1.nearly all of these guys talking about the problem of DPOS and group have never been a delegate and will never be a deletgate ..you guys never know what is the biggest problem to be a delegate. and you have no idea about what is the real problem before Elite comes out.
so let me tell you something you never know.
you are a developer, you want to be a delegate...so...what can you do to be a delegate? you have to be show up in lisk.chat everyday ...and call for votes....and the most important things is ..you would never get enough vote weight unless you swap votes with the others....so..you have to swap votes every day and keep your position save.....and we know that you have a full time job and you need to pay some time of swaping votes...and pay some time for developing project for Lisk.....so....you know what is the problem? it's wasting time to swap votes but you have to ...because you will drop out of 101 if you dont do that....you cant expect these "community voters" to support you...it's far from enough...just because most of the community voters are too lazy to vote for delegate.and most of them just want to make profit from polo.
and most of these community voters never know that there have over 30 ARK foundation team member was forging on Lisk main...the ark foundation member use the ico wallet of ARK to vote for themself with 4.7M lisk....they forging on Lisk and dump Lisk to make profit..and feed ark project..that is the main reason why the price of Lisk drop to 7700 sat two month ago....these sucker just suck the blood from Lisk investor to feed their project....does anyone know these story???
what is the forging stuation now? Elite beated ARK ,and kicked most of Ark foundation member out of 101 now...and Elite member start to vote for these delegate who have real project and do contribution to Lisk network and bring them back into 101...and push these delegate who do nothing to Lisk and just forging and dumping...
Elite is a Centralized group. that is right...but Decentralization is not the only way to run Lisk ecosystem. why cant we have a Centralized organization On the basis of Decentralize network....
2.increase the number of delegate is just the most Stupid way to fix "these delegate problem", and i dont see any problem for now...and what i can see is some guys who never know about how to be delegate and what real DPOS is, and just keep talking about they found a "problem" on DPOS...i dont think these "smart guys" are smarter then the creater of DPOS.
Topic: [ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers - page 300. (Read 3074131 times)
April 26, 2017, 07:15:25 AM
April 26, 2017, 07:07:15 AM
LSK deposit at PoloniEx is broken, again...
April 26, 2017, 07:06:02 AM
Would you complain to the bitcoin miners for not doing anything for bitcoin development?
The miners throw more and more money on the hardware to increase their hash-rate, for getting more dividends.
For me delegates in LISK are similar to the miners in BTC.
The problem here is everyone is expecting the delegates to do awesome work or give a good share of their forged LISK back to the community.
Just like the BTC space, the progress doesn't have to come from the delegates, its the community which drives the progress.
If you believe in LISK, you buy, you hold and you promote, eventually the value and awareness of LISK will increase and you make good returns.
For delegates, with DPOS architecture, its inevitable that groups will be formed and if you are willing to throw lots of money at it, buy loads of LISK and join them.
Unfortunately this is the harsh reality and I don't see any solution to this delegate problem.
BTC mining is totally different system so it's not comparable. Earning 3000 EUR per months for having 10$ VPS installed to forge Lisk is a madness.
DPOS is cool because you can actually make delegates work for the LISK and this is what my proposal is all about. And yes there is a solution, I wrote it in the post you quoted and I think it would solve the problem.
I hope Max and Isabelle see it and take it as a suggestion to solve current problem that we have and make delegates efficient.
So you discounted the money spent for buying LISK to get you in a forging position? Its not freely distributed, right?
People who believed in LISK invested in it and you could have done the same too -- in fact its still doable.
I dont think we will ever reach a consensus in our discussion as the topic is very sensitive to many here.
I am really looking forward to hear the proposition which brings value to all.
April 26, 2017, 06:58:24 AM
Would you complain to the bitcoin miners for not doing anything for bitcoin development?
The miners throw more and more money on the hardware to increase their hash-rate, for getting more dividends.
For me delegates in LISK are similar to the miners in BTC.
The problem here is everyone is expecting the delegates to do awesome work or give a good share of their forged LISK back to the community.
Just like the BTC space, the progress doesn't have to come from the delegates, its the community which drives the progress.
If you believe in LISK, you buy, you hold and you promote, eventually the value and awareness of LISK will increase and you make good returns.
For delegates, with DPOS architecture, its inevitable that groups will be formed and if you are willing to throw lots of money at it, buy loads of LISK and join them.
Unfortunately this is the harsh reality and I don't see any solution to this delegate problem.
BTC mining is totally different system so it's not comparable. Earning 3000 EUR per months for having 10$ VPS installed to forge Lisk is a madness.
DPOS is cool because you can actually make delegates work for the LISK and this is what my proposal is all about. And yes there is a solution, I wrote it in the post you quoted and I think it would solve the problem.
I hope Max and Isabelle see it and take it as a suggestion to solve current problem that we have and make delegates efficient.
April 26, 2017, 06:54:40 AM
I think DPOS is a great system, we just need to find a way to get rid of mafia teams like Team elite who give only a little piece of stake back to the community. The thing is they give something back and people will rather get few coins from them than vote for someone with cool project which takes time to deliver and it might never deliver at all.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
Would you complain to the bitcoin miners for not doing anything for bitcoin development?
The miners throw more and more money on the hardware to increase their hash-rate, for getting more dividends.
For me delegates in LISK are similar to the miners in BTC.
The problem here is everyone is expecting the delegates to do awesome work or give a good share of their forged LISK back to the community.
Just like the BTC space, the progress doesn't have to come from the delegates, its the community which drives the progress.
If you believe in LISK, you buy, you hold and you promote, eventually the value and awareness of LISK will increase and you make good returns.
For delegates, with DPOS architecture, its inevitable that groups will be formed and if you are willing to throw lots of money at it, buy loads of LISK and join them.
Unfortunately this is the harsh reality and I don't see any solution to this delegate problem.
It's very difficult to compare Lisk Delegates (DPOS) to that of BTC mining (POW). While I can understand the analogy, choosing a Delegates is a democratically process and thus they are heavily involved within the community. A delegate position comes with far more responsibility than many people believe. DPOS and POW are nothing alike, and they should not be compared; there's way too much social behavior involved within DPOS that does not matter for POW.
April 26, 2017, 06:27:20 AM
Lisk is still the largest community in the altcoin land...
Can you prove this? More than ETH or Litecoin?
April 26, 2017, 05:58:49 AM
I think DPOS is a great system, we just need to find a way to get rid of mafia teams like Team elite who give only a little piece of stake back to the community. The thing is they give something back and people will rather get few coins from them than vote for someone with cool project which takes time to deliver and it might never deliver at all.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
Would you complain to the bitcoin miners for not doing anything for bitcoin development?
The miners throw more and more money on the hardware to increase their hash-rate, for getting more dividends.
For me delegates in LISK are similar to the miners in BTC.
The problem here is everyone is expecting the delegates to do awesome work or give a good share of their forged LISK back to the community.
Just like the BTC space, the progress doesn't have to come from the delegates, its the community which drives the progress.
If you believe in LISK, you buy, you hold and you promote, eventually the value and awareness of LISK will increase and you make good returns.
For delegates, with DPOS architecture, its inevitable that groups will be formed and if you are willing to throw lots of money at it, buy loads of LISK and join them.
Unfortunately this is the harsh reality and I don't see any solution to this delegate problem.
April 26, 2017, 05:18:43 AM
I think DPOS is a great system, we just need to find a way to get rid of mafia teams like Team elite who give only a little piece of stake back to the community. The thing is they give something back and people will rather get few coins from them than vote for someone with cool project which takes time to deliver and it might never deliver at all.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
So for the beginning I hope we can replace Team Elite with POOLS which will give us a much better return than Team Elite which promises nothing really. You can get into 101 though Team Elite just because you have a lot of coins and only thing you "owe" to the community is that little percentage that all team elite members need to give to the pool.
So Team Elite members don't really have the motivation to build something more for the Lisk with those funds because they are easily keeping their delegate spots just by being in the mafia network who back each other with a lot of votes. So currently Team Elite is only an inflation for the Lisk project with few individuals that actually use Lisk for something else except building a fortune on it. This is our current problem that needs to be solved.
SOLUTION
All other delegates should offer more percentage than Team Elite back to the voters and cool projects but they should do it systematically like Team Elite so that the voters are sure to get their Lisk without any mambo jumbo, and to get this I propose that Lisk team builds a delegate dashboard with timeframes, numbers and projects proposals.
With the dashboard a delegate would setup the % of shares that he is returning to the voters and the timeframe in which percentage will be LOCKED. Payouts to the voters would be automatic. Also it would be easy and transparent to see project proposals and updates and history. This way we would be able to keep track of everything easily rather then using a forum which is a mess when it comes to tracking.
With this system you can easily knock out someone from voting if you see he's not doing what he initially proposed and took money for.
April 26, 2017, 05:17:32 AM
This:
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
everyone can install on his ubuntu machine a lisk node copying and pasting on terminal this line:
cd ~ && rm -rf installLisk*; wget https://downloads.lisk.io/lisk/main/installLisk.sh && bash installLisk.sh install -r main
then press enter
confirm with enter all questions, and with "y" the question about ntp
then wait a bit for chain to download and sync, and open the browser http://localhost:8000
so doing you have your own node
lisk is automatically started at boot
When a new version is released, you can update with:
cd ~ && rm -rf installLisk*; wget https://downloads.lisk.io/lisk/main/installLisk.sh && bash installLisk.sh upgrade -r main
anyway when new lisk 1.0.0 will be released the web gui will be eliminated, so at that point everyone could use lisk nano
April 26, 2017, 05:07:55 AM
An update about our "LIG LOGO" contest: "LIGs Need a Logo! Win 1000 LSK!"
https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1469&p=10968#p10968
https://forum.lisk.io/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1469&p=10968#p10968
April 26, 2017, 04:54:46 AM
This:
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
It will eliminate with Lisk nano 1.0.0 . With new nano, you can create second passphrase, can register delegate, can vote more easily.
Follow development :https://github.com/LiskHQ/lisk-nano/projects/4
April 26, 2017, 04:50:53 AM
Lisk is still the largest community in the altcoin land, it is very reliable, the team is delivering thing regardless of difficult issues. Buy more.
April 26, 2017, 04:29:37 AM
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.
Actually many have seen it as a problem, and I guess you know it.
In the long run DPoS is terrible idea that is leading to corruption and centralization.
If we make the network more decentralized, increasing the number of delegates 3 times this will be normal solution. I do not mean exactly three times, it may be different number.
Surely it will increase, but not now. If you check delegate monitor, there are still not enough 201 delegate to increase currently.
April 26, 2017, 04:23:37 AM
This:
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
Unusable official website as it is constantly under DDOS attack.The website is the face of your coin to the open world and I would like to see proper measures put in place to mitigate these type of attacks and enhance user experience.
I see this as a huge problem because it gives the whole project a bad rep because any new people usually go to the official website first and start the Lisk journey with a bad experience.
April 26, 2017, 04:16:00 AM
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.
Actually many have seen it as a problem, and I guess you know it.
In the long run DPoS is terrible idea that is leading to corruption and centralization.
If we make the network more decentralized, increasing the number of delegates 3 times this will be normal solution. I do not mean exactly three times, it may be different number.
April 26, 2017, 04:15:39 AM
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.
Actually many have seen it as a problem, and I guess you know it.
In the long run DPoS is terrible idea that is leading to corruption and centralization.
A fundamental thing like this should have changed way earlier, I feel.
April 26, 2017, 04:10:25 AM
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.
Actually many have seen it as a problem, and I guess you know it.
In the long run DPoS is terrible idea that is leading to corruption and centralization.
April 26, 2017, 04:04:39 AM
Lisk price is looking very healthy today, Its always good to see Lisk being bullish - keep up the great work - its finally starting to pay dividends.
April 26, 2017, 04:02:28 AM
Congratulations community - with your votes Elite took the Lisk network. Now >50 Elite is in top, so for Lisk future are responisble so greats delegates as: kc, goodtimes, eely_delving, kaystar, threelittlepig, menfei or catstar. I've never seen proposals from this delegates, they never appereard on this forum or lisk.chat. They did NOTHING for Lisk besides invest and join Elite As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide
Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version
There are different kinds of members in the Elite group (from my short stay there)- some are programmers, some are proficient in marketing, some have other skills and some others like me are just there for investment. As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version
I have spent a lot of money on LISK and I have to look after my investment growing. If you are willing to gamble with your future savings, please do and come join Elite.Or should we say the delegate position is only for people with programming skills?
As an investor in LISK ecosystem, I have already gambled a lot of money in buying LISK and the only type of proposal you would see from me is donating to LISK promotional funds, use my voting weight for delegates I see are worth etc. I don't have any other skills and am not planning to create a proposal page full of promises. Elite is still a young group and we are actively discussing how to promote LISK, from our group.
Why is there so much discussion on DPOS now, as new members have joined the top 101 spot?
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.
To me the natural reaction is "We are out, now lets fight to change DPOS so that we can get back in"
April 26, 2017, 03:38:29 AM
Congratulations community - with your votes Elite took the Lisk network. Now >50 Elite is in top, so for Lisk future are responisble so greats delegates as: kc, goodtimes, eely_delving, kaystar, threelittlepig, menfei or catstar. I've never seen proposals from this delegates, they never appereard on this forum or lisk.chat. They did NOTHING for Lisk besides invest and join Elite As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide
Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version
As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version
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