A few things I could like about PoS. The premine wallet/wallets could set up a level of security if always running. It would also generate coins I hope would be used at least 90% for giveaways. I would like legit promises they would be doing so, though.
It would also stop more Nyan from being produced faster than there are buyers. Counter to this, a fiat/Nyan exchange might help PoW accomplish nearly the same goal with a halving before the launch of the exchange. Though that exchange could equally help PoS.
So with PoS, what interest rates are we talking? Over how long? If I remove or add coins from my PoS wallet, will it stop earning coins for a while? I heard some coins require holding wallets. How many coins would it generate versus what is generated curently?
Topic: [ANN][NYAN] NyanCoin - ★★★V1.2 Released! Now Listed on Cryptsy! ★★★ - page 12. (Read 80997 times)
March 31, 2014, 01:18:56 PM
March 31, 2014, 01:11:41 PM
You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
Yes, that is what I meant. It spares insta-dumping.
6 would probably be best, too, I agree. Too much more might build up Nyncoin in pools too much for safety.On hashrate. Nyancoin is low now, and some big steps could easily get that hashrate back to at least triple what it is with relative ease.
I do not wish for a halving with X11 instantly, but some time well before block 337k.
On PoW/PoS, I was pretty certain from peercoin having both prevent one from being attacked without the other also being required to be attacked.
One of the things that I have noticed my time with NYAN (which is the entire life of NYAN) is that we relied on the nyancat community to bring a huge boost which never came.
It never came because the nyancat community doesn't know anything about crypto and they don't really care about it much. We kept promoting to them, but they basically didn't come to the coin at all. This is the reason that we lost so much of our value in this time.
The reason why I promote a change in supply and change to POS is because we can shift our attention away from the nyancat followers and try to court crypto investors instead. If we change the specs of the coin to be deflationary by nature and to encourage acquisition by purchase, we increase incentive to buy and speculate in the coin.
I don't think as it currently is, there are many big moves left we can make to increase adoption of the coin. We no longer have the volume for marketplaces to take us as a coin and even though we are high on the votes list, even Cryptsy is ignoring us because of lack of volume. I want to change to POS to encourage buyers, which encourages volume. Only then can we get other places to take up the coin.
March 31, 2014, 01:04:31 PM
I assumed the 337 to 33.7 reward
Quote from: Atheistftwins
That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?[/qoute]
That was just a random example I was using to prove a point. We don't have to drop it to that extent. I agree that a merged POW/POS model will defend against the possibility of attack.
My question is: is it worth it? If we drop the supply AND share blocks between the POW and POS systems, then there will only be a few megahashes worth of miners. It's a lot of work to implement such a system and do we really want to spend that much work just so a few miners can still mine?
March 31, 2014, 12:59:40 PM
I
I'm not sure who would consider 90% block reward reduction.
I assumed the 337 to 33.7 reward
I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).
I'm not sure who would consider 90% block reward reduction.
Quote from: Atheistftwins
That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?[/qoute]
March 31, 2014, 12:57:53 PM
I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).
I'm not sure who would consider 90% block reward reduction.
March 31, 2014, 12:56:13 PM
Miscommunication, sorry.
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
glad you 2 got that figured out...
I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).
March 31, 2014, 12:52:36 PM
You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
Yes, that is what I meant. It spares insta-dumping.
6 would probably be best, too, I agree. Too much more might build up Nyncoin in pools too much for safety.On hashrate. Nyancoin is low now, and some big steps could easily get that hashrate back to at least triple what it is with relative ease.
I do not wish for a halving with X11 instantly, but some time well before block 337k.
On PoW/PoS, I was pretty certain from peercoin having both prevent one from being attacked without the other also being required to be attacked.
March 31, 2014, 12:32:48 PM
What you said is straight up false. DOGE has 4 hour difficulty retarget time. It's block confirmation time is 60 seconds. Difficulty retarget time doesn't do much for us since we have KGW. I don't know what you are talking about, but it certainly is not fact.
Much accusation. You are going off old information, again.
http://blog.dogecoin.com/post/79433719646/mandatory-update-dogecoin-1-6
Blocks retarget actively, at any time. Confirmations are 4 hours.
You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.
What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?
March 31, 2014, 12:27:47 PM
What you said is straight up false. DOGE has 4 hour difficulty retarget time. It's block confirmation time is 60 seconds. Difficulty retarget time doesn't do much for us since we have KGW. I don't know what you are talking about, but it certainly is not fact.
Much accusation. You are going off old information, again.
http://blog.dogecoin.com/post/79433719646/mandatory-update-dogecoin-1-6
Blocks retarget actively, at any time. Confirmations are 4 hours.
March 31, 2014, 12:04:02 PM
The whole idea of a coin is as a currency...did you forget? Changing block confirmations to 6-12 hours makes it impossible to use NYAN to buy anything...What if you wanted to buy a coffee but it took 6 hours just to confirm your credit card? That long of a block time defeats the whole point of crypto.
That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?
POS will not suffer this problem since anybody can just open up their wallet and leave it open. Therefore, many more people will be able to hold NYAN and protect the network. It also costs very little from an electricity point of view to do so. Miners have obligations to meet, they won't stick around in our network providing hashes to protect us just for fun.
Even with the 120 minute confirms, my nyancoin are sent from wallet to wallet and usable within 3-10 minutes. New block confirmation time does not have a significant effect on the usability of the coins. This is a long held misconception. Doge is at 4 hours right now.
How does lowering reward magically lower hashrate? What lowers hashrate is less miners.
So I need to open my wallet and leave it running to collect coins with PoS? Talk about ass pain favoring bagholders, with possibly corruption by said people when most dont want to leave a wallet with a few thousnd nyan open on a pc 24/7 only to make nearly jack shit returns.
What you said is straight up false. DOGE has 4 hour difficulty retarget time. Its block confirmation time is 60 seconds. Difficulty retarget time doesn't do much for us since we have KGW. I don't know what you are talking about, but it certainly is not fact.
Miners leave when the profit is less. There's nothing magical about it. Give less rewards and that many less miners will stick around. If we drop supply by half, then to keep the same number of miners, the price will have to double. The real question you should ask is, what will magically cause the price to double?
As for obtaining NYAN, that's why we were suggesting a pool which buys NYAN with whatever coins are mined. In fact, you don't need a special pool for this...if you want NYAN, you can mine anything and then convert it to NYAN on the market whenever you like.
March 31, 2014, 11:58:10 AM
The whole idea of a coin is as a currency...did you forget? Changing block confirmations to 6-12 hours makes it impossible to use NYAN to buy anything...What if you wanted to buy a coffee but it took 6 hours just to confirm your credit card? That long of a block time defeats the whole point of crypto.
That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?
POS will not suffer this problem since anybody can just open up their wallet and leave it open. Therefore, many more people will be able to hold NYAN and protect the network. It also costs very little from an electricity point of view to do so. Miners have obligations to meet, they won't stick around in our network providing hashes to protect us just for fun.
Even with the 120 block maturity, my nyancoin are sent from wallet to wallet and usable within 3-10 minutes. New block maturity does not have a significant effect on the usability of the coins. This is a long held misconception. Doge is at 4 hours right now.
How does lowering reward magically lower hashrate? What lowers hashrate is less miners.
So I need to open my wallet and leave it running to collect coins with PoS? Talk about ass pain favoring bagholders, with possibly corruption by said people when most dont want to leave a wallet with a few thousnd nyan open on a pc 24/7 only to make nearly jack shit returns.
March 31, 2014, 11:42:55 AM
I don't want another Blackcoin clone...jesus, can't we be original?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
We don't have the hash to sustain block halving. If we decrease supply with POW, anybody who feels like it can come by and do a 51% attack on us at the current market cap.
If we were a bigger coin, sure I'd agree that we can change the supply and use X11. However, we don't have that luxury. If you want to change supply, we use POS. If not, then X11 is fine. Though, if we don't change supply, I see nothing that will really turn the current trend around...
Edit: Also, I'm all for original ideas. Do you have any?
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
Wait what? Care to elaborate on how this helps the coin?
Why can we not reduce block rewards with X11? Seriously? I don't get it in the slightest why we don't have "the luxury" to do so. What does hashrate even have to do with the reward? Nothing I'm pretty certain.
The only reason our hashrate sucks is because there is nothing to spend nyan on and the certain future, no promotional campaign, little dev activity, and no public knowledge the nyancat dev actually cares for the coin and wants it to succeed. It seemed like heels were being dragged until just now.
PoS suffers from timestamp exploits more-so than PoW as well. It would not be hard too corrupt.
Increasing block maturity to such levels effectively eliminates "profitability miners" from the picture. No miner who cares about nyan needs his coins sooner.
The whole idea of a coin is as a currency...did you forget? Changing block confirmations to 6-12 hours makes it impossible to use NYAN to buy anything...What if you wanted to buy a coffee but it took 6 hours just to confirm your credit card? That long of a block time defeats the whole point of crypto.
That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?
POS will not suffer this problem since anybody can just open up their wallet and leave it open. Therefore, many more people will be able to hold NYAN and protect the network. It also costs very little from an electricity point of view to do so. Miners have obligations to meet, they won't stick around in our network providing hashes to protect us just for fun.
March 31, 2014, 11:37:07 AM
I don't want another Blackcoin clone...jesus, can't we be original?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
We don't have the hash to sustain block halving. If we decrease supply with POW, anybody who feels like it can come by and do a 51% attack on us at the current market cap.
If we were a bigger coin, sure I'd agree that we can change the supply and use X11. However, we don't have that luxury. If you want to change supply, we use POS. If not, then X11 is fine. Though, if we don't change supply, I see nothing that will really turn the current trend around...
Edit: Also, I'm all for original ideas. Do you have any?
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
Wait what? Care to elaborate on how this helps the coin?
Why can we not reduce block rewards with X11? Seriously? I don't get it in the slightest why we don't have "the luxury" to do so. What does hashrate even have to do with the reward? Nothing I'm pretty certain.
The only reason our hashrate sucks is because there is nothing to spend nyan o, a lack of any certain future, no promotional campaign, little dev activity, and no public knowledge the nyancat dev actually cares for the coin and wants it to succeed. It seemed like heels were being dragged until just now.
PoS suffers from timestamp exploits more-so than PoW as well. It would not be hard too corrupt.
Increasing block maturity to such levels effectively eliminates "profitability miners" from the picture. No miner who cares about nyan needs his coins sooner.
March 31, 2014, 11:36:24 AM
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
Wait what? Care to elaborate on how this helps the coin?
March 31, 2014, 11:18:43 AM
I don't want another Blackcoin clone...jesus, can't we be original?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
We don't have the hash to sustain block halving. If we decrease supply with POW, anybody who feels like it can come by and do a 51% attack on us at the current market cap.
If we were a bigger coin, sure I'd agree that we can change the supply and use X11. However, we don't have that luxury. If you want to change supply, we use POS. If not, then X11 is fine. Though, if we don't change supply, I see nothing that will really turn the current trend around...
Edit: Also, I'm all for original ideas. Do you have any?
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
Wait what? Care to elaborate on how this helps the coin?
March 31, 2014, 11:02:32 AM
pure POS with decreased supply 
March 31, 2014, 10:58:47 AM
I don't want another Blackcoin clone...jesus, can't we be original?
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
"If only we market like doge," "if only we PoS/multipool for nyan," "maybe we should have an alt to nyan exchange."
That said. x11 is best. With no mining comes no interest, especially if I have to hold huge amounts for long periods in an untouchable wallet (like some PoS) to make any more nyan.
Also, why x11 and even distribution? Can't we get a block halving much sooner? Say block 133700?
Also also, make block confirmation take 6-12 hours!
March 31, 2014, 10:35:58 AM
Now I agree with blackcoin model.
March 31, 2014, 09:50:23 AM
I agree with Atheist. If we were to cut it at block 133700 and make it pure POS after that. We could start a few pools which would mine other profitable coins and sell those coins for nyan.
That's a great idea, this way miners can still mine to get NYAN and at the same time, it would increase the value of the coin.
It is a similar model to that of blackcoin which mined everything inside the first few weeks. By having a "multipool" hash other profitable coins and take that btc to buy nyan it will both drive up the price of nyan as well as increase volume on exchanges.
March 31, 2014, 09:46:30 AM
I agree with Atheist. If we were to cut it at block 133700 and make it pure POS after that. We could start a few pools which would mine other profitable coins and sell those coins for nyan.
That's a great idea, this way miners can still mine to get NYAN and at the same time, it would increase the value of the coin.
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