[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 4544.

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: Phillis on August 03, 2014, 08:21:54 AM

well, i think this is a precautionary issue. Why run the risk with using an american company and/or hosting your masternode in the US? There are plenty of comparable hosting companies located outside of the US. It will cost the same/cheaper and you are further decentralizing the network, by not having 50% of the masternodes ran in the US by amazon. Why run the risk when it can be avoided?

yes i agree
(and i will get my next MN somewhere else)
but
that whole paranoia that the NSA is everywhere and can do anything
is just bullshit !
you might see that in hollywood movies
but not happening in real life !
Grin

toknormal

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1188

Quote from: thelonecrouton on August 03, 2014, 08:10:24 AM

Etherium is basically just NXT with some homebrew scipting language built in that makes it easy to create apps that both the developer and the user have to go on paying to use, endlessly.

Thats one way to look at it.

Another way is that it could just blow everything to kingdom come because it completely liberates the transport layer from the functional layer.

DRK has done that to some extent with its masternode approach, but crypto is in its infancy. Everything thats gone up till now could just be little experiments for what ultimately goes mainstream.

Antennae need to be perked.

Phillis

sr. member

Activity: 404

Merit: 500

well, i think this is a precautionary issue. Why run the risk with using an american company and/or hosting your masternode in the US? There are plenty of comparable hosting companies located outside of the US. It will cost the same/cheaper and you are further decentralizing the network, by not having 50% of the masternodes ran in the US by amazon. Why run the risk when it can be avoided?

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: thelonecrouton on August 03, 2014, 08:18:01 AM

Quote from: GhostPlayer on August 03, 2014, 08:02:16 AM

Dont be overly paranoid without justification.

A few months ago the CIA blatantly funded the violent overthrow of the peacefully, democratically elected government of Ukraine and installed a bunch of neonazi clowns because the Ukrainians told the EU by referendum that it wanted no part of their economic disaster-bloc, leading to the current ongoing shitstorm.

How much justification do you need? Roll Eyes

Burying you head in the sand and hoping they wont come for you one day isn't the way to deal with bullies.

was that on Fox News that the CIA was involved !
man you gotta change your channel and NOT believe everything on your TV !

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: GhostPlayer on August 03, 2014, 08:02:16 AM

Dont be overly paranoid without justification.

A few months ago the CIA blatantly funded the violent overthrow of the peacefully, democratically elected government of Ukraine and installed a bunch of neonazi clowns because the Ukrainians told the EU by referendum that it wanted no part of their economic disaster-bloc, leading to the current ongoing shitstorm.

How much justification do you need? Roll Eyes

Burying you head in the sand and hoping they wont come for you one day isn't the way to deal with bullies.

Finding some way to drastically reduce the harm that any government or organisation can do to Darkcoin is exactly what we should be thinking about.

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: ImI on August 03, 2014, 08:09:01 AM

Quote from: tungfa on August 03, 2014, 08:07:12 AM

Quote from: ImI on August 03, 2014, 08:05:21 AM

etherum is interesting but afaik the sale will go on for a while.

at the moment marketcap is at 7Mio$ and its still climbing. i expect it to be something like 40mio$ in the end.

so it comes to the question what reward chance is there left if everybody who wanted to buy some has got some....

raising 21,240,314 ETH / 10,620 BTC .... 6,202,171 US$ !! ... WTF (and counting) ....>>>

exactly. and where will it be in 30 days? 40mio? i dont expect much profit potential tbh.
[/quot

oh it is crazy !
they are raising more cash than ever needed
what are they gonna do ?
program on golden computers .... Grin

.....>

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: toknormal on August 03, 2014, 07:58:24 AM

Quote from: thelonecrouton on August 03, 2014, 07:45:43 AM

Are you kidding? Endless Ether supply - you have to keep buying the stuff to keep your miracle Etherium app running on their platform

I know. I'm not quite savvy with the details of how the money supply works. All the same, I saw it as a cardinal technology ergo: mandatory to have a horse in that race. I like Vitalik - I think he's one of the most switched on people in crypto, albeit who probably has a few learning experiences to go through yet.

Also, Etherium has a "big corporate" air about - in relative terms at least - which doesn't go down too well in crypto circles.

The thing is, things are going to get VERY interesting once it launches. It's a generic approach and so should be able to form anything at the flick of a switch including "anon" coins.

On the other hand, traditional approaches like DRK and NXT have come quite a long way and are getting through their "right of passage" phases.

People need to have their antennae perked because if this thing works its impact may be felt across the whole crypto-economy.

We do not know how things are going to go.

Etherium is basically just NXT with some homebrew scipting language built in that makes it easy to create apps that both the developer and the user have to go on paying to use, endlessly.

It might be clever in an academic way but it's about as smart as maidsafe... but you're right, people will buy anything... Undecided

ImI

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1019

Quote from: tungfa on August 03, 2014, 08:07:12 AM

Quote from: ImI on August 03, 2014, 08:05:21 AM

etherum is interesting but afaik the sale will go on for a while.

at the moment marketcap is at 7Mio$ and its still climbing. i expect it to be something like 40mio$ in the end.

so it comes to the question what reward chance is there left if everybody who wanted to buy some has got some....

raising 21,240,314 ETH / 10,620 BTC .... 6,202,171 US$ !! ... WTF (and counting) ....>>>

exactly. and where will it be in 30 days? 40mio? i dont expect much profit potential tbh.

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: ImI on August 03, 2014, 08:05:21 AM

etherum is interesting but afaik the sale will go on for a while.

at the moment marketcap is at 7Mio$ and its still climbing. i expect it to be something like 40mio$ in the end.

so it comes to the question what reward chance is there left if everybody who wanted to buy some has got some....

raising 21,240,314 ETH / 10,620 BTC .... 6,202,171 US$ !! ... WTF (and counting) ....>>>

ImI

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1019

etherum is interesting but afaik the sale will go on for a while.

at the moment marketcap is at 7Mio$ and its still climbing. i expect it to be something like 40mio$ in the end.

so it comes to the question what reward chance is there left if everybody who wanted to buy some has got some....

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: thelonecrouton on August 03, 2014, 07:55:40 AM

Quote from: tungfa on August 03, 2014, 07:49:43 AM

Quote from: Phillis on August 03, 2014, 07:42:28 AM

the reasons why people should avoid US companies is due to the NSA revelations and to similar stories of lavabit. Basically, if you run something that the US government does not want, they will go after you, which in this case would be to go after masternodes.

Lets not forget this: http://lavabit.com/

US based sure, but internationally ?
No way,
what you think these agent are gonna come to Hong Kong, Japan, Iceland, China, Russia ,..... and shut everybody down ?
NO WAY !
the NSA can play in their backyard as much as they want
internationally nobody gives a flying fuxx ..... Grin

.....>>

Jesus Christ, take a look at US foreign policy for the last hundred years. They are not big believers in live and let live, and every country in the West bends over whenever the US says so.

Brits have been extradited to the US without ever having committed any crime in the UK, because the fucking MPAA buys the laws. You think whoever the spineless worm is that's in power in your country is going to stand up for your rights when Uncle Sam comes knocking? Open your eyes mate.

That is how you (as an American) see your Government,
here (outside US) we are just laughing at this !
The UK maybe .... anybody else ?
NOOOOOOO
Grin

i am still smiling

GhostPlayer

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Will people just chill out ?

If Amazon explodes off the face of the planet, in 20 minutes you can fire up an node anywhere else! Whats the big deal?! Only problem is downtime.

This is very similar to the 51% attack by miners, and look at both Bitcoin and Litecoin, extremely centralised. Now THAT is a real issue, and even still a highly speculative hypothetical scenario.

I cant find it, but Evan did put out a calculation on the probability of overriding the MN network by controlling nodes, and its beyond ridiculous.

I absolutely agree the more decentralization the better... but for crying out loud, all you need to do is download the RC-QT, run "masternode list" and get every single MN IP out there, and go after them. And I'm sure Amazon has MUCH better protection platform than small time companies. Now, again, NOT promoting Amazon, I could say Digital Ocean but I'm far more worried about them because they are Microsoft, and I have a pet hate for Microsoft Shocked

Dont be overly paranoid without justification. We have much bigger issues to debate, like how can the community DO SOMETHING to get Darkcoin out there, instead of going bananas around a far-off scenario that for all intended purposes, may have already happened anyways.

Think about that for a minute.

toknormal

legendary

Activity: 3066

Merit: 1188

Quote from: thelonecrouton on August 03, 2014, 07:45:43 AM

Are you kidding? Endless Ether supply - you have to keep buying the stuff to keep your miracle Etherium app running on their platform

I know. I'm not quite savvy with the details of how the money supply works. All the same, I saw it as a cardinal technology ergo: mandatory to have a horse in that race. I like Vitalik - I think he's one of the most switched on people in crypto, albeit who probably has a few learning experiences to go through yet.

Also, Etherium has a "big corporate" air about - in relative terms at least - which doesn't go down too well in crypto circles.

The thing is, things are going to get VERY interesting once it launches. It's a generic approach and so should be able to form anything at the flick of a switch including "anon" coins.

On the other hand, traditional approaches like DRK and NXT have come quite a long way and are getting through their "right of passage" phases.

People need to have their antennae perked because if this thing works its impact may be felt across the whole crypto-economy.

We do not know how things are going to go.

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: coinzcoinzcoinz on August 03, 2014, 07:51:17 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: patrolman on August 03, 2014, 07:24:42 AM

Quote from: qwizzie on August 03, 2014, 04:08:26 AM

Quote from: Icebucket on August 02, 2014, 09:40:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why are people thinking that there is a cheaper alternative when the node pays for itself in a day or two or three, that leaves the rest of the month with pure profit.
I cant believe that people are that cheap.
This is a revolutionary thing we are all participating in.. really? And you want to save a few dollars.
Man ... :facepalm:

wow, just wow. So now we are getting facepalmed for watching the costs ? really ?
I definetely dont like the tone of yr reply. Anyone setting up MN's should act according their own priority's,
whether thats price, location or safety of service provided.

Maybe he didn't go about in the most diplomatic fashion but I think he is absolutely right.

Advising that everyone should set up MNs according to their own priorities is ok to a certain extent but it's not necessarily in the best interests of darkcoin for everyone to do that. Hypothetically, if a hosting provider offered 5 years of free unlimited hosting surely it would be in the best interests of most masternode holders to sign for a service which costs nothing. Would it be in the best interests of darkcoin for every maternode to be hosted with the same provider? Absolutely not.

A look at http://drk.poolhash.org/mnode.html shows that close to 44% of masternodes are hosted with Amazon. Sure they're in different locations but they still belong to the same entity. 20% belonging to Choopa (Vultr) is quite a lot too. Are Darkcoin's masternodes truly decentralised? Perhaps, but if everone signed up to a service just because it were free, the masternode network would be basically centralised, regardless of whether the nodes are hosted by the same entity in one country, or different countries. Because while network issues could be technical, there could also be legal or political issues.

I put it to you that not everyone is acting purely out of self interest when they select their masternode host. No doubt there are those who are struggling to pay the bills but I seriously doubt that is most people who own masternodes. Each one is currently valued at about $5 500.

The Masternode network should be more decentralised and that is the responsibilty of the Masternode owners.

Well said.

So if Amazon kills all masternodes, we still have >50% of masternodes running. That's more than 400 MN's as it stands today. What's the issue? I don't see it.

You don't see an issue with half the network being shut down with one phonecall from some US government shitheel? Roll Eyes

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: tungfa on August 03, 2014, 07:49:43 AM

Quote from: Phillis on August 03, 2014, 07:42:28 AM

the reasons why people should avoid US companies is due to the NSA revelations and to similar stories of lavabit. Basically, if you run something that the US government does not want, they will go after you, which in this case would be to go after masternodes.

Lets not forget this: http://lavabit.com/

US based sure, but internationally ?
No way,
what you think these agent are gonna come to Hong Kong, Japan, Iceland, China, Russia ,..... and shut everybody down ?
NO WAY !
the NSA can play in their backyard as much as they want
internationally nobody gives a flying fuxx ..... Grin

.....>>

Jesus Christ, take a look at US foreign policy for the last hundred years. They are not big believers in live and let live, and every country in the West bends over whenever the US says so.

Brits have been extradited to the US without ever having committed any crime in the UK, because the fucking MPAA buys the laws. You think whoever the spineless worm is that's in power in your country is going to stand up for your rights when Uncle Sam comes knocking? Open your eyes mate.

coinzcoinzcoinz

hero member

Activity: 530

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: patrolman on August 03, 2014, 07:24:42 AM

Quote from: qwizzie on August 03, 2014, 04:08:26 AM

Quote from: Icebucket on August 02, 2014, 09:40:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why are people thinking that there is a cheaper alternative when the node pays for itself in a day or two or three, that leaves the rest of the month with pure profit.
I cant believe that people are that cheap.
This is a revolutionary thing we are all participating in.. really? And you want to save a few dollars.
Man ... :facepalm:

wow, just wow. So now we are getting facepalmed for watching the costs ? really ?
I definetely dont like the tone of yr reply. Anyone setting up MN's should act according their own priority's,
whether thats price, location or safety of service provided.

Maybe he didn't go about in the most diplomatic fashion but I think he is absolutely right.

Advising that everyone should set up MNs according to their own priorities is ok to a certain extent but it's not necessarily in the best interests of darkcoin for everyone to do that. Hypothetically, if a hosting provider offered 5 years of free unlimited hosting surely it would be in the best interests of most masternode holders to sign for a service which costs nothing. Would it be in the best interests of darkcoin for every maternode to be hosted with the same provider? Absolutely not.

A look at http://drk.poolhash.org/mnode.html shows that close to 44% of masternodes are hosted with Amazon. Sure they're in different locations but they still belong to the same entity. 20% belonging to Choopa (Vultr) is quite a lot too. Are Darkcoin's masternodes truly decentralised? Perhaps, but if everone signed up to a service just because it were free, the masternode network would be basically centralised, regardless of whether the nodes are hosted by the same entity in one country, or different countries. Because while network issues could be technical, there could also be legal or political issues.

I put it to you that not everyone is acting purely out of self interest when they select their masternode host. No doubt there are those who are struggling to pay the bills but I seriously doubt that is most people who own masternodes. Each one is currently valued at about $5 500.

The Masternode network should be more decentralised and that is the responsibilty of the Masternode owners.

Well said.

So if Amazon kills all masternodes, we still have >50% of masternodes running. That's more than 400 MN's as it stands today. What's the issue? I don't see it.

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: Phillis on August 03, 2014, 07:42:28 AM

the reasons why people should avoid US companies is due to the NSA revelations and to similar stories of lavabit. Basically, if you run something that the US government does not want, they will go after you, which in this case would be to go after masternodes.

Lets not forget this: http://lavabit.com/

US based sure, but internationally ?
No way,
what you think these agent are gonna come to Hong Kong, Japan, Iceland, China, Russia ,..... and shut everybody down ?
NO WAY !
the NSA can play in their backyard as much as they want
internationally nobody gives a flying fuxx ..... Grin

.....>>

thelonecrouton

legendary

Activity: 966

Merit: 1000

Quote from: toknormal on August 03, 2014, 07:37:44 AM

Everybody got their Etherium ?

2 days to go.

DRK wil probably be traded on (or even migrated to) Etherium.

Are you kidding? Endless Ether supply - you have to keep buying the stuff to keep your miracle Etherium app running on their platform.

I can do everything Etherium does in fifteen different languages, for free.

Phillis

sr. member

Activity: 404

Merit: 500

the reasons why people should avoid US companies is due to the NSA revelations and to similar stories of lavabit. Basically, if you run something that the US government does not want, they will go after you, which in this case would be to go after masternodes.

Lets not forget this: http://lavabit.com/

tungfa

legendary

Activity: 1834

Merit: 1023

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: patrolman on August 03, 2014, 07:24:42 AM

Quote from: qwizzie on August 03, 2014, 04:08:26 AM

Quote from: Icebucket on August 02, 2014, 09:40:50 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why are people thinking that there is a cheaper alternative when the node pays for itself in a day or two or three, that leaves the rest of the month with pure profit.
I cant believe that people are that cheap.
This is a revolutionary thing we are all participating in.. really? And you want to save a few dollars.
Man ... :facepalm:

wow, just wow. So now we are getting facepalmed for watching the costs ? really ?
I definetely dont like the tone of yr reply. Anyone setting up MN's should act according their own priority's,
whether thats price, location or safety of service provided.

Maybe he didn't go about in the most diplomatic fashion but I think he is absolutely right.

Advising that everyone should set up MNs according to their own priorities is ok to a certain extent but it's not necessarily in the best interests of darkcoin for everyone to do that. Hypothetically, if a hosting provider offered 5 years of free unlimited hosting surely it would be in the best interests of most masternode holders to sign for a service which costs nothing. Would it be in the best interests of darkcoin for every maternode to be hosted with the same provider? Absolutely not.

A look at http://drk.poolhash.org/mnode.html shows that close to 44% of masternodes are hosted with Amazon. Sure they're in different locations but they still belong to the same entity. 20% belonging to Choopa (Vultr) is quite a lot too. Are Darkcoin's masternodes truly decentralised? Perhaps, but if everone signed up to a service just because it were free, the masternode network would be basically centralised, regardless of whether the nodes are hosted by the same entity in one country, or different countries. Because while network issues could be technical, there could also be legal or political issues.

I put it to you that not everyone is acting purely out of self interest when they select their masternode host. No doubt there are those who are struggling to pay the bills but I seriously doubt that is most people who own masternodes. Each one is currently valued at about $5 500.

The Masternode network should be more decentralised and that is the responsibilty of the Masternode owners.

Well said.

come on and relax
you really think amazon is gonna go through their whole world wide servers to 'hunt' down MN's !?!
You are watching too many movies !
No way !!
....>>

Topic: [ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency - page 4544. (Read 9723748 times)