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Topic: [ANN][MRO] Monero - an anonymous coin based on CryptoNote technology - page 10. (Read 23555 times)

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin. How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems.

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

This coin wasn't working as advertised. It was supposed to be mined slowly like BTC but under the current emission schedule, 39% would be mined by the first year and 86% by the fourth year. Those targets have been moved out by a factor of 2, i.e. 86% mined by year 8, which is more like BTC's 75% by year 8. So the cap has been moved out much further into the future, constraining present and near-term supply, which is what determines the price.

Why not a reduction in block reward of slightly more than half to bring it into line with the proposed graph?

That would avoid all sorts of perceptual problems, would not upset present coin holders and be barely noticeable to future miners since less than one percent of coins have been mined so far, the alteration would be very small?

Because that still turns into a pre-mine or instamine where a few people got twice as many coins as everyone else in the first week.

This was always a bug, and should be treated as such.

I hardly think that significantly less than 1% over the course of a week or so constitutes an instamine.

The crypto world is pretty brutal, bitcointalk even more so - I'll watch with interest and shut up in the meantime.....  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
So long as the process is fair and transparent it makes no difference what the number is... n or n/2 is the same relative value so long as the /2 is applied to everyone. Correcting this now will avoid people accusing the coin of a favourable premine for people who mined in the first week.

No, not true. Your share of the 18,000,000 coins is being halved - rightly or wrongly.

Also, a favourable premine for early adopters is far from uncommon - I'm not saying it's right or wrong, there are arguments for each.

Right, and no one involved with this coin wanted or wants a favorable premine. Well, maybe other than you, that is.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
So long as the process is fair and transparent it makes no difference what the number is... n or n/2 is the same relative value so long as the /2 is applied to everyone. Correcting this now will avoid people accusing the coin of a favourable premine for people who mined in the first week.

No, not true. Your share of the 18,000,000 coins is being halved - rightly or wrongly.

Also, a favourable premine for early adopters is far from uncommon - I'm not saying it's right or wrong, there are arguments for each.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin. How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems.

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

This coin wasn't working as advertised. It was supposed to be mined slowly like BTC but under the current emission schedule, 39% would be mined by the first year and 86% by the fourth year. Those targets have been moved out by a factor of 2, i.e. 86% mined by year 8, which is more like BTC's 75% by year 8. So the cap has been moved out much further into the future, constraining present and near-term supply, which is what determines the price.

Why not a reduction in block reward of slightly more than half to bring it into line with the proposed graph?

That would avoid all sorts of perceptual problems, would not upset present coin holders and be barely noticeable to future miners since less than one percent of coins have been mined so far, the alteration would be very small?

Because that still turns into a pre-mine or instamine where a few people got twice as many coins as everyone else in the first week.

This was always a bug, and should be treated as such.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin. How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems.

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

This coin wasn't working as advertised. It was supposed to be mined slowly like BTC but under the current emission schedule, 39% would be mined by the first year and 86% by the fourth year. Those targets have been moved out by a factor of 2, i.e. 86% mined by year 8, which is more like BTC's 75% by year 8. So the cap has been moved out much further into the future, constraining present and near-term supply, which is what determines the price.

Why not a reduction in block reward of slightly more than half to bring it into line with the proposed graph?

That would avoid all sorts of perceptual problems, would not upset present coin holders and be barely noticeable to future miners since less than one percent of coins have been mined so far, the alteration would be very small?
member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10
So long as the process is fair and transparent it makes no difference what the number is... n or n/2 is the same relative value so long as the /2 is applied to everyone. Correcting this now will avoid people accusing the coin of a favourable premine for people who mined in the first week.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
how many coins are out already? how do i tell i synched in?

There are approximately 150k coins. There will likely be a "reverse stock split" turning these into 75k "new" coins at some point, because the mining reward is currently twice what is intended.

Syncing the daemon is currently pretty fast as there isn't much of a block chain. Type refresh in the wallet to sync it.

sr. member
Activity: 910
Merit: 250
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
I think correct the coin now while early.  Not many blocks mined so if fixed now future of coin is strong.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Ask me about Karmacoin
how many coins are out already? how do i tell i synched in?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin. How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems.

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

This coin wasn't working as advertised. It was supposed to be mined slowly like BTC but under the current emission schedule, 39% would be mined by the first year and 86% by the fourth year. Those targets have been moved out by a factor of 2, i.e. 86% mined by year 8, which is more like BTC's 75% by year 8. So the cap has been moved out much further into the future, constraining present and near-term supply, which is what determines the price.
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin. How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems.

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

You make good points but unfortunately conflicting statements were made and it isn't possible to stick to them all. It was said that this coin had a mining reward schedule similar to bitcoin. In fact it is twice as fast as intended, even even a bit more than twice as fast as bitcoin.

If you acquired your coins on the basis of the advertised reward schedule, you would be disappointed, and rightfully so, as more coins come to into existence more quickly than you were led to believe.

To simply ignore that aspect of the bug is highly problematic. Every solution may be highly problematic, but the one being proposed was agreed as being the least bad by most of the major stakeholders. Maybe it will still not work, this coin will collapse, and there will need to be a relaunch, in which case all your coins will likely be worthless. I hope that doesn't happen.

hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 500
Moving discussion to more relevant thread, previous found here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6364026


I have to say that I am surprised that such an idea is even being countenanced - there are several obvious arguments against it.

Perception - what kind of uproar would happen if this was tried on a more established coin? How can users be expected to trust a coin where it is perceived that the devs are able and willing to "dip" into people's wallets to solve problems?

Technically - people are trying to suggest that this will make no difference since it applies to reward and supply, which *might* be fair enough if the cap was halved also, but it isn't. People's holdings in the coin are being halved, however it is dressed up.

Market price - How can introducing uncertainty in the contents of people's wallets possibly help market price?

I may well be making a fool of myself here, but I have never heard of such a fix before, unless you had savings in a Cypriot bank - has this ever been done for another coin?

legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
so i create a wallet via password


if i create a new wallet. if i set the same password. would this still be the same wallet generated?


No the password is just for keeping the wallet safe. You can even use no password (not recommended).

Each generated wallet is different. You can copy the wallet files if you want the same wallet somewhere else.

full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Ask me about Karmacoin
so i create a wallet via password


if i create a new wallet. if i set the same password. would this still be the same wallet generated?
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
I want to buy 1000 moneo, PM me the BTC price. Thank

Trading thread is over here. It says Bitmonero BMR but that's the same thing (former name). Will be fixed there soon.
full member
Activity: 140
Merit: 100
I want to buy 1000 moneo, PM me the BTC price. Thank
legendary
Activity: 2968
Merit: 1198
One can never be absolutely certain sure there won't be a clever shortcut found but it seems plausible this may remain a CPU coin for a very long time.

An ASIC built especially to speed up random access to memory has a better chance to work here than current GPUs. GPUs may get bigger caches over time, but then you can't be sure that CPUs won't also speed up access to their L3 cache, get more cores, and start to look more like GPUs anyway (and GPUs are being built into CPUs).

It is possible this may stay mineable by regular common computers (whatever those are) indefinitely.





member
Activity: 79
Merit: 10
is there a hidden gpu miner?

I doubt it, network is equivalent to about 400 good CPUs right now.  Making the hashing algorithm implemented on a GPU is non-trivial.

Reminds me of Litecoin back in late 2012. Smiley


To expand on this, if you read the Cryptonote whitepaper (see https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf) you'll see that the PoW, even if implemented on a GPU, would be unlikely to give a significant advantage, as it is limited by memory random access speed rather than bandwidth (the traditional strength of GPUs for hashing).
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1005
is there a hidden gpu miner?

I doubt it, network is equivalent to about 400 good CPUs right now.  Making the hashing algorithm implemented on a GPU is non-trivial.

Reminds me of Litecoin back in late 2012. Smiley
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Ask me about Karmacoin
is there a hidden gpu miner?
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