Topic: [ANN][CrowdSale Ended]🌟🌟🌟🌟 NVO Decentralized Exchange | MultiWallet 🌟🌟🌟🌟 - page 96. (Read 170137 times)

There is a missunderstanding here, no one received a refund demand, Ton sent private messages to all the users who wanted to be refunded, no one answered, however we received a message from Jabba saying that people want to be refunded, while he haven't invested. It means that it is just a way to destabilize NVO and its investors.
Secondly, the roadmap haven't changed, even on the website. It is normal to have problems at the begining as we started to work, we demanded an architecture which is normal but we have been unable to find it.
As soon as we finish to stabilize the global architecture we will push it on github, it is not a problem.
Architecture ==> Requirements ==> Skills ==> Recruitments ==> Estimated delivery time ==> Roadmap ==> This is how does it works.
This is why i asked the safe architecture, but they don't have it, which caused some issues. From the side of NVO without maidsafe, the architecture is already made, you may have seen on the screen, you should have an idea about the features of the wallet, which means there was an architecture, requirements, skills.
Now for the validator, i said that i will use blockstream tech, as element lets you use a sidechain who's purpose is to record trading informations to let people trade offline in a decentralized storage. I am working on this architecture, how to fully decentralize it, how not to keep controle over it. This is why i asked for a maidsafe architecture, the safe launcher have been replaced by safe browser, forked from https://github.com/beakerbrowser/beaker , i know about the next developments related to browsers as they want to change the way we use APIs and websockets, browsers want to implement the usage of P2P technologies and use them instead. My problematic here is that i don't want to get access to the private keys, this is why i talk about a decentralized exhcange, no one should have access to any information.
I am not interested by self-encryption, i want to kepp nothing on the user-side, i checked it, and it is not what i was looking for, this is why i asked an architecture to know the full features, where will it go.
It is totally legitimate to ask for such a document. I asked for this document as would have helped me to bring developers for maidsafe in order to work on the issues, the unfinished code, and what haven't started yet.
Meanwhile, as i haven't got the document, i have a second project with personal working on it, i found solutions there and though it would be helpful, it is legitimate too, it would bring a fresh air in the project, but it went in a drama.
I never said that we won't use maidsafe, as i can't help them, can't offer a technology, i can just wait, i said that in 4 months if they are not ready we will have to check for a different technology, and it have been said during the crowdsale.

I sort of agree. Refunds must be facilitated upon request if the investors lose trust in the devs and their approach.
However, this is just the first month after the ico ended and devs changing their mind about the base of the platform is alarming, it is not a step backwards. What is alarming indeed is the fact that this comes out within the first month after ico ended. I would have hoped that the NVO devs had close contact with the SAFE team and knew what they're getting themselves into before announcing "Hey, - I"VE GOT THIS" sort of attitude.

I am very worried with the language nemgun is using on and off this forum. Highly unprofessional, petty, and destructive.

I really wonder how this will turn out...

And here are the "who has the biggest dick" wars again...
I don't get it... what will this penis swinging going to achieve?
Please take this discussion offline. Whip them out. Compare. Done deal.

This 'debate' of yours isn't making anyone look good.

It's nice to see the forum getting along so well   I also remain skeptical about being able to replicate SAFENET with Safenet10.0 it is a 10+ year project and still in development for a reason. Now admittedly I don't understand the coding and network side of hows its built so there maybe there is some way it can be done that I'm not aware of. I would make the project open source through github; otherwise it does come off as brash and arrogant to raise millions for a promised project built on the network essentially saying "Hey we trust this network enough to build our project on it" then turn around and say "Wait nevermind the project is too disorganized and cluttered to build our project on it so we're going to build the project on our own network." That sounds both very unrealistic and makes the team look disorganized on top of it because now the roadmap and details have changed and that in turn makes NVO look like a pipe dream to investors. I would offer either a refund to those that want it as the terms of the roadmap have changed by a huge degree and open source the projects if you haven't already to show you are as serious can be to bring this project to life.

As long as you are respectful, you can post as much as you want, any questions you want with great pleasure.

You have almost understood what I ask, it could even be a book, a global assessment, where you are, where you are going to go, which parts lack development, what was the initial vision, Architecture of departure, see what has been changed and why, a general audit.

I do not need to listen to the podcasts or see videos, I need to see the code, I have done it, now I need to see the architecture to take the final result. What is missing, what is needed, what needs to be deployed and what are the means I have to deploy for NVO, as I said, NVO has to use maidsafe, which is why I Asked for a global plan, there must surely be a year-end balance sheets on the state of progress, what is missing in the code, the reason for this lack,  from there, yes, we will be able to deploy something , And it is only then that I could see all of it.

You should do some cleaning in the repo, keep it clean, you said you have migrated from safe launcher to a safe browser, but safe launcher is still there. Put it in order, we know that the safe launcher have been replace by the safe browser with safe auth, one has been updated, and the other abandoned, then put some order, do some cleaning, that's all I ask, thanks to this, we can make interesting projections, organize yourself.



Well, if we were interested by the funds, we would have taken the 30% of the first milestone directly, however, we took just what we need around 9%, we don't want to waste the funds.



You understand better and better what i mean, I do not have months or weeks to listen, to seek, to dig, I already have the tools, I know the languages. So what I'm asking is the global plan, I give you an example:

When you take a mason to build a house, he asks you the architectural plan, you do not tell him dig, or check with the neighbor he will explain better, or go see the plumber he has an idea, or dig well you will find Chalk and you will understand what I mean, or even learn. He already knows his job, he already know how to build and you ask him to learn ?

Imagine that you builds a hotel, you're just going to tell him, that it is more beautiful compared to the ancient with more features. He won't care about that, he will ask you the plan to know where to begin.

It's the same thing when you say you're going to do an internet 2.0, you need a plan, imagination is good, but you have to write it down and order it. And so you understood that if I have to recruit developers for maidsafe, I will just lose money by telling them dig, you have months and weeks paid to dig. This is a fundamental explanation because it means that you still have nothing at all, you tell people, understand our idea, and invent it, that's why I said I will do My own safenet if you do not manage to do it because I have to find out yours by myself.
I hope you understand what I'm saying, it's simpler to make mine that's all. Understand that you still have not started serious things, simply because of lack of structure. A lot of people could understand what I said.

Soon a team member will meet David, he will ask if we can send someone for a global audit, in order to prepare an architecture, the reports will be shared by both teams, the audit would give a global note, an architecture we could publish publicly, from there, we could all work more seriously, it is the most professional solution i can offer.
If we have a negative note from the audit, we would have to go for a different technology, something more reliable and realisable, It is enough just to be honest and to put to the evidence.

"It is also my right to give my personal opinion when I say that it is managed like an IT sect, because I can not imagine a developer listening to 300 hours of podcasts, at the rate of 8 hours a day, he would go crazy, That's why I said to delete them because they have no utility."

David has never made any podcasts, some of the community have and he has been interviewed a few times. Why will you not listen?

He gave you a link to a few in case you wanted to listen to one or two to get the big picture, so you then know where to dive in to learn about internet 2.0 from actual developer focused documentation. The podcasts are NOT for devs.

Devs should already have a big picture understand and be going through documentation and code. You asked the most basic question possible (how can I learn about this thing?), so you got the broadest answer, 'go dig, here's all the links from big picture to RFCs and code'.

David works like 19 hour days, how would he have time to walk you through huge mounds of documentation? You need to decide what it is that you want to learn about, then start there. You don't need any help or guidance, none of the other App devs or core devs were given a single doc either, yet they are all working away. 20'ish core devs and another dozen or more App developers all managed to get their head around SAFE after a few weeks/months of reading and asking questions. Why not ask any of them how they started learning about it and where the best docs are for the things you want to learn about rather than asking the head of the project who is way too busy for that? https://forum.safedev.org/

Oh look at what I posted whilst the fund raiser was being carried out and no-one listened to me:


"It looks to me like they are just hoping to raise a ton of money and figure it all out later on"

I have betrayed no one, let me explain my personal opinion, I have only 9 years left as lead dev in the best scenario. I was lucky to have a computer at the age of 3 years, you should know that all developers says they had access to a computer from their young age, the thing is that today my Son have a smart phone, he have access to a much more powerful computer than what I had, so the future generation will be much more impressive than the one of which I am a part. Simply because they will adapt more easily to computers and new technologies than me.

The problem is that when we see someone like David Irvine, we expect to see something more ordered and disciplined because they he have the necessary experience to understand that everything must be ordered.
On the other hand, what put me off is that i haven't found an architecture, nor this order at maidsafe, instead i have found podcasts.

With age I would start to lose my memory, I will have to start writing everything, arrange it, put it in place so as not to forget it, and don't lose people around me.
It was an education I received from my father, and I have been punished all my life for discipline and order. I applied this method and it is thanks to that that I succeed in my career.

Now that I have recruited a mentor, spokesperson and representative who arranges and structures my ideas, validates the work done, I am lucky that he is an IT consultant whom I seek advices from, very Respectuous, resonable, and I told him that I can have many ideas and that I need help to structure all that, you can say that he does a lot of baby sitting with me , i know that i have defects and I try to correct them.

But to say that I betrayed maidsafe simply because I pointed out the error committed by David Irvine is serious. I remind you that at 40-50 years you can remarry, make a normal life again, it is not like you were 70 years old. But when there is something, I can not be hypocritical and silent, it is not my style.
And I was not disrespectful, I was threatening yes with development, it is my right to ask my supplier to do his job properly because I have to answer my investors, it is not logical that the core tells you to dig when you ask for information, or that it does not have time to talk and redirecting to the podcasts.

It is also my right to give my personal opinion when I say that it is managed like an IT sect, because I can not imagine a developer listening to 300 hours of podcasts, at the rate of 8 hours a day, he would go crazy, That's why I said to delete them because they have no utility.

Dude it is you who doesn't want to listen. You keep repeating yourself and ignoring the response.

What is about SAFE specifically that you want to learn about? Do you want to learn about Data Chains (more effort than learning about blockchain from scratch), or do you want to learn about Routing (that's a really big one and not for the faint of heart), or Data republish, or Node ageing, do you just want to take a look through the APIs? Perhaps you want to see more on how the economics and farming rewards will work? Or is SAFEcoin itself more interesting to you?

OORRRRR do you want to see some very broad big picture stuff so you can find out where you want to dive in? If you want the broad big picture stuff to get the 10,000 ft view then yes, I'd say the blog and some of the videos and podcasts are a great place to START. There are not 300 hours there and David has only appeared in handful of them, but there are plenty of good ones to get you started. Once you get a picture of how all the pieces fit together THEN you can dive into specific things with plenty of documentation to guide you - RFCs, mountains of code, plenty of text write ups and whitepapers, mathematical analysis and a dedicated developer forum to ask questions in etc.

You went to David with a question like "So, this new internet thing, how does it work, I want a single document explaining it all for me?" He is way too busy to guide anyone through the answer to that question. Of course there is no short answer to it. As he said, dive in and ask questions. It is hard work, many developers who are used to much simpler ideas and projects do shy away from it. Its value is not determined by the ease with which you can grasp it all from documentation in one place though. Its value will come from the utility of the product if it works - just like the current web it seeks to replace.

I don't know why you keep referring to the podcasts rather than all the text links. You already had your crowdsale, you should already have the 10,000ft view. I think the reason David gave those links as well is because you did not seem to understand what SAFE is or how it works. You said you had created safenet10.0 on your own in a few days. Of course that sounds crazy, so David linked you to information that would help a noob get the big picture of how it all works. You didn't even bother to investigate though, you just declared that you know best and the project can't work because it is too big to put in one document.

I do get emotional about maidsafe because it is a very important project. That browser you love so much was built by someone in the community with donations funded by us last year - before crypto exploded and money was more of an issue. I personally donated 1btc towards it back then. You are right that I feel passionately about this, but I think I do it for the right reasons.

No one wants or needs nvo money though - apart from your investors.

BIGbtc, a random forum member, kept asking for it, that's just his way. No one else is trying to solicit money from you. Please show me any evidence of anyone from maidsafe asking for money when not in response to being offered it?

All you have to do to stop me posting here is to stop posting inaccurate and misleading things about maidsafe.

Young people are more creative and usually more idealistic and enthusiastic too. I'm all for young people . I was all for nemgun when I first heard about the project and spoke to him in PM. But if you were in school uniform for two years after the birth of a project then it's probably wise to be a tiny bit humble and recognise that you have very little experience next to these other folks though. It was just the audacity of it that got me. Vitalik never showed this kind of disrespect to David and he was younger with more achievements behind him, they discussed the differences in their approaches and philosophies in a civilised way, and Vitalik showed and was shown respect. I apologise if I came off as age-ist, that was not my intent. I was just trying to hammer home why he should maybe be a little bit humble before he really knows what he is talking about - there is no way he can understand what SAFE is or how it really works yet, it takes weeks/months of dedicated work for that, even for a super-bright young coder with lots of blockchain experience (since SAFE is nothing like a blockchain).

Anyway, I get your point, I should not be so personal. I just feel a little betrayed since I stood up for nvo and quite liked numgun before yesterday's episode. Cheeky bugger speaking to David like that with no evidence, really made me angry and upset me... as you can probably tell.

Anyway, I'll leave it there. People can make up their own minds.

The fact is that no one even wanted to hear what tried to say, i repeated in all my posts that they need an architecture, not podcasts, when you recruit developers to work on a project, you don't ask them to listen for 300 hours of podcasts, you give them requirements and you tell them what to do, it is not preparing a cake and taste it after, even the cooks have recipes, designs ... Only an amateur could think that podcasts could solve the problem, it is like your grany, listening to recipes on the radio, but i don't she was a stared chief or restaurant manager just by listening to radio, you need to study in order to manage that.

If you want to ignore it, i will respect your decision.


As i said, you talk your life, your devotion to maidsafe, these are emotions, i am objective, maybe you feel nostalgic because of the years you spent there. I know that it is made with rust, the browser is made with electron, javascript and html, using the different depencies.
When i said "in the name of c ++, java, and php" i meant "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit", it was geek joke, sadly you didn't understood.



Welcome to the forum, are you an investor to say that the investors want to be refunded ? I concluded that your unique problem is the funds collected by the crowdsale as it apears to be bothering you, we won't give money blindly to maidsafe, as many users in the safenetforum wants to. I said that we were ready to fund developers to work on maidsafe, as only an architecture can provide the requirements, which will result in the required skills, it alse tells you where you are, and where you are going, i have been asked to dig in order to find these answers, this is how i understood that the project is managed in a chaotic way. The only way to solve the issue is to delet everything and start with an architecture, a starting plan, something organized and ordered, and most of all structured.
Be sure that i asked Yani, myself, developers and two consultants wether they could work with the actual state, they said no because it is disoredered and they have troubles to find a starting point.
that's why i said that it would be better to erase everything and start with new basics, as it is like asking a builder to build a home without a plan, there will be no harmony, no sismic calculation, it is the same. I am giving examples to carry a message i want you to understand. The result would be simply offered to the maidsafe community, but i see that it annoyed you, i have been asked to give money instead, people mocking me, no one even tried to know what i was talking about. I offered a technology, developers, a smart investment, and no Jabba i don't have time to investigate, i too busy to try to help maidsafe in the background, one of the team members will soon meet David Irvine, he will simply tell him, if you need a logical help, no problem, and we ask nothing in return. Else you have a solution in the next 3 months, it is very simple.

I am abrasive when i see something wrong, it is normal that i get angry. I just asked something elementary, the order, your organization. No one answered that. The subject have even been rerouted to the kardashians.

That's right - and they've said they're going to do it in 4 months. And they already managed to get it working by accident apparently.

They also didn't realise that the SafeNet is already running under testing & say the code is fundamentally flawed (but cannot comment on what this flaw is).

The bizare arrogance / ignorance / nastiness of the NVO team is strange to see play out.

It's a shame that they managed to get $7m from people, and I hope their Escrows offer refunds to anyone who can now clearly see the disgusting character of this team.

Thanks Jabba for making sure there is accountability for what the NVO team has been saying.

However, there's nothing wrong with being 26 - just a lot wrong with being arrogant, abrasive, ignorant, untruthful, threatening, and the likes

That is funny if they want to build their own safenet. It seems 10+ years of development is not enough and they can do better  

Please don't issue threats. There is nothing you can do to me or David or Maidsafe. I'm a 40 year old father of two who's retired, not some silly kid who will be 'warned off' by a childish threat (FYI, grown-ups don't make threats, that strictly the preserve of children).

I am not a spokesperson for the community. I'm a member of it and I feel guilty for speaking up in support of your project, so now I feel that I have a responsibility to be equally vocal now that I see how wrong I was.

This whole mess is 100% your making. You were as rude as I have EVER heard someone be to David, purely insulting right from the start. At first I thought it was a language barrier, but now I see it is just that you are 26 and very immature... threats, I mean really?! You know where threats end up don't you? Either in court or in a spiral of malicious action. Threats won't get you anywhere.

"Thank you little jesus 2.0 for your conception of crappy coding, with your shitty safenetwork, to realize that I have sinned in a code, and haven't even found a virus, nothing, so it is rotten. I hope that the great david irvine could excuse my javascript. On this, in the name of c ++, java, and php, I ask you to clear this thread before I get angry."

This makes no sense at all. And you know SAFE is written in RUST right? Of course you do, you have made a qualified judgement about the code that you never read and only just discovered doesn't have an overarching single document for...

I strongly recommend you not issue any more threats to anyone here or on maidsafe forum. It does not make you look or sound good. If you have proof of anything bad in maidsafe then please show it publicly. No threats required. I am not interested in maidsafe if there is something bad about them, if they are a scam then I and everyone else deserve to know about it - although I'd say no 26 year old could know that after a few weeks of looking, it is too big a project for that. After 2 years of my own DD I am totally confident that maidsafe is 100% legit, If I'm wrong I'd love to know why, so don't threaten, just reveal.

Personal threats against me are truly bizarre and make me more than a little bit angry, as you can probably tell. Are you threatening physical violence against me? Should I contact the authorities to report it? There is no other obvious way to attack me since I'm retired? Hurt my rep? I don't have one. I'm just a lowly cryptophile investor and no one gives a crap about me, nor do I give a damn what anyone thinks.

As I said, I will only post to correct lies and misinformation, if you don't want me to post then please stop posting trash and rubbish; you caused this whole mess by being as rude as any person has ever been to anyone else. I find it amazing that you have found a way to try to project blame elsewhere, but the thread is there for anyone to read. From post 770 onwards. https://safenetforum.org/t/nvo-decentralized-exchange-crowdsale/13608/1086

I think we should let folks make up their own minds eh? Since it is all maidsafe's fault I'm sure you agree that investors should go read it all and make up their own minds. Then everyone will see just how rational and calm you are and how rude and unfair the community were to you  

"jesus"

What because I stand up for people who I think are being wronged and I try to do the right thing? I did the same with you when I thought you were being wrongly attacked. I spoke up and defended you many times, now I feel that maidsafe have been wronged I will defend them, that's what all people do isn't it, stand up for what they think is right? If you can produce real evidence to show maidsafe is a 'scam' then I would really appreciate seeing it and I'd thank you for it and for saving me from my own mistake. I think you have a moral duty to share really, since maidsafe have a lot of people's money invested and those investors deserve to know if there's some reason that the code can't make good on the promises they've made. As I said though, the community is full of PhDs and IT professionals, what have you discovered that none of these other people who each have decades more experience than you did not?

I am not going to quote your message, or try to answer your questions because you are promoting me, i asked David Irvine to give me an architecture, even rebuilding the world would need an architecture, he sent me to the podcasts. Continue like that and i will untrust you, and a full scam accusation of maidsafe, and i have enough arguments to lay down maidsafe, except that i am thinking about its investors.
When i joined the NVO team, i was a supporter, i asked if maidsafe will be ready in 4 months, they said for sure, they are working hard, there are updates. I told them that maidsafe is an eventual scam, they told me no worries they are not, they work.

Even my decision to join have been well though as i already had my own personal thoughts and solutions for that, else, i wouldn't have puted my name here.
Regarding the rest of the plan, i invite you to visite google one day, ask them for an architecture, they won't give you podcasts or ask you to dig informations. When you ask someone to dig, to do researches it means, you have a budget, have fun with that, discover, create. With zero budget i understood many things, and i creating my own decentralized internet as i need it for NVO.

You acted like the spokesperson of the investors while you are not, and you made suggestions to the team ... I think that you know what i mean. now i advise you not to annoy me before then i decide to put my intelligence at the disposal of your provocation as well as thows of David Irvine, I advise you to be interested in your project, and give a result in 3 months more than try to troll me.

I advise you to be very careful jabba, you and dirvine.

I didn't wanted to read the full post you made, i just checked the start, and i advise you to leave this thread, Unless you want to harm david irvine. Know that i have enough elements to proof that maidsafe is ...

Thank you little jesus 2.0 for your conception of crappy coding, with your shitty safenetwork, to realize that I have sinned in a code, and haven't even found a virus, nothing, so it is rotten. I hope that the great david irvine could excuse my javascript. On this, in the name of c ++, java, and php, I ask you to clear this thread before I get angry.

First off, I'm not trolling, I'm giving an honest personal opinion disclaimed by the information that I am a SAFEnet fanboy and therefore a little biased.

As you have already been told, SAFE is too big to have a single all encompassing document. There is no single document to describe all the web architecture either. As neo pointed out to you

"That is like asking for the unified (or single solidified) architecture for the internet protocols. You won’t get it and it doesn’t exist, incomplete overviews do exist. That is because the internet is made up of a number of protocols, TCP/IP, UDP, HTTP, HTTPS, SMTP, NTP, UseNet, and so on.

Similar while SAFE is being built there is not going to be any unified document of the architecture."

Ok, now to this crazy youtube/podcast business you keep referring back to. David hasn't made any podcasts?! He has been interviewed a few times ofc, he linked you to all kinds of different data to get some background. Really, if you have already held the crowdsale one would have expected you to look properly at Maidsafe first no? The TEXT is all there for you to read. Whitepapers, repositories, code etc are all there for anyone brave enough to get stuck in. SAFE is not some simple little blockchain project that can be knocked out in a few months, it is new protocols and new layers of internet architecture.

If you take the time to look at the actual code and read the whitepapers and the blog or wiki you will find out just how big this beast really is and why you were laughed at for saying you'd knocked out a safenet 10.0 over the last two weeks.

As for getting an IT consultant to review it, jeepers, you do realise we have members of the community who have been in IT for over 40 years and worked on the original web protocols? It would be a hard job to find someone more qualified to review it all and it would take them many months, not a few days or even hours of dismissive confusion.

My post clearly said that those who did invest because of maidsafe (check my first post in this thread) would probably bail, which ofc they will, I did not say everyone only invested because of maidsafe - although I suspect many people will lose confidence seeing your break away from them.

Your comments about getting listed on exchanges etc don't make any sense. You do realise Maid was listed in 2014 as an omni asset and it went straight on polo after breaking crowdsale records at the time (modest by modern standards)? Maid went on exchanges because there was huge demand for it then, that's also why it was a top 10 asset on coinmarketcap for 2 years. I don't know what the reference to bnktothefuture are about, that was a recent raise and no one has ever made any 'promises'. You are talking trash and there is zero substance to it.

I don't think you're a bad guy, I think you are arrogant and naive. I also think you'll feel the consequences of your mistakes over the last 24 hours much sooner than you think.

I was not trolling you and I will not continue this discussion if you don't want me to, but you have to let me respond to your crazy and inaccurate statements. What kind of $100M+ project is based on podcasts?! Of course text and code is all that matters. Did you watch any of those "300"??!! hours? Was David on any of them? Please check your facts before you slander good people. There is no single document because it is a huge machine with many cogs, all of which are clearly documented. David never solicited you for money, that was a forum user, David just said if you want to give them money they'd take it.

Anyway, I didn't invest so there's no need for me to get any more involved. I just felt bad for having spoken up for the project when there was criticism early in that thread. I've learned my lesson and will just stay out of it unless I really know better next time. It is a shame, you are a good guy and we were becoming friends, but you've walked so far in the wrong direction now that I fear it will be too hard to turn back to the right course by the time you realise your mistake and what SAFE is about to become.

Anyway, I've said my piece, I'll only respond to correct inaccuracies etc if I can't help myself

Good luck

This is from your whitepaper to attract investors:

“The development of the Safenetwork has been carefully reviewed. Documentations and demonstrations have been provided showing that the project does work backed by an active development team. Although the Safenetwork biggest hurdles right now won’t be a technological one but a marketing one.”

Was this all a lie, or are you lying now? It's one or the other it seems.

Anybody wishing to dig deeper into this "pivot" and learn the views of the unhappy investors from the Safe community, many of whom are demanding a refund, then check here:

https://safenetforum.org/t/nvo-decentralized-exchange-crowdsale/13608/1086

We never said that we "pivoted" from safenet, i just decided to stop giving my opinion on the safenetforum as i asked for a global architecture because either when you build a house, a plane, you always need a global architecture as this is how you can define the required skills for the project, the required development funds. Regarding the documentations, i don't agree with the usage of multiple whitepapers, even presidents write whitepapers, but they write only one because they have only one project.
I asked for this architecture in order to planify the implementation of NVO into maidsafe, and also how will NVO help maidsafe. In exchange i received messages asking to send funds directly to maidsafe, and message asking to dig, i said that NVO will finance a part of the development.
Instead, i have been directed to podcasts, which isn't how a development company works. Irvine asked me to check this link : https://safenetforum.org/c/community/podcasts
Everyone can consult it, i found around 300 hours of podcasts there, if a developer costs 40$/hour, i would pay him 12.000$ to listen the podcasts, without starting to work. He would turn crazy imagine listening for that during 8 hours a day.
Jabba, please don't troll me here, I'm really holding on to myself, i advise not to troll me or disrespect me.
I advised to check an IT consultant, he would have said that it is catastrophic, because of this incident, and the lack of global architecture of maidsafe, i have to review the architecture of NVO and reverify it, it is not a problem, it will take about 2 weeks but i will get a result.

Once again, no one officially said that NVO "pivoted" from safenet, we gave a word and will stick to it. I said that you still have 3 months, maybe this Kick in the anthill will awake you. I said since a long time that if in 4 months if safenet isn't ready, we will have to consider different technologies.

Now, you provide a poor post saying that you are one of the supporters of maidsafe, and you haven't invested in NVO, so please don't say that NVO collected funds because of maidsafe. We loosed a lot of investors because ou choice for maidsafe.

People who invested on NVO did it for the success of the project, we have to lead it to a fruition, what ever the difficulties we will have to face. We can't be hypocritical.
I remember of an old post of dirvine who said that NVO isn't listed on all the exchanges, comparing NVST to MAID, except that he forgot how he got listed, and how he got value on exchanges.

I know who helped irvine to list the coin, i won't talk in his name, but i can tell you that this person didn't knew about the results of the project in august 2017. I could ask you to check your promises on bnktothefuture and check your old roadmap, you shouldn't continue to talk like that, and start working instead of talking.

If i was a bad guy, i would have simply said that safenet isn't ready, and sleep while they work. But it is not what we want to do, we have been honest and straight.

I advise you to stop this discussion Jabba.

---

About the sweep issues.

Please use this repository :
https://github.com/Jpja/Sweep-XCP-Paperwallet

We had a lot of good feedbacks about its usage.
If you have any issue, feel free to join us on slack for more support.

Is there any ETA when could NVO hit some bigger markets like bittrex or poloniex? The price now "isn't real".

It's overpriced at that imo. They have pivoted away from safenet and claim they can build their own safenet10.0 in the next few months instead.

I'd guess everyone who bought in because of maidsafe style security and 11 years of development work and patents will bow out asap now. It doesn't seem to have any credible associations left as far as I can see, so now it's just a couple of 20 something's with big ideas. :/

Outside of the crypto bubble an investment proposition like that might be worth two zero's less than it raised in its ico.

I'm a SAFE fanboy through and through, so perhaps I'm biased, but I'm glad I didn't invest in the end.