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Topic: [ANNOUNCE] SolidCoin - new and improved block chain. Secure from pools - page 24. (Read 85500 times)

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: FlipPro on August 29, 2011, 06:30:22 AM

Please explain why he's wrong coinhunter.

Sure, since the difficulty can only raise in three bands 2%, 6% and 10%, and decrease to whatever level is necessary (upto 4x) where is he getting this 20% figure from?

If we are at target hash rate it will maintain that level within 2%. The other thing to consider is the target hash rate is more like "the maximum" wanted, it's different to BTC where 10 minutes is "Desired". "3 minutes" isn't necessarily desired in SolidCoin, it's the maximum.

FlipPro

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1015

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 06:28:35 AM

Quote from: Zibbo on August 29, 2011, 04:26:26 AM

LOL, you better rerun your tests again. Could we please get a clue in here.

Please explain why he's wrong coinhunter.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: Zibbo on August 29, 2011, 04:26:26 AM

LOL, you better rerun your tests again. Could we please get a clue in here.

coblee

donator

Activity: 1654

Merit: 1350

Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.

Quote from: spruce on August 29, 2011, 05:02:32 AM

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 04:00:58 AM

Seriously though, back this claim up:

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

Your ~~victims~~ investors deserve to know how you came up with that "10000 solidcoin owners" number.

Couldn't one get some idea by counting the number of different accounts or IP addresses on the exchange? It wouldn't be exact but it would give a ballpark figure.

There's really know way to know. You can count the number of miners on all the pools or the number of accounts on the exchange. That will just give you an estimate. For example, I've mined solidcoins and sold all of them for bitcoins for a small profit. But I wouldn't call myself an owner of solidcoins since I don't own any anymore.

And I can't imagine how he can claim that he can count the number of miners of the first million bitcoins on a single hand.

spruce

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 04:00:58 AM

Seriously though, back this claim up:

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

Your ~~victims~~ investors deserve to know how you came up with that "10000 solidcoin owners" number.

Couldn't one get some idea by counting the number of different accounts or IP addresses on the exchange? It wouldn't be exact but it would give a ballpark figure.

Zibbo

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

Don't know if this issue has been already brought up, but as I understand it, there is a problem with SolidCoin retarget algorithm that will manifest itself when the difficulty reaches the hashrate. Since it considers only the last 240 blocks when retargeting (correct me if I'm wrong), there will be huge fluctuations in the difficulty level. I ran some quick simulations, and you can expect the difficulty level to regularly fluctuate between +-20% where it "should" be, and more than that in some rarer cases. So every once in a while, you'll have situations, where the "real" difficulty according to the "real" hashrate should be 10000, but SolidCoin target is actually 12000 and drops to 8000 with one retarget (33% drop), and all this while the hashrate is static.

It's certainly not a showstopper, but hardly what I would call optimal, and something to consider if you are planning on copying retargetting from SolidCoin for your own project.

If I were to design a retargetting algo, I would find the first block that has a timestamp a certain amount of time in the past (say 2 weeks), see how many blocks were generated in that time, and adjust accordingly and often. Not the other way around as it's done in all current chains.

Chris Acheson

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 251

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 03:39:31 AM

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 03:28:45 AM

And before long you'll have that nice fast network all to yourself.

Chris buddy, even though you seem to be a rather bitter and annoyed person, good luck with whatever you're doing. Just wanted to make sure I get this in quote for later in case you edit.

Here, I'll sign it for you:

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And before long you'll have that nice fast network all to yourself.
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Seriously though, back this claim up:

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

Your ~~victims~~ investors deserve to know how you came up with that "10000 solidcoin owners" number.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: sharky112065 on August 29, 2011, 03:47:07 AM

What would happen on Bitcoin if that happened? Say it dropped to a dollar tomorrow and stayed there for a month. How long would it take for transactions to go through then?

It would likely would take about 3-6 months to reset, and until then people would be jumping from BTC to SolidCoin or perhaps nothing at all (being disillusioned with the whole p2p currency thing).

Lorna Morgan

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

I like Bitcoin, Monero and BCash

Quote from: Syke on August 29, 2011, 03:27:40 AM

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

LOL, yeah except did you notice we can survive a drop in half of hashrate and the network is still 3 times faster than Bitcoins? What other chain can do that? None.

I'm not sure losing half the hashrate is something you should brag about.

I actually think that is something to brag about.

We all knew that the miners would move away, that was a given, but the fact that it's still going (unlike i0coin) is testament to the intelligent choices made in the design.

sharky112065

sr. member

Activity: 383

Merit: 250

Sounds like Chris Acheson has some money invested in Bitcoin. I personally do not care if Solidcoin replaces Bitcoin. I do like the fact that if the exchange rate drops way down and miners drop like flies because they cannot pay their electricity bills, that it resets the difficulty much quicker. What would happen on Bitcoin if that happened? Say it dropped to a dollar tomorrow and stayed there for a month. How long would it take for transactions to go through then?

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 03:28:45 AM

And before long you'll have that nice fast network all to yourself.

Chris buddy, even though you seem to be a rather bitter and annoyed person, good luck with whatever you're doing. Just wanted to make sure I get this in quote for later in case you edit.

Chris Acheson

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 251

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

...are all irrelevant to Bitcoin. Only the more frequent difficulty retargeting actually defends SolidCoin from anything, and it's an attack that Bitcoin isn't even vulnerable to. In order to get Bitcoin stuck in the same difficulty trap that Namecoin and Ixcoin are currently in, you'd have to destroy miners' faith in the future value of the currency in a very short amount of time. If you can pull that off, Bitcoin would be pretty much dead anyway, so whatever.

Just wow, if you read this back and don't understand the hilarity of what you're saying then .....

"Bitcoin isn't even vulnerable to that" - "But if you can pull that off it will die"

Haha. Wow.

It's glaringly obvious that you're running on pure rhetoric. You either aren't bothering to think through what I'm saying, or don't care. I know you're desperate to stop SolidCoin from sinking, but letting it show is a bad idea.

No matter how often you retarget difficulty, the magnitude of such an attack would kill any blockchain-based currency. Getting stuck with high difficulty and a low hashrate is an afterthought.

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

Bullshit. Bitcoin was publicly announced when the blockchain was started. It took two years to reach a price of $1. There was ample time to buy/mine plenty of bitcoins if you thought it was going to take off. Most people (myself included) didn't think it would and didn't bother. If SolidCoin were to ever take off, it'll be the same situation.

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

You're just making shit up now. Care to provide citations for those claims?

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

From the price and hashrate charts, it looks more like people are jumping overboard.

LOL, yeah except did you notice we can survive a drop in half of hashrate and the network is still 3 times faster than Bitcoins? What other chain can do that? None.

And before long you'll have that nice fast network all to yourself.

Syke

legendary

Activity: 3878

Merit: 1193

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

I like some of the changes in SC, but at least tell the truth. Lying just doesn't help the cause. You have no idea who owns the first million Bitcoins.

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 29, 2011, 01:32:16 AM

LOL, yeah except did you notice we can survive a drop in half of hashrate and the network is still 3 times faster than Bitcoins? What other chain can do that? None.

I'm not sure losing half the hashrate is something you should brag about.

CoinHunter

sr. member

Activity: 252

Merit: 251

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

Just wow, if you read this back and don't understand the hilarity of what you're saying then .....

"Bitcoin isn't even vulnerable to that" - "But if you can pull that off it will die"

Haha. Wow.

The scenario where SolidCoin price starts to rise and rise , encouraging more and more miners away from Bitcoin is a likely one, and it will destroy the Bitcoin network as it has no defense against such things. Unlike SolidCoin.

Bitcoin owners could wake up in 3 days and find that their confirmations are now taking 12 hours, nearly every site supporting them is taking 3 days to confirm any transfers they make. If you do not see how very vulnerable Bitcoin is then you are not worth continuing a debate with, as it is obvious to anyone with a passing understanding of the protocol.

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

It's bullshit is it? Considering we can number the guys who mined the first million Bitcoins on a single hand how is it bullshit when SolidCoin has over 10000 individual owners of coin already?

Just because Bitcoin was available publicly doesn't mean much at all, it takes time for a concept such as a "p2p currency" to become well known. I suspect SolidCoin wil also be deemed unfair to "X" once it has global acceptance, simply because we didn't get millions of people making that first coin. "They only got over 10000". So I can categorically say SolidCoin's existence is more fair than Bitcoins. Whether it's "fair" from the majority of the worlds viewpoint we will wait and see.

Quote from: Chris Acheson on August 29, 2011, 12:54:58 AM

From the price and hashrate charts, it looks more like people are jumping overboard.

LOL, yeah except did you notice we can survive a drop in half of hashrate and the network is still 3 times faster than Bitcoins? What other chain can do that? None.

Jimmy2011

hero member

Activity: 589

Merit: 500

Quote from: smoothie on August 29, 2011, 12:09:45 AM

If time it takes to mine 240 blocks exceeds 12 hours then the difficulty will drop.

Got it?

I think so, and the difficulty adjustment is just lag against the increase of miners. It took such a long time to balance the change of miner power in the present year 2011. So 2%, 6% and the limited 10% increase of difficulty has nothing, just a meaningless parameter arbitrarily chosen. CoinHunter, could you please explain why limited 10% is chosen? Is there any theory behind it?

Chris Acheson

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 251

Quote from: CoinHunter on August 28, 2011, 09:21:31 PM

You are wrong. The developers aren't going to change some core things in Bitcoin, I already discussed this with some of them prior to making SolidCoin. The consensus from them was it was never going to change, and there was no purpose to it.

Maybe you should have taken the peer review seriously.

Quote

You sound like them, are you one?

Nope.

Quote

What these "developers" don't understand however is that people that use Bitcoin, actually want fast confirmations. They want a fast network. This is why SolidCoin is successful, it's fast and always will be. My other protocol changes are intelligently designed to protect SolidCoin from a variety of attacks that Bitcoin cannot. This isn't subjective, it's something that Bitcoin doesn't do that SC does. Your argument that "it's easy to make those changes" is irrelevant because no one before me made those changes and Bitcoin is still vulnerable to them regardless of your banter.

3 minute blocks are the only thing that SolidCoin has going for it. Your other protocol changes:

Difficulty retargets more often
Difficulty increases limited to +10% per retarget
Block reward changed from 50 to 32
(Again, anything else? Seriously, if I missing anything, I'd like to hear specifics from you, instead of hand-waving)

Quote

If Bitcoin was to adopt them it's going to be a major PITA getting people to accept it.

And it would be a major PITA to get any significant number of people to switch over to SolidCoin too.

Quote

On top of the protocol improvements SolidCoin's start has been many times more fair than Bitcoins.

Quote

and see why people are jumping aboard.

From the price and hashrate charts, it looks more like people are jumping overboard.

FlipPro

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1015

Quote from: smoothie on August 29, 2011, 12:09:45 AM

If time it takes to mine 240 blocks exceeds 12 hours then the difficulty will drop.

Got it?

No not yet, trying really hard to though lol.

Is there anywhere we can get stats on the SC network with projected difficultys?

smoothie

legendary

Activity: 2492

Merit: 1473

LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

If time it takes to mine 240 blocks exceeds 12 hours then the difficulty will drop.

Got it?

Bobnova

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

If it's increasing, it's because it hasn't risen to the "proper" level yet.

FlipPro

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1015

Quote from: dub0matic on August 28, 2011, 10:33:26 PM

how long does it take for the difficulty to drop?or does it ever drop? it seems like it just keeps on increasing

Wondering the same exact thing?

"Twice daily difficulty retargets" ?