[ANN][LSK] Lisk | Blockchain Application Platform for JavaScript Developers - page 301.

tomkat

hero member

Activity: 1022

Merit: 507

Quote from: bluedude on April 26, 2017, 04:02:28 AM

Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.

Actually many have seen it as a problem, and I guess you know it.
In the long run DPoS is terrible idea that is leading to corruption and centralization.

starmman

legendary

Activity: 1484

Merit: 1029

Lisk price is looking very healthy today, Its always good to see Lisk being bullish - keep up the great work - its finally starting to pay dividends.

bluedude

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

y²=x3+ax+b, a=0,b=7

Quote from: ClaudioC on April 26, 2017, 03:38:29 AM

Congratulations community - with your votes Elite took the Lisk network. Now >50 Elite is in top, so for Lisk future are responisble so greats delegates as: kc, goodtimes, eely_delving, kaystar, threelittlepig, menfei or catstar. I've never seen proposals from this delegates, they never appereard on this forum or lisk.chat. They did NOTHING for Lisk besides invest and join Elite

As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide

Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version

There are different kinds of members in the Elite group (from my short stay there)- some are programmers, some are proficient in marketing, some have other skills and some others like me are just there for investment.
I have spent a lot of money on LISK and I have to look after my investment growing. If you are willing to gamble with your future savings, please do and come join Elite.Or should we say the delegate position is only for people with programming skills?

As an investor in LISK ecosystem, I have already gambled a lot of money in buying LISK and the only type of proposal you would see from me is donating to LISK promotional funds, use my voting weight for delegates I see are worth etc. I don't have any other skills and am not planning to create a proposal page full of promises. Elite is still a young group and we are actively discussing how to promote LISK, from our group.

Why is there so much discussion on DPOS now, as new members have joined the top 101 spot?
Its funny that nobody has seen this as a big problem for the last year, when most of the complaining are safely forging in the top 101.

To me the natural reaction is "We are out, now lets fight to change DPOS so that we can get back in" Wink

ClaudioC

newbie

Activity: 4

Merit: 0

Congratulations community - with your votes Elite took the Lisk network. Now >50 Elite is in top, so for Lisk future are responisble so greats delegates as: kc, goodtimes, eely_delving, kaystar, threelittlepig, menfei or catstar. I've never seen proposals from this delegates, they never appereard on this forum or lisk.chat. They did NOTHING for Lisk besides invest and join Elite

As I writed here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18237516 in Elite are a lot a double delegates, I've seen this again on last network problem. DPoS isn't perfect but you decide

Anyway I belive in Lisk success, wait for 1.0.0 version

iimpact

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Quote from: megashira1 on April 26, 2017, 01:14:11 AM

Recommendation for those who have LISK on exchanges:

If you are not actively trading with your LISK make sure to keep your coins safe by withdrawing to a wallet where you hold your private keys!

Keep your coins and investment as a whole safe. Exchanges are prone to being hacked and the more LISK we leave with exchanges the more hazardous an outcome if these coins were to be stolen.

Such an incident would be devastating for the long term success of the LISK project.

Second that, I hold all my Lisk on wallet.

Great rise for the Lisk today, great volume, hope it continues until it reaches ETH price Cheesy

Reavon

sr. member

Activity: 374

Merit: 250

Quote from: prix on April 25, 2017, 11:24:33 PM

Quote from: Reavon on April 25, 2017, 08:59:19 AM

1. a ranking in finding a block the higher you are to the 1st rank add very much to centralization because the top 50 could than maybe easyly 51% attack
the rest.
2. the client is optimized to 101 nodes , increasing the amount of nodes would require rebalancing the code processing and much more under the hood it simply is not PoW work which can scale naturely with more nodes. Its is a very different approach with is strenghts and weaknesses.

Can you speak in detail with code examples? Why do you think it's easy to attack? For now it is only your words. Without proofs.
For example in NXT you can attack only with (I don't remember for sure) if you have more 90% of NXT supply.
And if you attack you kill NXT and you amount. You loose money. It does not make any sense and it is very expensive.
If top 50 can "easy" attack when they have more chances to block generataion, then we can wait for the attack from 50 with the current system.
I do not think that LISK is so vulnerable.
What is "rebalancing the code processing"?
Why NXT or Waves (it's not POW too) can scale, but Lisk not? Are you think the LISK scalability is bad?
If the LISK gets spread, then it can not be scaled to 1001 delegates? Is that what you're trying to say?

In your defense of the current system, you expose Lisk to the weak.

Sorry you missed the point , i wasnt saying Lisk is scaling bad nor was i saying that the current lisk Dpos were vulnerable. I pointed out the problematics with the thoughts of a user who offered ideas to improve lisk and why the current Lisk implementation is better than what he was proposing.

dumple

member

Activity: 170

Merit: 10

Anyone else having Poloniex deposit issues again?

megashira1

legendary

Activity: 1146

Merit: 1000

Recommendation for those who have LISK on exchanges:

If you are not actively trading with your LISK make sure to keep your coins safe by withdrawing to a wallet where you hold your private keys!

Keep your coins and investment as a whole safe. Exchanges are prone to being hacked and the more LISK we leave with exchanges the more hazardous an outcome if these coins were to be stolen.

Such an incident would be devastating for the long term success of the LISK project.

corsaro

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Reavon on April 25, 2017, 08:59:19 AM

Quote from: corsaro on April 25, 2017, 06:37:13 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:21:09 AM

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 06:17:33 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

Yeah well, currently it's like this. Once SDK is done we will start voting for some real projects, I would say time is needed for evolution.

Right now I'm running a Waves Node, you can just run it as long as you hold over 10k of Waves.
No voting involved.
If you don't want to run a node, you can lease your Waves to a node and still receive fees and "miner reward tokens".

Lisk is not doing much for Lisk holders.
Just by holding Waves, I got several free tokens that can be traded for real money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both Lisk and Waves, but this is where Lisk really screwed up.
The Waves team understands how to please their investors.

But still, I think Lisk will be great in Q4 2017.

yes there is some discussion on github about improving lisk dpos:
https://github.com/LiskHQ/lisk/issues/353

I proposed my idea
It could be great to see more comments there from this community.

Nice attempt but here is what i think could become problematic with your idea.

1. a ranking in finding a block the higher you are to the 1st rank add very much to centralization because the top 50 could than maybe easyly 51% attack the rest. There is a reason we have 101 delegates who more or less mine the same amount of block so there is alway a consensus, because in contrast of PoW Dpos has not much incentive for the nodes other than satisfy their voters.

2. the client is optimized to 101 nodes , increasing the amount of nodes would require rebalancing the code processing and much more under the hood it simply is not PoW work which can scale naturely with more nodes. Its is a very different approach with is strenghts and weaknesses.

I believe we will see lisk creating a very nice groundwork for developers to create a new internet of Apps on lisk and later on maybe in 3-4 we will see a major core tech upgrade that will revolutionize they way Bapps work in a similar manner dash and monero did for anon tx.

I made a similar proposal on ARK, so to involve more delegates in forging rather then 51, and core dev fix told that a similar algo can be done
https://github.com/ArkEcosystem/AIPs/issues/3

In the LISK case, at each forging round, a list of 101 delegates has to be selected, but it can be taken even from the first 202 delegates for example..
The most important is to have a predictable algo so that all nodes have the same 101 list for every round

prix

hero member

Activity: 750

Merit: 511

Quote from: Reavon on April 25, 2017, 08:59:19 AM

1. a ranking in finding a block the higher you are to the 1st rank add very much to centralization because the top 50 could than maybe easyly 51% attack
the rest.
2. the client is optimized to 101 nodes , increasing the amount of nodes would require rebalancing the code processing and much more under the hood it simply is not PoW work which can scale naturely with more nodes. Its is a very different approach with is strenghts and weaknesses.

Can you speak in detail with code examples? Why do you think it's easy to attack? For now it is only your words. Without proofs.
For example in NXT you can attack only with (I don't remember for sure) if you have more 90% of NXT supply.
And if you attack you kill NXT and you amount. You loose money. It does not make any sense and it is very expensive.
If top 50 can "easy" attack when they have more chances to block generataion, then we can wait for the attack from 50 with the current system.
I do not think that LISK is so vulnerable.
What is "rebalancing the code processing"?
Why NXT or Waves (it's not POW too) can scale, but Lisk not? Are you think the LISK scalability is bad?
If the LISK gets spread, then it can not be scaled to 1001 delegates? Is that what you're trying to say?

In your defense of the current system, you expose Lisk to the weak.

Reavon

sr. member

Activity: 374

Merit: 250

Quote from: corsaro on April 25, 2017, 06:37:13 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:21:09 AM

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 06:17:33 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

Yeah well, currently it's like this. Once SDK is done we will start voting for some real projects, I would say time is needed for evolution.

Right now I'm running a Waves Node, you can just run it as long as you hold over 10k of Waves.
No voting involved.
If you don't want to run a node, you can lease your Waves to a node and still receive fees and "miner reward tokens".

Lisk is not doing much for Lisk holders.
Just by holding Waves, I got several free tokens that can be traded for real money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both Lisk and Waves, but this is where Lisk really screwed up.
The Waves team understands how to please their investors.

But still, I think Lisk will be great in Q4 2017.

yes there is some discussion on github about improving lisk dpos:
https://github.com/LiskHQ/lisk/issues/353

I proposed my idea
It could be great to see more comments there from this community.

Nice attempt but here is what i think could become problematic with your idea.

1. a ranking in finding a block the higher you are to the 1st rank add very much to centralization because the top 50 could than maybe easyly 51% attack the rest. There is a reason we have 101 delegates who more or less mine the same amount of block so there is alway a consensus, because in contrast of PoW Dpos has not much incentive for the nodes other than satisfy their voters.

2. the client is optimized to 101 nodes , increasing the amount of nodes would require rebalancing the code processing and much more under the hood it simply is not PoW work which can scale naturely with more nodes. Its is a very different approach with is strenghts and weaknesses.

I believe we will see lisk creating a very nice groundwork for developers to create a new internet of Apps on lisk and later on maybe in 3-4 we will see a major core tech upgrade that will revolutionize they way Bapps work in a similar manner dash and monero did for anon tx.

corsaro

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:21:09 AM

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 06:17:33 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

Yeah well, currently it's like this. Once SDK is done we will start voting for some real projects, I would say time is needed for evolution.

Right now I'm running a Waves Node, you can just run it as long as you hold over 10k of Waves.
No voting involved.
If you don't want to run a node, you can lease your Waves to a node and still receive fees and "miner reward tokens".

Lisk is not doing much for Lisk holders.
Just by holding Waves, I got several free tokens that can be traded for real money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both Lisk and Waves, but this is where Lisk really screwed up.
The Waves team understands how to please their investors.

But still, I think Lisk will be great in Q4 2017.

yes there is some discussion on github about improving lisk dpos:
https://github.com/LiskHQ/lisk/issues/353

I proposed my idea
It could be great to see more comments there from this community.

Turing

sr. member

Activity: 994

Merit: 277

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 06:17:33 AM

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

Yeah well, currently it's like this. Once SDK is done we will start voting for some real projects, I would say time is needed for evolution.

Right now I'm running a Waves Node, you can just run it as long as you hold over 10k of Waves.
No voting involved.
If you don't want to run a node, you can lease your Waves to a node and still receive fees and "miner reward tokens".

Lisk is not doing much for Lisk holders.
Just by holding Waves, I got several free tokens that can be traded for real money.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of both Lisk and Waves, but this is where Lisk really screwed up.
The Waves team understands how to please their investors.

But still, I think Lisk will be great in Q4 2017.

iimpact

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Quote from: Turing on April 25, 2017, 06:16:28 AM

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

Yeah well, currently it's like this. Once SDK is done we will start voting for some real projects, I would say time is needed for evolution.

Turing

sr. member

Activity: 994

Merit: 277

I really like the Lisk project but this "101 nodes forging" system has become one big corrupt fuck-up.

I will never vote again, ever.

corsaro

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 05:58:18 AM

Quote from: Starfleet.Intelligence on April 25, 2017, 05:51:13 AM

You can vote for LiskElite (www.liskelite.com) and you will be rewarded for your vote which will be about 150 LSK weekly.

Thanks, I voted for them as well even so their rewards are really low, would love to see more pools pushing them out of 101 list.

just vote for standby pools.. helping them to enter 101

iimpact

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Quote from: Starfleet.Intelligence on April 25, 2017, 05:51:13 AM

You can vote for LiskElite (www.liskelite.com) and you will be rewarded for your vote which will be about 150 LSK weekly.

Thanks, I voted for them as well even so their rewards are really low, would love to see more pools pushing them out of 101 list.

Starfleet.Intelligence

full member

Activity: 237

Merit: 100

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 04:31:26 AM

Is it in common that people sell votes for delegates?
I have little bit over 50k votes and I'm willing to sell my votes for 100 LSK monthly (per delegate)

You can vote for LiskElite (www.liskelite.com) and you will be rewarded for your vote which will be about 150 LSK weekly.

iimpact

member

Activity: 86

Merit: 10

Quote from: corsaro on April 25, 2017, 04:42:29 AM

no need to sell anything.. just vote these standard pools as per bioly profit calculator http://tools.mylisk.com/calculator.php

<<... Account with 50000 LSK, which vote all delegates above, after 1 month will gain 249.588696 LSK>>

I already voted for that list, but since we can have 100 votes I can sell the rest if somebody wants. Donno mabye 100 Lisk per vote is too much, 50 should do.

corsaro

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1000

Quote from: iimpact on April 25, 2017, 04:31:26 AM

Is it in common that people sell votes for delegates?
I have little bit over 50k votes and I'm willing to sell my votes for 100 LSK monthly (per delegate)

no need to sell anything.. just vote these standard pools as per bioly profit calculator http://tools.mylisk.com/calculator.php

<<... Account with 50000 LSK, which vote all delegates above, after 1 month will gain 249.588696 LSK>>

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