Topic: [ANN][FAIR] FairCoin - for a fair economy, featuring proof-of-cooperation - page 114. (Read 376780 times)

The new generation of ethical online marketplaces is coming
http://www.shareable.net/blog/ethicalbay-the-coop-version-of-amazon-but-for-ethical-goods

We continue working on fairmarket and are going to collaborate with them promoting to accept faircoin
https://fair.coop/groups/fairmarket/forum/topic/sharing-knowledge-and-experience-from-similar-fair-markets/#post-4504

The value of this coin was zero without support from FairCoop Team. I Support the decision to recover the lost 4M coins..

After reading the statement of smartaction, I can say I support 100% the idea of getting back the lost coins.

Hello All

The release of the New Faircoin Wallet 1.5 with the new SHA-256 blockchain, is scheduled for thursday 26 february. The release procedure will be published very soon.

Anyway is important to take in account that, this new wallet will not be able for downloads until the 26 itself. Therefore you will need to be pending for 26 to finish the use of the current wallet, and begin the usage only of the new one.

keep pending of more updates! 

Uups, I had the link wrong. It's corrected now 

https://chain.fair-coin.org/download/faircoin-rpi-sha256-beta.tar.gz

I tried to download the BETA Raspberry Pi release, unfortunately it gave me a 404 Not Found on:
https://chain.fair-coin.org/download/faircoin-rpi-sha256-beta.tar.bz2

Why do you think it's too long? What would be better if it was 1 or 2 days? PeerCoin has 30 days...

Hello all,

I'm running the beta 1.5 also and the receivings are ok, the sending with or without 'Coin Control' also good, and also the minting seems to work ok...

The only mistery I found is that the address of a friend, which I used to send him betaFAIRs, now appears as one of MY addresses for recieving (¿?), instead of appearing in the address book with the label I've set...
This can be a bug, when saving the address in a sending operation?

Apart from this, the wallet is much faster!
thanks for improving the coin!

i am one of them

Tested all of this and works smoothly

1. Download block chain
2. Send coins standard way
3. Send coins with coin control
4. Receive coins
5. Staking
6. Using existing wallet.dat file with the new software (also useful for
point 5)

could you decrease the time until coins are mature for pos generation? the 21 days or what it is now is extremely long...

Hi, i´m running the beta wallet we only have 4 1.5 beta nodes at the moment, we need more people running beta nodes please

thank you all

You would not loose them, even if you just did nothing. But to keep things simple, leave your wallet open to let it mint or better move those coins to a new address in your wallet. But, you don't need to create a completely new wallet. Just use the one you have, create a new address and move your coins there.

regs
Thomas

How can I make sure to not lose my FairCoin's?

Do I have to mint or move the coins?

I have some from the early distribution and although I keept my Wallet up to date I never let it open long enough to mint.
Also I never moved them anywhere else because there was no need to. I am not into quick money.

I followed that coin from the beginning and I find that FairCoop project interesting.

Reading the latest post I have to say I saw that problem coming. Although I welcome that you choose that coin for your project because I have some for the projects perspective I couldn't really understand the motivation to take an already distributed coin instead creating a new one.

This 2 mil "dead" money as you see them are probabily hold to a big part from ppl like me. Some might have completly forgotten about their coin. They might come forward at a later time and create a "mess"

Thanks!

Only to make it clear, at most 4 M will be recovered, not the 6.5 M lost...

I think this change to sha is great and is also great to get rid of this 6 million missing coins.
To me Faircoin was just a pump and dump until you guys came up and give a real use for it.

And when a pump and dump happens the one who pump and dumps any coin gets to walk out with a big profit and also millions of coins.
So by changing to sha and taking back this 6 million coins will put Faircoins into 100 percent good hands.
Just my point of view.

The easier action to do, is mint or move this coins during the next week before the new wallet release. By this way, the change will be updated automatically
and we dont will need to do nothing more for him mantaining the ownership.   

what a long story!!!

i have a question.
one of my friend got faircoin from the free Distribution, and he never move it to another address or never use it,
i want to know that if he can get his coin back after this reborn or he just lost it?

Hi all.

After this some critizing i am going more in deep to share information and argument that is related with this redistribution decition.

Sorry but is a long reading, the big decitions needs big arguments!!

i have distributed your questions by some topics, therefore with this extended explanation i feel that all the big concerns have an answer in this document:


Democratic process question
First af all, this is not a suddently decition of the Faircoin dev team, but a very thought  and discussed decition of more than two months that was talked in person in the FairCoop Winter meeting,
(see: https://fair.coop/groups/faircoop-community/forum/topic/winter-summit-overview/ )
and has also been discused again, with a broad consensus, by the Faircoop ecosystem Council, which is curently the political risponsable to endorse this kind of decition.

In the discussion was proposed some more radical options, like recover regularly all the coins not minted or moved for a long term (aka, one year), but this kind of options was discarded.

The option approved seems to all the people with the whole picture of the FairCoop plans, and the past situations in faircoin, a prudent balance between the tradition of cryptocurrencies, and the culture of the groups and social movements that are being parte of the FairCoop process.

We value the descentralized and trustless decition process which Bitcoin ledger philosophy is based, and we see that in general this is also important by FairCoin, but Faircoop is trying to mix different philosophies  that never was together before, and to make it possible in an inclusive way we need to be flexible and innovative, this means consider all the key values like the descentralized ledger from bitcoin and equality from faircoop, but be able to make balanced decitions taking all in account.

Bitcoin vs Faircoin.  Pure descentralization vs political open participatory process.

Currency creation from Bitcoin and Faircoin was very different. To own Bitcoin ever had a cost, by mining, by working, or by buying BTC.  (well, not ever, because there are a lot of stole BTC...this is  problem to no forget...)

On the other hand in the first distribution of Faircoin, a small amount of people received a gift by free and without doing nothing special for it. This creates a relation between the old holders and new ones that is very different that how it works in BTC, and could make different the better choises to do..

A second point here, related to this, is that which in the Bitcoin model is called consensus, is not really a political consensus, but an imposition of the most powerful nodes though the less powerful. In the case of staking coins like Faircoin, this way would be an imposition of the bigger savers to the rest of the holders.

The FairCoop model, that we are developing for faircoin is based in human consensus.
And this is not based in holding coins, but in human political discussions, that are open to all the community, and have different tools to make possible a conclusion, like the lead of the Ecosystem council, the open discussion in the Fairnetwork, and direct voting systems.
Some documents about it:
https://fair.coop/decisions-process/
https://fair.coop/groups/faircoop-community/forum/topic/methodological-document-from-the-ecosystemic-council/

This model is not yet fully operative, we are conscient of it. We need more participation and some time to bring the process working.  Anyway the participation in the Fairnetwork is growing up already today... https://fair.coop/social-network/ and the things are advancing propertly.

Therefore this blockchain decision is not yet a model about how decitions will work in FairCoop/Faircoin, but a transition process, in this yet very early stage of the FairCoop developments.

And this is an special decition that does not create any precedent.  A decition that is needed to close a stage, and to continue with more force.




First History of faircoin and Mintpal episody

The story of Faircoin is very special and helps to understand why we are now doing this unique decition.  The launch of the wallet was very crapy and very strange things happened with the coin the firsts weeks. It was some kind of hack in the first exchange nxt-e, and after that a hard confrontation between the dev team and the exchange team; also two involunteer hardforks, and
The first developers leave the project around finally of April 2014.

After all of this, we got the take over of the coin in main and some month afters, related this with the project of FairCoop.

But we had the bad surpress, that after doing an important work recovering the coins from Mintpal – we was the first coin to get the coins back-  they send us only the 69% of the coins that they had in balances.

Remember:
The Mintpal Wallet contained:                      14946903.112935999408 FAIR
The balance of the account data counted:   21787698.41457512 FAIR
Faircoins withdrawed in mintpal v2:               -243666,36021 FAIR
Coins missing:                                               -6597129,30163912


And after many hours analizing the blockchain we dont know what happen but seems that there was some evident relation between this problems of the beginning of faircoin and the mintpal lost coins.

Otherwise, when we gave everyone the 100% of the coins, that was stored in Mintpal, all of you was happy with this action, but we already explained that this was possible because we was delaying the recovering of coins belonging to users from an investment funds that i (smartaction) manage.  And also other users that claimed their coins after the wallet was empty...

What seems a bit strange to me is at the same time be happy with that decitions and critize now at the moment that we need to complete this process and left it behind us. Without the determination that we are doing now, this past decition dont would not have been possible

Anyway, from the point of view of the Faircoin history, we can see this current decition, as the way to  breaking with the past,  in a mode that only can happen one time. A kind of reborn, after which, we will be full responible of our present and future.


The 2 M for developements. Why? 

The recovering of unused coins, will be at the most around 4M. Not 6.5M at was lost on mintpal, but not 2M at was pending to recover from there...
This amount comes from the criteria that we followed to identify the coins that has been unused.
There 4M are the coins that comes from the first distribution and has been unused neither minted from the first beginning. We can have the full confirmation that this coins hasnt had any cost and also the full confirmation that there was not any reciprocity to the faircoin community or security (aka, minting at leats one time is a kind of reciprocity) Anyway this is a very flexible criteria,
because as has been stated if some one shows ownership of this coins yet after the change of blockchain he will mantaint it ownership..
Therefore this 2M, are a maximum amount but is not garanteed. And the amount that finally keeps for this fund, will mean a change from abandoned coins to redistributed coins to some working in FairCoop/Faircoin developements, in a way that will be decided in an open participatory process.

Anyway, why to recover this unused coins?  As i explained before, the way how was firstly distributed the 50M faircoin is too much unfair, from the vision of lot of newcomers to the FairCoop process. There are a lot of people that is doing or will do, a lot of work for the Faircoop/Faircoin process and dont have yet any faircoin, or not will have if we dont create this fund.
This is meaning that we also are receiving some nagging from people involved in FairCoop that not understand why to pay for buying faircoin to people that received it for free, and has did nothing to create value.

As we decided take over this coin, we dont can change the past, but now, taking profit that we are moving to a new blockchain, we have an unique opportunity, to balance some justice for the people involved in the current and future developements.

Therefore, as a FairCoop ecosystem council and Faircoin developement team, we are trying to manage the equilibrium between everyone different perspectives, and we have seen this decition of recovering unused coins, one time, as the fairer way to create this balance

So, from the global perspective of all the process, i would like to ask to everyone here, to be comprensive with this one time special decition that we are taking which will be in benefit of the involvement and confidence of everyone related Faircoop and Faircoin





As a summary which funds will remain after the  new blockchain is working?

Because some comments are managing unaccurate info, i will like to summarize again the funds in hands of FairCoop,

10.3 MILIONS CURRENTLY

FOR LONG TERM, Most of this funds was presentedd with the FairCoop launch in september, and 300.000 has been added with minting and some donations coming from the coopfunding.net initiative.

This 10.3M are distributed like this:
Global south fund   5120946,839046
Commons fund   2571084,070319
Infraestrcuture fund   1584455,940681
pooled fund      1021176,85


A NEW FUND OF 2 MILIONS -AT MOST- FOR SHORT TERM DEVELOPMENTS

About this new fund the decition will be made openly by the Faircoop community, that can include everyone here because the participation is open. Already there are a thread open here to decide the most important priorities for bounties:  https://fair.coop/groups/faircoop-community/forum/topic/bounties-for-faircoop-developement/


What mean this for value . This is like creating money for nothing?

Is a very simplistic approachment to believe that to put in circulation 4M of coins (that was already in the supply anyway!), therefore less than the 8% of coins  is bad for the faircoin value.  Every distribution of coins will have a relation with the perception of value depending of what is created in exchange of this distribution.
In the concrete situation, of the 2 Milion for faircoin developements is a case clear precisely that distribution is going to create better perception of value and not the opposite. For example if 100000 coins are distributed in exchange of a new payment processor for online marketplaces, this will mean an important step in the faircoin usefulness that will atract more and more products and services, more an more people involved, etc.. with  value very bigger than 0,2% of the growth of distribution that it means.

I have a big expertise in economics and i perceive a lot of misunderstanding in the cryptocurrency world, related how creation of real value and money creation needs to be related. If you want to learn more about it i suggest some readings like: 

http://fundersandfounders.com/the-history-of-creating-value/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_credit

So,  bad inflation comes when money is created without wealth creation; and not ever that money is created is bad...
For example, if we distribute money in exchange of service/projects creation, specially if is innovative and worthy for the faircoin ecosystem, the creation ups the value, not the opposite!



Technical developements

Tom, has already just explained what will mean this new blockchain for faircoin usefullnes.
Our blockchain will be 40 times faster!!!   
But not only this... If we has been silent last months related new technical developements, is because this are being developed for Sha256, therefore after the new blockchain, we will have accesible finally this improvements. This will include the pending android wallet, and more other surprises...

I feel, that this is what mainly matters really of this announcement.... Faircoin will became, finally,  a currency well prepared for the real world use!!!

In fact at the technical level this is not a hard fork, but a reborn with a new blockchain, a new database system. A new blockchain which is compatible with your wallet.dat thanks to the very hard work from our core developer, Tom.

Conclusion

The decition of taking profit of this pending blockchain change, to recover the unused coins of the initial distribution is a very thought one. I invite everyone to take in consideration all explained here and trust this key and unique decition for the better of Faircoin.


Well, this is all for today... thanks for being reading until here :-)

Hi there,

Well, there's not much need to ask for an option about this optimization that increases performance significantly and make further development much easier.

But to clarify: What does it mean at all:
It means that the next release will still be POW/POS with all the same parameters. And it is still only grøstl minalble! No change there. It's only about the internal storage algorithm. Scrypt was never meant to be a fast hash algorithm for block hash storage on disk. We are going to use a reasonable hash algorithm that fits the purpose! I'm also thinking about even using SHA-3 (Keccak) which is the successor of the SHA-2 family.

It's important for the future of FairCoin that it really works on mobile devices, which is not the case at the moment. To give you a feeling about how poor scrypt performes for block hash storage: if you start the wallet on a RaspberryPI it'll take about 20 min. only to start up, ok. On the same device, same block chain but with only block hashes calculated with SHA256, it take about 30 seconds... any questions?

To close, thanks to all the people that commented about the proposed recovery procedure. We will take all your opinions into account and put it into the big picture we have: Fair.Coop (the earth cooperative for a fair economy). We are not going to nuzzle yet an other useless altcoin for speculators, we are trying hard to form a monetary base system that fits the Fair.Coop needs.

regs
Thomas

I have no problem on this as long as the system is still an hybrid pos-pow.