On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like... Taaki
Actually...
Quote from: AmirTaaki
Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 4402. (Read 9723733 times)
August 14, 2014, 08:36:34 PM
Actually...
August 14, 2014, 08:32:19 PM
The market is saying, you have the best anon solution, and the marketcap proves that. But we won't be strong armed into investing.
good lord my friend, we're not barbarians here, no one is trying to strong arm anyone. NOW BUY DARK DAMIT! lol
August 14, 2014, 08:30:00 PM
The market is saying, you have the best anon solution, and the marketcap proves that. But we won't be strong armed into investing.
good lord my friend, we're not barbarians here, no one is trying to strong arm anyone. NOW BUY DARK DAMIT! lol
August 14, 2014, 08:25:46 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
The problem is that these people are arrogant and refuse to make concessions for reality.How long was BTC developed and conceptualized in total secrecy? How long did Satoshi keep it entirely to himself?
DRK is being conceived in the open. We're observing with DRK the portions where even other current shitcoin clones are kept entirely under wraps.
We're seeing more of the development cycle in DRK than has ever been seen in any other crypto, ever. The problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that "launch" for everything else they've seen, and "launch" for DRK are NOT at ALL the same starting point.
The code may be closed, but the entire project isn't; as has always been the case before, and even currently with imitators. It's not just for the sake of stopping copypasta bullshit, but the fact that it's just not ready to be open sourced. We're seeing the pre-launch stuff that no one ever sees. We've been given a glimpse into a process historically kept entirely under wraps. And people are complaining that it isn't Open Source? The problem with these people is that they fail to grasp the concept, or they do in fact know better, but are using the fact that most people do not to push their agenda. The parties opting-out of DRK becasue it is "closed source" are only showing their hand in pimping their own pet shitcoins.
The bottom line is that no other coin has had open source code at the point of inception. No other coin has had a development process that anyone even knew about! DRK has let the community in on part of that and so the ignorant dicks complain that they didn't get everything while ignoring the reality that it's more than they ever got from any other coin in this stage of development.
When it's ready to be Open Sourced, it will be. Just like everything else. The only difference is that Evan let the world look through the window early, so they ignorantly presumed it was that far along when it was not. Now they complain that it's not open source at a stage when nothing else ever was, either...
Well, the market is calling your bluff. They are saying, we will make our own solution until you make this open source and we are staying away from this "investment scheme".
"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw.
this works in Psychology 101: Projection, as well. Those who fail to see reality as it is, often project the notion that it is not as they wish by some malevolent well. Democrats blame Republicans for the Laws of Physics, it's a Right Wing Conspiracy! It's the foundation of all good propaganda... If you're unhappy, it's not that you're in defiance of reality, oh no no no! You are NOT responsible for yourself! It's some dirty bastard making it that way... Name that person as your enemy and hate them! Blame them for everything! Become entitled to what is theirs. Be frustrated and angry! Commit violence in your own communities, then blame that on the other guy, too!
The world was let in early to observe a process that no one else ever saw in any other coin, either. Since they lack the awareness and intelligence to realize that's what happened, they think DRK is closed source and react accordingly. They're wrong, but their reactionb is still their reaction. The market is people reacting. People's reactions are based on their perceptions. Their perceptions are inaccurate because they are stupid. Same reason people fall for gun control. It's dumb as shit, but if they're fed lies and false information, they'll make decisions and form opinions based on that false information. Even the smartest brain comes to stupid conclusions when it's being operated on bad information. Think of it like a race car engine. Pump water into it instead of gas, and it doesn't work worth a shit no matter how good it is... So is the human brain. You can have the best brain ever made, pump it full of bullshit, and it comes to dumb conclusions. This is the market. This is the only concern I had for DRK; that people wouldn't be able to figure out what they were seeing, form inaccurate conclusions due to their own handicaps, etc... There is no rainbow, nevermind that I had my eyes poked out and can't see...
If your own perception mechanicsm fail to accurately interpret reality, no one can really help you. God save the voting population in which the majority becomes so stupid....
Angry, hateful, stupid people choose to see DRK/Evan's position as adversarial because they're not getting what they want and they're entitled, whiny, douche bags. Evan will happily Open Source it as soon as it gets that far. So sorry he ever let you see the beginning parts that no other coin ever let you see either... If you weren't such a bunch of pricks, you'd see reality instead of your own agenda.
No good deed goes unpunished.
On the flip side, seeing this and being able to accurately identify it is why I went all in waayyy long time ago. I'm one of the few who has the ability to see, clearly, reality as it is without prejudice or bias. It paid off.
August 14, 2014, 08:23:26 PM
hey everybody... who here registered http://darkcoin.tumblr.com?
I see it's not even used... so who squatted this, and why not give it to me?
I see it's not even used... so who squatted this, and why not give it to me?
August 14, 2014, 08:22:38 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
The problem is that these people are arrogant and refuse to make concessions for reality.How long was BTC developed and conceptualized in total secrecy? How long did Satoshi keep it entirely to himself?
DRK is being conceived in the open. We're observing with DRK the portions where even other current shitcoin clones are kept entirely under wraps.
We're seeing more of the development cycle in DRK than has ever been seen in any other crypto, ever. The problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that "launch" for everything else they've seen, and "launch" for DRK are NOT at ALL the same starting point.
The code may be closed, but the entire project isn't; as has always been the case before, and even currently with imitators. It's not just for the sake of stopping copypasta bullshit, but the fact that it's just not ready to be open sourced. We're seeing the pre-launch stuff that no one ever sees. We've been given a glimpse into a process historically kept entirely under wraps. And people are complaining that it isn't Open Source? The problem with these people is that they fail to grasp the concept, or they do in fact know better, but are using the fact that most people do not to push their agenda. The parties opting-out of DRK becasue it is "closed source" are only showing their hand in pimping their own pet shitcoins.
The bottom line is that no other coin has had open source code at the point of inception. No other coin has had a development process that anyone even knew about! DRK has let the community in on part of that and so the ignorant dicks complain that they didn't get everything while ignoring the reality that it's more than they ever got from any other coin in this stage of development.
When it's ready to be Open Sourced, it will be. Just like everything else. The only difference is that Evan let the world look through the window early, so they ignorantly presumed it was that far along when it was not. Now they complain that it's not open source at a stage when nothing else ever was, either...
In my view, the reverse is happening. The drk team is saying these are our rules and if you want anonymity you must buy drk. In return we give you Btc api compatibility, proven resistant nodes and anonymity. But this is closed source until we perfect it.
Well, the market is calling your bluff. They are saying, we will make our own solution until you make this open source and we are staying away from this "investment scheme".
August 14, 2014, 08:21:23 PM
The market is saying, you have the best anon solution, and the marketcap proves that. But we won't be strong armed into investing.
August 14, 2014, 08:18:58 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
Yes you make an excellent point. With a name like Darkcoin, we are only going to attract the underworld... We will never get mass merchant adoption with this name, but hey, maybe Evan doesn't want mass market adoption...As Alex pointed out previously, 1% of 1% will still make us a project with enough zero's after it to see us all comfortable for the rest of our days...
It think the names makes a point. I still don't think it was a good idea, but I see it as much less of an issue than I used to. It's more of a John Hancock now. It's bold and it isn't trying to hide what it's all about. I like that.
August 14, 2014, 08:18:14 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
The problem is that these people are arrogant and refuse to make concessions for reality.How long was BTC developed and conceptualized in total secrecy? How long did Satoshi keep it entirely to himself?
DRK is being conceived in the open. We're observing with DRK the portions where even other current shitcoin clones are kept entirely under wraps.
We're seeing more of the development cycle in DRK than has ever been seen in any other crypto, ever. The problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that "launch" for everything else they've seen, and "launch" for DRK are NOT at ALL the same starting point.
The code may be closed, but the entire project isn't; as has always been the case before, and even currently with imitators. It's not just for the sake of stopping copypasta bullshit, but the fact that it's just not ready to be open sourced. We're seeing the pre-launch stuff that no one ever sees. We've been given a glimpse into a process historically kept entirely under wraps. And people are complaining that it isn't Open Source? The problem with these people is that they fail to grasp the concept, or they do in fact know better, but are using the fact that most people do not to push their agenda. The parties opting-out of DRK becasue it is "closed source" are only showing their hand in pimping their own pet shitcoins.
The bottom line is that no other coin has had open source code at the point of inception. No other coin has had a development process that anyone even knew about! DRK has let the community in on part of that and so the ignorant dicks complain that they didn't get everything while ignoring the reality that it's more than they ever got from any other coin in this stage of development.
When it's ready to be Open Sourced, it will be. Just like everything else. The only difference is that Evan let the world look through the window early, so they ignorantly presumed it was that far along when it was not. Now they complain that it's not open source at a stage when nothing else ever was, either...
In my view, the reverse is happening. The drk team is saying these are our rules and if you want anonymity you must buy drk. In return we give you Btc api compatibility, proven resistant nodes and anonymity. But this is closed source until we perfect it.
Well, the market is calling your bluff. They are saying, we will make our own solution until you make this open source and we are staying away from this "investment scheme".
August 14, 2014, 08:14:01 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
The problem is that these people are arrogant and refuse to make concessions for reality.How long was BTC developed and conceptualized in total secrecy? How long did Satoshi keep it entirely to himself?
DRK is being conceived in the open. We're observing with DRK the portions where even other current shitcoin clones are kept entirely under wraps.
We're seeing more of the development cycle in DRK than has ever been seen in any other crypto, ever. The problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that "launch" for everything else they've seen, and "launch" for DRK are NOT at ALL the same starting point.
The code may be closed, but the entire project isn't; as has always been the case before, and even currently with imitators. It's not just for the sake of stopping copypasta bullshit, but the fact that it's just not ready to be open sourced. We're seeing the pre-launch stuff that no one ever sees. We've been given a glimpse into a process historically kept entirely under wraps. And people are complaining that it isn't Open Source? The problem with these people is that they fail to grasp the concept, or they do in fact know better, but are using the fact that most people do not to push their agenda. The parties opting-out of DRK becasue it is "closed source" are only showing their hand in pimping their own pet shitcoins.
The bottom line is that no other coin has had open source code at the point of inception. No other coin has had a development process that anyone even knew about! DRK has let the community in on part of that and so the ignorant dicks complain that they didn't get everything while ignoring the reality that it's more than they ever got from any other coin in this stage of development.
When it's ready to be Open Sourced, it will be. Just like everything else. The only difference is that Evan let the world look through the window early, so they ignorantly presumed it was that far along when it was not. Now they complain that it's not open source at a stage when nothing else ever was, either...
With that ...I secede! Well elocuted!
August 14, 2014, 08:13:53 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
Yes you make an excellent point. With a name like Darkcoin, we are only going to attract the underworld... We will never get mass merchant adoption with this name, but hey, maybe Evan doesn't want mass market adoption...
As Alex pointed out previously, 1% of 1% will still make us a project with enough zero's after it to see us all comfortable for the rest of our days...
But the flipside to my own argument is, the name Darkcoin got me to notice this project in the first place. It's sexy and it encompasses a lot of what this coin is about... So it has pros and it's cons...
August 14, 2014, 08:13:12 PM
Yes...we need to get the word out...to those 1% that are looking to shed the shackles, we need to educate those that want this, need this.
You've got it backwards...People who are earnestly looking for a way to shed their shackles would be looking for it. Actively. They'd be putting more effort into it than anything else in their lives. It would be difficult for them not to find DRK.
They're not finding their salvation because they don't care enough to go get it.
Because most people like their shackles.
The issue is that these people refuse to live and let live. They chose slavery, and they're going to create a government and use it to force you into slavery, too.
I don't want to force crypto on anyone. I don't even care to tell them. I just want them to fuck off and leave me alone. Live and let live... But they refuse. The so-called peace-lovers egging on their armies of government, police, propaganda, lies, laws, and soldiers... These are the ones who just plain refuse to leave people like me/us alone. They claim to be all about compassion and love and peace and harmony, but they refuse to live and let live.
This is why I love my guns. One way or another, I will not live under their boot.
August 14, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
yeah true....the masses will never completely or even remotely brace crypto....
We actually don't need the masses. Even 1% of fiat marketcap is enough. And if 1% of that 1% is private, that's enough for DRK too.
Total money supply (M3) for EU and USA should be more >25 trillion USD. If we add the rest of the planet, that's ...a lot.
Anyway 1% of that is 250 billion USD.
1% of that 1% is 2.5bn USD for the anon marketcap.
And 99% can enjoy fiat
Same goes for gold/silver/platinum/palladium investors who generally dislike or hedge fiat. The marketcap of the physical should be around 10 trillion USD easy (gold is upwards of 7 trillion in itself). If you go to the marketcap of physical+paper, that's even more...
The cryptomarket is still too small.
Wow. Nice post. Really put into perspective just how small this is. Kinda like that cosmos intro where they keep pulling out further and further away from earth and the milky way
August 14, 2014, 08:10:23 PM
When you show people the holy grail and it looks good but then stop them from playing with it, they are going to make their own holy grail. I'm observing all this stuff happening in real time. And one of these days, a holy grail will come along that is better than this holy grail.
August 14, 2014, 08:10:03 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
Yes you make an excellent point. With a name like Darkcoin, we are only going to attract the underworld... We will never get mass merchant adoption with this name, but hey, maybe Evan doesn't want mass market adoption...
As Alex pointed out previously, 1% of 1% will still make us a project with enough zero's after it to see us all comfortable for the rest of our days...
August 14, 2014, 08:09:03 PM
I think Kristov's review will be key. That provides the rubber stamp.
I sympathize for his job, as he is not reviewing static code but rather something that is constantly changing / evolving / reprogrammed to new functionality. You can't really rubber stamp if you have to face this (otherwise positive) problem.
Quote
This has been my only long-standing concern for DRK; are even the crypto-people too stupid to see what it can do?
Crypto-traders, buyers, etc do not usually understand technical concepts, not necessarily because they are stupid, but because they might lack the knowledge to properly evaluate stuff.
1. We've seen that in "complex" coins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-counterparty-xcp-severely-undervalued-637645 (read post #2 and post #9 by me)
2. We've seen that in the anonymous market: a lot of people were unable to properly evaluate the worthiness of certain coins in the marketplace. People were getting excited by vapor, believing FUD as truth, claiming scummy P&Ds are innovative anonymous coins, equating DRK being trustless and decentralized with other trusted and centralized solutions, not understanding the difference between actual coins that can be used versus proof-of-concept coins etc etc.
I agree...I think with time people can get over the Darkcoin name...wouldn't have been my first choice for a world anon currency, but it is unique and it is a statement. I have this with my own winery name...I picked something completely out of the ordinary- Misconduct Wine Co. and we now have a growing cult following in high end restuarants and select stores. In the snoddy world of wine...it took alot of time. But everyone remembers it and gets what we are about. There is still 50% of the old guard wine consumers that flip their nose up...but today we had one of the top private wine collectors come in and rant and wave about our wines! Time....friends time. Evan knows what he is doing...
come on...i'm trying to keep positive
lol. Again...there are those with business acumen that get it about how important a name can be to success. There are many though in this ecosystem that are all about what I respectful would call "Sheldon" mind frame and comic con type mentality. D&D and "tea party" anti government and some that don't care about the subtlety of things. I'm not against any of these people...and at times see eye to eye on many things. The problem is this is the fringe of society...less then a fraction of a percent. Makes it harder I agree. We'll see...a rebrand is always a positive thing...so who knows. August 14, 2014, 08:07:05 PM
Heads up, everyone living under oppressive regimes needs this technology. Some might include the US in that. Personally, I think it's good to have privacy safeguards. You never know when you're going to need it. Protecting the code will only alienate people and force them to develop alternate solutions. See Dark Wallet, Cloak, XC, Monero etc... All that talent is being splintered, doing parallel anon tech with very mixed results. Don't think the Russians can't develop the bomb because history shows they did. Even North Korea has nukes.
August 14, 2014, 08:04:57 PM
On the other hand there are lots of smart people staying away from darkcoin who normally love privacy and anonymity. People like Andreas Antonop, Taaki even Gmaxwell. Personally, I think the darkcoin code works and is bloody brilliant but the closed source nature is driving talent away. Also, you guys are going to hate me for saying this but the name divides. Maybe that's what you guys want and I'm not bothered by it but uninformed people will tend to assume sinister motives simply because of the word dark. Ok, some of you will say we don't care; let Evan finish coding and we'll stick with the name. In that case, we can't complain about the current price. And I know many of you don't care about price. But it all adds up.
The problem is that these people are arrogant and refuse to make concessions for reality.How long was BTC developed and conceptualized in total secrecy? How long did Satoshi keep it entirely to himself?
DRK is being conceived in the open. We're observing with DRK the portions where even other current shitcoin clones are kept entirely under wraps.
We're seeing more of the development cycle in DRK than has ever been seen in any other crypto, ever. The problem is that most people are too stupid to realize that "launch" for everything else they've seen, and "launch" for DRK are NOT at ALL the same starting point.
The code may be closed, but the entire project isn't; as has always been the case before, and even currently with imitators. It's not just for the sake of stopping copypasta bullshit, but the fact that it's just not ready to be open sourced. We're seeing the pre-launch stuff that no one ever sees. We've been given a glimpse into a process historically kept entirely under wraps. And people are complaining that it isn't Open Source? The problem with these people is that they fail to grasp the concept, or they do in fact know better, but are using the fact that most people do not to push their agenda. The parties opting-out of DRK becasue it is "closed source" are only showing their hand in pimping their own pet shitcoins.
The bottom line is that no other coin has had open source code at the point of inception. No other coin has had a development process that anyone even knew about! DRK has let the community in on part of that and so the ignorant dicks complain that they didn't get everything while ignoring the reality that it's more than they ever got from any other coin in this stage of development.
When it's ready to be Open Sourced, it will be. Just like everything else. The only difference is that Evan let the world look through the window early, so they ignorantly presumed it was that far along when it was not. Now they complain that it's not open source at a stage when nothing else ever was, either...
August 14, 2014, 08:04:02 PM
I think Kristov's review will be key. That provides the rubber stamp.
I sympathize for his job, as he is not reviewing static code but rather something that is constantly changing / evolving / reprogrammed to new functionality. You can't really rubber stamp if you have to face this (otherwise positive) problem.
Quote
This has been my only long-standing concern for DRK; are even the crypto-people too stupid to see what it can do?
Crypto-traders, buyers, etc do not usually understand technical concepts, not necessarily because they are stupid, but because they might lack the knowledge to properly evaluate stuff.
1. We've seen that in "complex" coins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-counterparty-xcp-severely-undervalued-637645 (read post #2 and post #9 by me)
2. We've seen that in the anonymous market: a lot of people were unable to properly evaluate the worthiness of certain coins in the marketplace. People were getting excited by vapor, believing FUD as truth, claiming scummy P&Ds are innovative anonymous coins, equating DRK being trustless and decentralized with other trusted and centralized solutions, not understanding the difference between actual coins that can be used versus proof-of-concept coins etc etc.
That's an extremely good observation and I agree with you 100%... If you want the Mum and Dad investors to invest you have to communicate with them at their level...
Know your audience!
August 14, 2014, 07:59:17 PM
I think Kristov's review will be key. That provides the rubber stamp.
I sympathize for his job, as he is not reviewing static code but rather something that is constantly changing / evolving / reprogrammed to new functionality. You can't really rubber stamp if you have to face this (otherwise positive) problem.
Quote
This has been my only long-standing concern for DRK; are even the crypto-people too stupid to see what it can do?
Crypto-traders, buyers, etc do not usually understand technical concepts, not necessarily because they are stupid, but because they might lack the knowledge to properly evaluate stuff.
1. We've seen that in "complex" coins: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-counterparty-xcp-severely-undervalued-637645 (read post #2 and post #9 by me)
2. We've seen that in the anonymous market: a lot of people were unable to properly evaluate the worthiness of certain coins in the marketplace. People were getting excited by vapor, believing FUD as truth, claiming scummy P&Ds are innovative anonymous coins, equating DRK being trustless and decentralized with other trusted and centralized solutions, not understanding the difference between actual coins that can be used versus proof-of-concept coins etc etc.
I agree...I think with time people can get over the Darkcoin name...wouldn't have been my first choice for a world anon currency, but it is unique and it is a statement. I have this with my own winery name...I picked something completely out of the ordinary- Misconduct Wine Co. and we now have a growing cult following in high end restuarants and select stores. In the snoddy world of wine...it took alot of time. But everyone remembers it and gets what we are about. There is still 50% of the old guard wine consumers that flip their nose up...but today we had one of the top private wine collectors come in and rant and wave about our wines! Time....friends time. Evan knows what he is doing...
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