[ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork - page 40.

gusti

legendary

Activity: 1099

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Quote from: ffuentes on August 10, 2011, 07:44:20 PM

New digital currencies spring up everywhere, I don't like that. Detracts bitcoins and is not a benefit for Internet and the people. Although, the creator's name is suspicious.

I think the opposite, this new competing currencies will only make bitcoin stronger

ffuentes

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Only a curious passer-by / FirstBits: 13zsc1

New digital currencies spring up everywhere, I don't like that. Detracts bitcoins and is not a benefit for Internet and the people. Although, the creator's name is suspicious.

aq

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Nick on August 10, 2011, 01:08:09 PM

Someone's desperately trying to become an early adopter here.
Lame.

+1

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: Shinobi on August 10, 2011, 07:33:22 PM

The lesson here is someone is that the time will come (and it is not a question of if) when we will see the release a clone of Bitcoin with a more attractive feature set (wallet encryption, user-friendly client and the like), and it *will* pose a threat to Bitcoin. And the exact same reasons - i.e. get-rich-quick, early adoption - underlying Bitcoin will be behind the new currency's adoption. It's easy to knock Ixcoin because there isn't much improvement to draw anyone to it. But what if something more polished came along? Would you ignore it, convinced of its failure, or would you begin to mine... just in case... it took off? This is the inflation that Bitcoin zealots don't want you to see - and why people are pissing so hard on Ixcoin in this thread. The threat of devaluation doesn't come from an unlimited coinage within Bitcoin, but rather the potential of clones alongside it.

You're conflating changes to the client software with changes to the protocol/blockchain. Any changes you want - "better" client, wallet encryption, more "polish", whatever you want, you can have it right now... all you need to do is code it.

Changes to the blockchain are changes to the "rules" of the system, which make ixcoin incompatible with bitcoin.

With the momentum behind bitcoin, any "competitor" would need to offer significantly more than just "polish" on the GUI to be a true competitor. Polish can be copied, it's the rules behind the system that make any particular instantiation unique and more/less desireable than any other.

gusti

legendary

Activity: 1099

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Shinobi on August 10, 2011, 07:33:22 PM

The lesson here is someone is that the time will come (and it is not a question of if) when we will see the release a clone of Bitcoin with a more attractive feature set (wallet encryption, user-friendly client and the like), and it *will* pose a threat to Bitcoin. And the exact same reasons - i.e. get-rich-quick, early adoption - underlying Bitcoin will be behind the new currency's adoption. It's easy to knock Ixcoin because there isn't much improvement to draw anyone to it. But what if something more polished came along? Would you ignore it, convinced of its failure, or would you begin to mine... just in case... it took off? This is the inflation that Bitcoin zealots don't want you to see - and why people are pissing so hard on Ixcoin in this thread. The threat of devaluation doesn't come from an unlimited coinage within Bitcoin, but rather the potential of clones alongside it.

what inflation ? if zimbabwe prints more money, that not inflates the swiss franc

RandyFolds

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Someone should just pay Vladamir for one day to overtake and split their chain. Their network's gotta be pretty paltry. I wonder what the cost would be.

Shinobi

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

The lesson here is someone is that the time will come (and it is not a question of if) when we will see the release a clone of Bitcoin with a more attractive feature set (wallet encryption, user-friendly client and the like), and it *will* pose a threat to Bitcoin. And the exact same reasons - i.e. get-rich-quick, early adoption - underlying Bitcoin will be behind the new currency's adoption. It's easy to knock Ixcoin because there isn't much improvement to draw anyone to it. But what if something more polished came along? Would you ignore it, convinced of its failure, or would you begin to mine... just in case... it took off? This is the inflation that Bitcoin zealots don't want you to see - and why people are pissing so hard on Ixcoin in this thread. The threat of devaluation doesn't come from an unlimited coinage within Bitcoin, but rather the potential of clones alongside it.

server

legendary

Activity: 892

Merit: 1002

1 BTC =1 BTC

I think it's nice that "normal" people with simple computers can generate some digital coins and get used to the idea of a digital currency.

Unfortunately this is not possible anymore with bitcoins because you need a dozen expensive gpu's to get 1 coin a day orso.

Why not value Bitcoin as gold and Itchycoin uuh sorry Grin

Ixcoin as silver/bronze/iron..

There will be other digital currencies in the future and this one is based on the same technique's as Bitcoin but will, as I understand it, "accelerate" faster and is a bit less secure and therefor cheaper.

Maybe accidents with this coin can prevent accidents with Bitcoin. Who knows ?

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

Insecure much?

I guess we shouldn't let kids play with monopoly money either in the current economic climate, the real fiat has enough problems without some people wasting time trading monopoly money and monopoly houses and monopoly land instead of getting out in the real world trying to prop up the value of real fiat, real houses and real land...

-MarkM-

todu

newbie

Activity: 32

Merit: 0

hashcoin

full member

Activity: 372

Merit: 114

Quote from: ctoon6 on August 10, 2011, 06:29:05 PM

i dont fully understand how some text in the genesis block proves a date. but i do see your point.

The point is that genesis block could not have been created before that date (unless Satoshi could predict a Times headline to the date and letter).

Just to be clear, if I had to guess, I think this error is due to stupidity, not malice (based on his posts in this thread and the total lack of adding anything original, it strikes me as more likely that he simply did not understand the purpose of the genesis timestamp than he deliberately arranged things this way to double spend later).

Anyway, the point is this shows the person who made this chain is EITHER a complete moron OR malicious. Why continue a chain started by such a person?

Also this was the first thing that came to mind he might have done wrong that I checked. There may be some other places he introduced bugs...

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: shotgun on August 10, 2011, 06:37:03 PM

this whole thing is like one big WASTE OF TIME.

agreed

Quote from: shotgun on August 10, 2011, 06:37:03 PM

Go mine BTC or NMC.

Agreed

Quote from: shotgun on August 10, 2011, 06:37:03 PM

WE DON'T NEED MORE CHAINS.

Not sure. I can imagine other rulesets that could prove interesting. However I agree that it seems a waste of time to create a bitcoin clone when bitcoin's future isn't assured - especially since the reason for the lack of certainty regarding bitcoin's future is NOT the particular ruleset in place. Let's get bitcoin stable, secure, and out of the bleeding edge and into merely the cutting edge. Then we can start looking at how things could be done differently, better, in terms of the blockchain rules.

Code:

Nasakioto

full member

Activity: 172

Merit: 283

Thomas Nasakioto

Quote from: hashcoin on August 10, 2011, 06:13:10 PM

DO NOT USE THIS
There is a more serious issue than that he already mined some blocks. There is no way of knowing he hasn't mined EVEN MORE and is holding them to himself.

The genesis block is NOT properly timestamped. The bitcoin genesis block contains the following quote:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

The reason for this is so you can be sure Satoshi hadn't been mining a chain for the past 10 years. That quote PROVES that noone started mining before Jan 03 2009.

In IXcoin the genesis block has the quote:
"To see the farm is to leave it"
https://github.com/ixcoin/ixcoin/blob/Branch_v0.3.24/src/main.cpp

That is totally meaningless and proves nothing.

Either the dude who made this didn't understand the reason for timestamping the genesis block, or deliberately left it out. Either way, there is no way you can know that he or someone else hasn't been mining an alternate chain for the past 2 years being kept hidden and that will be released eventually later..

There are blockchain checkpoints within the code which prevent this from happening.

N12

donator

Activity: 1610

Merit: 1010

Quote from: shotgun on August 10, 2011, 06:37:03 PM

this whole thing is like one big WASTE OF TIME. Go mine BTC or NMC. WE DON'T NEED MORE CHAINS.

Why leave it at two? Either one or infinite chains.

Also, why all the hostility? It’s Free Market!

shotgun

member

Activity: 98

Merit: 11

this whole thing is like one big WASTE OF TIME. Go mine BTC or NMC. WE DON'T NEED MORE CHAINS.

Littleshop

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Rodyland on August 10, 2011, 06:08:42 PM

If he'd made some attempt at creating a novel fork of bitcoin I'd have a different opinion. If he'd not mined over 500k coins himself before going public I'd have a different opinion.

I agree. The only change he/they made was to make it EASIER to mine coins so they could get more in the beginning. A better change would have been to make the mining reward smaller but then it would have taken twice as long to mine the same amount of coins they kept for themselves.

Rodyland

hero member

Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: smoothie on August 10, 2011, 06:29:21 PM

What would that accomplish if no one uses ixcoin because of such an act? He would be destroying his own network he created.

If his purpose was to piss people off, cause chaos and mayhem, and generally distract people from bitcoin, then that would work nicely. There seem to be no shortage of people that are bitcoin perma-bears, and it's not that much of a stretch for someone to go from "I think bitcoin will fail" to "I hope bitcoin fails" to "I will help bitcoin fail"....

markm

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1090

The Bitcoin code seems to ignore the timestamp of the genesis block anyway.

You can create a genesis block, leave it lying around un-mined a few days or weeks, maybe even years or decades, and when you do finally fire up the code and start mining you don't get a complaint that the genesis block is too old nor that the first block you create following the genesis block is too far into the future as compared to the date of the genesis block.

As soon as a new checkpoint comes out in a new version of the client, you will be able to see whether that checkpoint affirms the blocks mined since the publication of the current version or, if your held back chain theory is the case, instead is a checkpoint invalidating everything mined since publication and instead affirming some held back secret ten year old chain.(*)

-MarkM-

(*) Because he is actually Satoshi, and didn't even publish the whitepaper until long after starting that secret hidden held back chain...

EDIT: Actually, Satoshi's REAL held back chain PAID the newspaper to publish a specific future headline, they get a big chunk of the coins in the held back secret double-spend chain!

smoothie

legendary

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: Rodyland on August 10, 2011, 06:20:32 PM

Quote from: hashcoin on August 10, 2011, 06:13:10 PM

DO NOT USE THIS
There is a more serious issue than that he already mined some blocks. There is no way of knowing he hasn't mined EVEN MORE and is holding them to himself.

Woah, so there's your double spend.... You're saying this guy could have been mining for the last 6 months, be up to block 50000. Then he "releases" block 6000 (or whatever it was), and people start mining, trading etc. Then one day in the future he drops block 50000 into the wild and all of a sudden everyone's coins go to him.

Interesting idea. And while it may work, it would kill ixcoin dead. Nobody would ever use it again. So that eliminates the "get rich quick" aspect and turns it into a "sew mayhem and disaster" type scenario.

Agreed. What would that accomplish if no one uses ixcoin because of such an act? He would be destroying his own network he created.

ctoon6

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 251

i dont fully understand how some text in the genesis block proves a date. but i do see your point.

Topic: [ANNOUNCE] Ixcoin - a new Bitcoin fork - page 40. (Read 128443 times)