Topic: [ANN][MOTO] Motocoin - page 73. (Read 178259 times)

It should be noted that it was a knee-jerk reactionary decision of a human which tanked the price.  The human was behaving rationally, based on the (bad/incorrect) information that he had at the moment.  Any good trading bot wouldn't have acted until it could confirm what it was seeing as "real" and then would've systematically sold quietly and subtly so as not to affect market sensitivities.  Instead this human freaked out and dumped a load of coins, and then the trading bots did their (now entirely rational) thing and dumped their coins, and then a bunch of other humans freaked out and dumped their coins, and now we have 0.000004BTC/MOTO....

The rest of us botters were happily trading our coins without tanking the market... don't blame a whole group of people for one person's (entirely understandable) honest mistake.


WHOA NOW, our seigniorage is not infinite or we'd all have become world leaders today with our infy moto-monies.  This simply isn't how things work.  We *do* have costs... the energy costs (dollar for dollar) might be drastically lower than, for example, mining BTC, but I am still burning some (slowly increasing, heh) electricity... I still have to maintain computers, pay for internet, keep them housed somewhere, etc.  Not to mention my own direct opportunity costs (I certainly could've made more money by spending the time I used to code my bots on coding for my clients) and indirect opportunity costs (by using these CPUs to mine moto I can't use them as servers for hosting, for example) and so on and so on.  Let's not be disillusioned, we are not making "loads of free money" here.  (BTW from what I can tell I am actually making far less than the other botters because I throttle my blocks, and they don't seem to be doing so.)  We cannot scale indefinitely for free.  In fact, with each block that passes our expectation diminishes - which is entirely how a cryptocoin is "supposed to work" so this is actually good news!  


Funny, it seems to me like (despite the (hopefully temporary) price setback) this coin is more alive than ever.  For days I watched it go unnoticed and unmentioned everywhere... but today people sure are talking about it!

Hi not too sure but some kind of randomised captcha within the program might not be as easily botted like html stuff

To be quite frank, I could trivially 51% attack the network right now.  Heck, I could probably 99% attack it if I wanted to.  I'm sure the other bot operators are in similar position.  Like I said, I currently intend to be benevolent.  (I'm afraid that I can't speak for the others, but if it appears that attacks are imminent/occurring I will certainly scale up to try to help stop them!)

The point of the mining pool would actually be just the opposite, to prevent *incidental* damage to the network security, as we saw happening yesterday.  Because of the combination of aggressively ramped-up bots, a low fullnode count, and what was either some DDoS activity or just some misbehaving nodes, we saw some massive soft-forks yesterday.  Two of these forks each wiped over an hours worth of forked blocks out of existence.  That sort of thing will lead to exchanges de-listing the coin in a heartbeat, and *that* would destroy the coin's value.  I want to set up a botters' mining pool to *avoid* problems on the network, not to create them.  (Ideally we would have multiple pools, but I suspect that there will not be enough people to really distribute the hashing strength well.)


I'm pretty sure it says in the whitepaper that a goal was to make it so that even if bots are competitive, humans could still play/compete.  Perhaps this should be made the primary goal ASAP!

It might take some incredible measures, it might even take some new science, but I think it is (or will be) possible to structure the coin such that bots and humans can compete on a nearly level playing field.

Bots can solve captchas also
Also , how do you plan on doing the check?

It was a project about a coin that required captchas to solve blocks but .. people realized it was such a pain that it got abandoned.

Genius! xD

At least the botter will have to deal with captchas to make money lol

add some sort of simple captcha when ya hit play maybe? *shrugs*

Botting has/will ruined/ruin this coin completely.  Now that the value has dropped so much the incentive for humans to "mine" has dropped greatly leaving a majority of botters.  Since botters are essentially getting it for free they can cash out and be in profit at anytime.  I'm sure they'll race to do so, to "secure profits".

I regret spending any time on this coin altogether now- really a bummer to see it going into death throws so early.

And there goes all the fun about the coin.
But really , everything that a human can do , a bot can do better and faster so there will be never a bot free coin .

If it's human mineable, then it'll be bot mineable...that's what logic would make me think at least.
Interesting concept, a few orders of magnitude above my league heh, will watch from the sides.

They were never worth anything more than the belief of people who think the concept is worth something.

Relaunch makes sense only if the measures taken against bots can be assured to work long term. The measures proposed so far most definitely cannot.

Would relaunch mean all motos that are mined till now become worthless?

 Yeah. The only way this coin can become popular is human-minable feature so the fight agaist all the bots must be the main aim for now on. The market is ruined and I think that we should think about complete relaunch (or another hard fork on block 8000). Yes, I'm saying that keeping in mind that yesterday I had 3+ BTC worth of Motocoin...

Interesting, I've been following your posts...great work man, mad props :p

I find this coin really cool as well, might get big some day, it definitely is a breath of fresh air.

What do you know, maybe C-CEX becomes the next great big thing, when it comes to alt exchange sites as a side effect too xD

We need on open source bot, so everyone could mine it as bitcoin or over coins)

Wouldn't a mining pool for botters destroy the little value Motocoin still has? You could succeed almost every 51% attack, if you wanted to.

If Motocoin is no longer human minable, which was its main selling point - what does it still have left?

I've been speaking with one of the other botters now, we randomly bumped into each other on c-cex chat...

It seems he likely triggered the big sell-off last night.  It looked to him like the network was having problem, and at the same time the buy side of the book was thinning, so he did the perfectly rational thing and sold the lot.  Woops, the network *wasn't* having any problems, and the buy side showed resiliency and refilled the books quickly (despite leaving an epic spread over an order of magnitude large) albeit at a large discount bid.

The index error seems to be a side-effect of some weird blocks, and is annoying but benign.  The fork rate of the network today is actually *much* lower than yesterday so far, probably because all 3-4 of us botters seem to have backed off slightly since being "discovered" and coming to the realization that we could quickly compete ourselves out of a market to sell to.....

(I'd like to set up something like a mining pool for the botters so that we can compete without risking such extreme chain forks.  Yesterday's huge forks were painful for everyone.)

I think that since there wasn't actually some fundamental trigger for the selloff that bidding competition should cause the price to gradually recover.  I would take the fact that the sell side is not racing to the bottom as a very good sign.  In other words, I personally think this might be a rare, great buying opportunity!  (In fact, I have now bought back over half as many coins as I've sold over the past days, heh.) Also, I would expect that if/when this coin launches on a second exchange the price would rebound almost instantly.

Yeah, from coin for human to coin for 2-3 botowners in 2 weaks 

I think the most efficient antibot action would be increasing physics ticks per second to some immense number (like 1000000)

I won't say more about this for now, I already gave too much hints with my last post.  Now I guess it is just wait and "we will see?"


The heuristics would be more or less the same, the bot does not consider the whole map during traversal phase.


Sure, but mostly I am interested in seeing both sides of the respective challenges succeed at their tasks!  The more that is done to deter the bots the smarter our bots will have to get, and humanity benefits both from a more secure coin, and better machine learning.

P.S.
I'd be interested in hearing the other bot operators' perspectives on all of this.  Surely I can't be the only one willing to come forward and chime in on the discussion?  Cmon guys, I know you're out there!

What makes you think it is more difficult for a bot to decide where to go than for a human? That's pretty naive.