Topic: {ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen - page 17. (Read 45349 times)

I don't think can easily be done without Andre's consent:

Given that Andre couldn't refinance the mortgage on his house because of dings on his credit, it might be worth pulling a credit report on him to get an idea of how much he owes other creditors and what action they've taken against him so far. 

https://twitter.com/#!/gorkalitus/status/21884519681 roughly gives us a birthday:

A useful thing to do, if you have not done so, it log back into the site and print your entire profile and trading history.  I have these safely stored in pdf files covering 15 pages.  I would not like to see other people lose access to their information when (rather than if) the website is removed.

p.s. did a little search on Raetihi because it's a tiny town - Andre went to pre-school there around 1985-91. 
Also, my Commonwealth a/c didn't show anything useful on the corresponding Martin Place account.

Thanks, Chris,

So I guess it would be good for those transferring debt to get a separate confirmation statement from the seller, as well as the voucher code.

It's Chris, yes.

As I wrote before, my login access to the exchange's web host was disabled some time ago, but I was left with admin access to the exchange webapp:


which Andre confirmed here:


I have dumps of the database content, the most recent of which is dated 5th March 2012.  After that I could no longer log in to the web host to get access to the database, but I could still view and save user balances and transaction statements using the admin interface of the website itself.

As shown here, I was under the impression that I would be left with admin access until the BTC I'm holding were able to be returned to users.  I've not heard anything that contradicts this, but yet here's my account as it looks today.



An admin account would have a red "unfreeze" link in the header and would have the option of allowing me to see any or all user statements not just my own, like it did last time I saved a copy of it back in March:

Dooglus (Chris right?),

Assuming you still have FTP access to the server, you can get a copy of the SQL database which it runs off. This will have all the information you need. If you can view the files assuming you programmed them, look in the config or the database class for the username and password. Then run flat selects from all of the main tables into flat file dumps.

Happy to help with this as the code is all opensource and as you know I'm a developer.

I'm sorry to say that I no longer have admin access to the exchange.

I don't know when my account stopped being an admin account, but I just logged in to check that I could still see balances before telling you that I could, and found that I no longer can.

The most recent copy of the statement for all users I have is from "2:14:54pm 20-Mar", server time, and the most recent copy of user balances is from "2:13:48pm 20-Mar" server time.

So some time in the last month my account was downgraded from an admin account to a regular one.

That's the Commbank Martin Place  in Sydney BSB number.  It's not the online services BSB, so the account may have been set up in person.


There's online stuff linking him to HNWP prior to the launch of WBX, but that doesn't guarantee he was still associated with HNWP when WBX opened though.  There's not even any evidence that HNWP ever operated as a company selling financial and property services.

confirmed your confirmation.

The account listed on the website is:


Account title:   A R JENSEN
Bank:   CBA
Account number:   1249-6599
BSB:   062-000

Confirmed.

official statement:

i am selling my total WBX funds to brendio.

i have sent him a WBX code for a little over $497.33 and brendio has agreed via PM to send me 11 BTC for it.

edit: i've now received the 11 btc.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/buying-and-selling-world-bitcoin-exchange-wbx-funds-70147

I'm still unsure of my pricing. It may be crazily too high if the frozen bank account funds disappear and Andre has not other major assets, or it may be a bargain if the funds are released next week and we all get back the full amounts.

Good money after bad or not? Hmmm.

You'd be able to get the ASIC extract if you are prepared to fork out the fee for it.

Dooglus, are you able to provide records to substantiate account balances should this go to court? I have screenshots, but given that these can be photoshopped, it would be good to have more substantial evidence. Also, I am looking into buying other peoples debt so that it justifies the cost of pursuing legal action. I need to make sure that I can collect on debt obtain through voucher transfer subsequent to the halting of trading. Again, I am keeping screenshots, but the definite record of this is run by WBX.

Do we have any evidence that High Net Worth Property Pty Ltd has/had anything to do with Andre?

I've not been able to find an official list of the company directors.

The bank won't disclose those details over small claims stuff - it takes a pretty heavy duty court order for them to divulge information about their customers.  The account details would help with getting a point in time garnishee order against the bank account after obtaining judgement, but anyone with an ounce of sense would either close the account or leave no money in it.  It used to be possible to take a scattergun approach to garnishee orders and send them to the big 4 banks in the area where the person lived or worked but online banking makes it much harder to locate a bank account that way and you need to get the identifying information right anyway (you'd need DOB or TFN plus the right account name).

It should be possible to test whether the account is actually frozen by going to a branch and trying to make a small deposit to the account.  If it's actually frozen, it shouldn't be possible to deposit into the account.


Do both.  QCAT is Qld Fair Trading's small claims tribunal and you need to go through them to get a judgement against Andre which can then be used to pursue bankruptcy proceedings or take other recovery/enforcement action (different creditors can combine to force bankruptcy as long as the total owed exceeds $5000).  Fair Trading tries to mediate disputes and will investigate a business if they receive enough complaints about their unfair business practises - they may be able to find out what is really going on with WBX, but I wouldn't count on it.  What they may do is suggest a more appropriate agency for people to contact regarding WBX.

As Andre couldn't afford the mortgage payments on the Victorian house 11 months ago, I wouldn't hold out much hope of him having much in the way of assets which can be liquidated to satisfy any judgements or claims in bankruptcy against him.  I'm still not convinced that the other directors of HNWP are beyond reach.  Although the company has been de-registered, it doesn't appear to have been wound up and at least some clients of WBX may be entitled to some payment during the winding up process.  While the company probably had no assets at the time it was deregistered, the actions of the directors prior to the deregistration influence whether they have any personal liability for money owed by the company.

Andre's comments on the Kiwi Shack FB page make it clear that he's involved with the business too, not just his wife.

Hats off to you brendio.

Great work. A generous tip will be on its way to you when I get home.

I was about to file a case at the office of fair trading: http://www.fairtrading.qld.gov.au/online-complaint-form.htm

Would it be better to file one at QCAT?

Can you point me to the details of buying WBX debt. I'm interested as I'm fairly busy, however I'm still happy to go ahead and file an independent claim, if I go down this route, happy to work with you. My claim amount is substantial.

Thanks. Tip welcome: 1TipMEDeqWT1VUmmhH3rmkVrkA4KYRk2C 

I've also been looking into the procedures for complaints to the Office of Fair Trading and filing claims with QCAT. Claims to QCAT cost $95 for dispute amounts from $1,000 to $10,000. My amount is just over $1,000. I'm not sure if you can group claims, but the maximum claim they deal with is $25,000. Claims over $3,000 are referred to mediation first. To achieve economy of scale, I will point out again that I am willing to buy WBX debt. Contact me or look for my other thread on it for details.