwordhere 999999 true

to allow stakingonly

3. I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

4. balance is > 150 clams

Code:

user@HOST:~$ clamd getstakinginfo
{
    "enabled" : true,
    "staking" : false,
    "errors" : "",
    "currentblocksize" : 1000,
    "currentblocktx" : 0,
    "pooledtx" : 0,
    "difficulty" : 28234.19972784,
    "search-interval" : 16,
    "weight" : 0.00000000,
    "netstakeweight" : 305129.11962176,
    "expectedtime" : -1
}

As Dooglus mentioned above, just needed more time for the staking to kick in. All appears normal now.

grunt

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

Quote from: MikkisJ on January 04, 2015, 05:04:23 PM

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

It's good to be skeptical. If you find the specific private keys which have Clams to be dug you can export those and delete them from your BTC wallet. You can claim the clams at just-dice or by importing the keys into a clam client running on your computer. So there are ways to insulate yourself and your btc.

grunt

newbie

Activity: 43

Merit: 0

Quote from: xploited on December 07, 2014, 08:55:42 PM

Quote from: dooglus on December 07, 2014, 07:36:24 PM

Quote from: xploited on December 07, 2014, 02:02:49 PM

Signing messages is a possibility but the ambiguity of which addresses your coins are stored makes me and the rest of the dev team hesitate to do so.

I think it's too late for that now, anyway. The way things are set up, distribution CLAM coins are at addresses which have *the same* private key as the corresponding BTC/LTC/DOGE addresses.

I guess a change to the protocol could theoretically allow it, and I don't think the ambiguity you mentioned is important - if I can sign a message with the BTC form of a private key, I can trivially convert the private key to DOGE, LTC, or CLAM and sign a message with that form instead. So the protocol would need to modify the meaning of "OP_CHECKSIG" to be "the provided signature is valid for the provided pubkey (as before) OR (the input being spent was created before block 10k AND the provided signature is a valid message signature of "CLAMDIG" as signed by the BTC, LTC, or DOGE address corresponding to the provided pubkey)".

Then people could dig up their outputs without needing to provide anything more than a useless message signature.

There's a risk that people could be tricked into providing a scammer with a message signature that the scammer can then use to dig up the victim's CLAMs.

Oh, but there's a bigger risk that the scammer just scans the network for people digging up their CLAMs using message signatures, and modifies the outputs of those transactions to send the dug CLAMs to their own address... to prevent this, the message to be signed would need to include the destination address rather than being a constant (like "CLAMDIG" above). Then what if there are multiple destination addresses. We can limit this kind of transaction to only work with a single destination address (then the scammer sends 0.001 to the destination address and gives the rest to the miners, so we have to fix the amount too, to be 4.60xxx minus the 0.0001 fee - etc.)

I think in theory it's possible to find a workable solution that would allow people to safely dig up their distribution CLAM using just a signed message, but it would need careful consideration.

This is absolutely on point, and articulate as always. I hadn't considered a few of your points, especially a scammer tricking someone into sending then a message signature they could use to redeem the clams.

How you suggest doing it was exactly what I had in mind, and your right, it would need careful consideration.

I am a big supporter of the bitaddress style page that could allow everything to happen safely offline, its a great idea imo. As for moving the information, a usb key, while it does have some associated risk is a reasonable option. there are also QR codes which would be easier if you were using a mobile device with a camera.

Offline signing seems like it should be looked at first. It provides a level of security that you can be sure your private keys are not going anywhere and requires no modification to the protocol.

That is a really interesting possibility. I just discovered that you can sign messages from within the Coinbase wallet. Being able to retrieve Clams at an address using a signed message could further democratize the distribution.

dooglus

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Quote from: crush on January 04, 2015, 01:49:24 PM

What you mean the first 10k blocks?

I mean the initial distribution was finished by block 10,000. If you have more than 10,000 blocks synced, then you have enough to see your coins.

Quote from: crush on January 04, 2015, 01:49:24 PM

The CLAM wallet is fully synched.. After that I imported my old Bitcoin wallet.dat and nothing happened? Do I need to wait some time?

No, you don't need to wait. I expect the wallet you imported doesn't contain any addresses that were funded on the date in May 2014 that the snapshot was taken.

Quote from: JWU42 on January 04, 2015, 05:06:12 PM

3. I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

"weight" : 0.00000000,

"weight" is a measure of how many CLAMs are currently trying to stake. Outputs don't try to stake if they have staked in the last 510 blocks, or if they have been involved in a transaction in the last 4 hours. I expect one of those two is the case for your coins.

Run "listunspent" to see how many confirmations each output has. Probably by now the problem has resolved itself, since more than 510 blocks have been staked since you posted...

Finally, we saw a LOT of CLAMs dug up today - mostly from what appears to be some kind of Litecoin service. Here's a chart showing the total amount dug up over time. Note the big jump when JD launched around 8th December, and the almost-as-big jump today:

JWU42

legendary

Activity: 1666

Merit: 1000

I am running HEAD from Git and can't seem to get things "right".

1. Encrypted the wallet
2. Ran

Code:

clamd walletpassphrase passwordhere 999999 true

to allow stakingonly

3. I get the following result -- see below (i.e., Weight seems wrong)

4. balance is > 150 clams

Code:

user@HOST:~$ clamd getstakinginfo
{
   "enabled" : true,
   "staking" : false,
   "errors" : "",
   "currentblocksize" : 1000,
   "currentblocktx" : 0,
   "pooledtx" : 0,
   "difficulty" : 28234.19972784,
   "search-interval" : 16,
   "weight" : 0.00000000,
   "netstakeweight" : 305129.11962176,
   "expectedtime" : -1
}

MikkisJ

member

Activity: 126

Merit: 11

I don't have skills to check the source myself. Since there is a risk BTC from the wallet I'm still using could be stolen, it's not worth the risk for me.

picolo

hero member

Activity: 1022

Merit: 500

Quote from: dooglus on January 04, 2015, 01:39:27 PM

Quote from: crush on January 04, 2015, 01:34:30 PM

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened.. Sad

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

The free distribution happened May 12th.

crush

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Activity: 260

Merit: 100

Quote from: dooglus on January 04, 2015, 01:39:27 PM

Quote from: crush on January 04, 2015, 01:34:30 PM

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened.. Sad

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

DOOGLUS! Nice to see you here

What you mean the first 10k blocks? The CLAM wallet is fully synched.. After that I imported my old Bitcoin wallet.dat and nothing happened? Do I need to wait some time?

Thanks for your time!

dooglus

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Activity: 2940

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Quote from: crush on January 04, 2015, 01:34:30 PM

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened.. Sad

The free distribution happened back in June or something. It's still available for claiming, and always will be.

You won't see all your free CLAM until you have synced the first 10k blocks.

crush

full member

Activity: 260

Merit: 100

So.. erm.. is the free distribution still going?

Finally synched the wallet today, imported my old (now empty) Bitcoin wallet from before I switched to MultiBit, CLAM wallet stopped working for a while and when it came back nothing happened.. Sad

BayAreaCoins

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Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: picolo on January 04, 2015, 12:34:44 PM

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on January 04, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

Quote from: gamblingbad on January 04, 2015, 08:46:14 AM

Can someone try get http://coinmarketcap.com/ to put in Clam money supply.
Supply is 412,328clam that makes it over 550k usd marketcap that is number 30 on marketcap on crypto coins. I sent email to them but got no answer for many weeks ago.

I'll do it now bud.

Sorry I fucked off and forgot that shit.

Anyone else that can blast them over emails too that'd be great!

I wrote a message about that two weeks ago here on the forum, CLAM is not ranked well. The market is 2000BTC or 540,000 $.

I sent him a PM via forums rather than the contact button @ their web page.

picolo

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Activity: 1022

Merit: 500

Quote from: BayAreaCoins on January 04, 2015, 08:51:40 AM

Quote from: gamblingbad on January 04, 2015, 08:46:14 AM

Can someone try get http://coinmarketcap.com/ to put in Clam money supply.
Supply is 412,328clam that makes it over 550k usd marketcap that is number 30 on marketcap on crypto coins. I sent email to them but got no answer for many weeks ago.

I'll do it now bud.

Sorry I fucked off and forgot that shit.

Anyone else that can blast them over emails too that'd be great!

I wrote a message about that two weeks ago here on the forum, CLAM is not ranked well. The market is 2000BTC or 540,000 $.

dooglus

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Merit: 1333

Quote from: ajw7989 on January 03, 2015, 06:27:44 PM

Wow price of clams skyrocketed any news I missed?

We had quite a few people losing CLAMs on Just-Dice yesterday. I figure that when players buy CLAMs then lose them, they're not able to sell them back, resulting in a net increase in demand.

The lost CLAMs pass to the crowd-sourced Just-Dice bankroll, and tend to stay there. The people funding the bankroll know a good deal when they see it, and tend not to cash out their profits.

Edit: I wonder if there's any correlation between JD profits and CLAM price. I remember the drop to 0.003x happened after eustice won (around Christmas) and dumped ~10k on the market (on Dec 29th):

It seems to me that the biggest candles on the Poloniex chart correspond to the biggest wins and losses on the JD profit chart. Interesting.

Quote from: thefix on January 04, 2015, 03:43:19 AM

I remember in the past we had optimal stack sizes.

What would be the optimal stack sizes for say 500 clams or so?

I don't know if anyone ever really worked it out. It's a trade-off between:

* if your stacks are too big they'll stake more often, but the whole stack has to sit idle for 510 blocks each time it stakes

* if your stacks are too small, it becomes CPU-expensive for the wallet to scan them all for staking chances, and it becomes size (and thus cost) expensive to ever move the CLAMs anywhere else (since you pay transaction fees based on the size of the transaction, and moving thousands of tiny outputs makes for big transactions)

So I figure the optimal size depends on your CPU speed, and on how often you plan to move your CLAMs around.

Edit: oh, and the reason I came to this thread today in the first place!

It's been a while since I posted a network difficulty chart:

BayAreaCoins

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Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: gamblingbad on January 04, 2015, 08:46:14 AM

Can someone try get http://coinmarketcap.com/ to put in Clam money supply.
Supply is 412,328clam that makes it over 550k usd marketcap that is number 30 on marketcap on crypto coins. I sent email to them but got no answer for many weeks ago.

I'll do it now bud.

Sorry I fucked off and forgot that shit.

Anyone else that can blast them over emails too that'd be great!

gamblingbad

hero member

Activity: 568

Merit: 500

https://bit-exo.com/?ref=gamblingbad

Can someone try get http://coinmarketcap.com/ to put in Clam money supply.
Supply is 412,328clam that makes it over 550k usd marketcap that is number around 30-40 on marketcap on crypto coins. I sent email to them but got no answer for many weeks ago.

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: tuaris on January 04, 2015, 08:24:38 AM

Quote from: thompete on January 04, 2015, 07:46:03 AM

Quote from: ajw7989 on January 03, 2015, 06:27:44 PM

Wow price of clams skyrocketed any news I missed?

You guys should check on any old addresses, and you might be able to claim your CLAM.
I think its a great opportunity for new people to buy and test CLAMs as well . But most of the use is only in Gambling right now.

Apparently I do have two BTC address that received CLAM. Sadly one of those is on Coinbase.

That's gay!!!! At least you got one though.

tuaris

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Activity: 780

Merit: 501

Quote from: thompete on January 04, 2015, 07:46:03 AM

Quote from: ajw7989 on January 03, 2015, 06:27:44 PM

Wow price of clams skyrocketed any news I missed?

You guys should check on any old addresses, and you might be able to claim your CLAM.
I think its a great opportunity for new people to buy and test CLAMs as well . But most of the use is only in Gambling right now.

Apparently I do have two BTC address that received CLAM. Sadly one of those is on Coinbase.

Topic: [ANN][CLAM] CLAMs, Proof-Of-Chain, Proof-Of-Working-Stake, a.k.a. "Clamcoin" - page 399. (Read 1151252 times)