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Topic: {ANNOUNCEMENT} WBX Exchange Frozen - page 15. (Read 45404 times)

legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
May 24, 2012, 05:28:52 PM
Andre, when you want me to pay out the remaining bitcoins, please take down the site to prevent further trading of balances between users who have apparently been trading their WBX balances between themselves using "vouchers", then send me a final database dump so I know how much to pay everyone.

Since you revoked my admin account I've been unable to see user balances, so currently have no idea how much each person is owed.

I'll set up a claim site so users can log in with their OpenID and specify a bitcoin address for me to refund the coins to.

Thanks.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
May 24, 2012, 05:08:07 PM
And in the links down the right hand side, where it says "news what's new", etc., it's all bold.  It used to be that the "news" was bold and the "what's new" subtitle wasn't.

This is just weird.  What's going on?

Hi All

I no longer have full control over the exchange site, a update on the recovery of all exchange member funds, recent correspondence with our banks and the banking ombudsman is the bank is entitled to hold all exchange funds as they were fraudulently taken from bank accounts across the country and deposited into my exchange account, the source of the fraud activity came from Germany a i can't tell you much more than that. 

This being said Chris has the only funds (assets) of the exchange, they will need to be returned to the exchange members.

Thanks Andre   

I will be online for the next hour to answer any questions

I can prove my funds were not fraudulently taken, and simply deposited with you (as you were operating as an individual and not as a company).  I have requested, and do so again here, for contact details with your lawyers or other advisers as you are reluctant to provide information directly.

You will also note I have issued you a notice requiring you to repay the Australian dollars that you hold, or I will  pass the debt to a collection agency as you are personally liable, and the funds involved are not related to bitcoin trading, so easily verifiable.

If you consider this hostile, it should be understandable that across this community there is a lot of money at stake, as I am sure you are aware.

Patrick

Hi PatricK


To be honest mate i have no money to pay you the scammers, banks have taken it all, please provide your lawyers contact details here and i will contact them unfortunately i can't afford to have lawyers represent me anymore.

Thanks Andre
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
May 24, 2012, 05:00:24 PM
And in the links down the right hand side, where it says "news what's new", etc., it's all bold.  It used to be that the "news" was bold and the "what's new" subtitle wasn't.

This is just weird.  What's going on?

Hi All

I no longer have full control over the exchange site, a update on the recovery of all exchange member funds, recent correspondence with our banks and the banking ombudsman is the bank is entitled to hold all exchange funds as they were fraudulently taken from bank accounts across the country and deposited into my exchange account, the source of the fraud activity came from Germany a i can't tell you much more than that. 

This being said Chris has the only funds (assets) of the exchange, they will need to be returned to the exchange members.

Thanks Andre   

I will be online for the next hour to answer any questions

I can prove my funds were not fraudulently taken, and simply deposited with you (as you were operating as an individual and not as a company).  I have requested, and do so again here, for contact details with your lawyers or other advisers as you are reluctant to provide information directly.

You will also note I have issued you a notice requiring you to repay the Australian dollars that you hold, or I will  pass the debt to a collection agency as you are personally liable, and the funds involved are not related to bitcoin trading, so easily verifiable.

If you consider this hostile, it should be understandable that across this community there is a lot of money at stake, as I am sure you are aware.

Patrick
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
May 24, 2012, 04:46:43 PM
And in the links down the right hand side, where it says "news what's new", etc., it's all bold.  It used to be that the "news" was bold and the "what's new" subtitle wasn't.

This is just weird.  What's going on?

Hi All

I no longer have full control over the exchange site, a update on the recovery of all exchange member funds, recent correspondence with our banks and the banking ombudsman is the bank is entitled to hold all exchange funds as they were fraudulently taken from bank accounts across the country and deposited into my exchange account, the source of the fraud activity came from Germany a i can't tell you much more than that. 

This being said Chris has the only funds (assets) of the exchange, they will need to be returned to the exchange members.

Thanks Andre   

I will be online for the next hour to answer any questions
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
May 24, 2012, 03:48:15 AM
The home which was the registered address of High Net Worth Property Pty Ltd prior to its move to the Gold Coast - almost certainly belonged to one of the directors and probably Andre - was sold in June last year.  

http://www.business.com.au/high-net-worth-property-pty-ltd-/

http://www.realestate.com.au/sold/in-badger+creek,+vic+3777/list-1
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
May 24, 2012, 03:16:48 AM
And in the links down the right hand side, where it says "news what's new", etc., it's all bold.  It used to be that the "news" was bold and the "what's new" subtitle wasn't.

This is just weird.  What's going on?
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
May 24, 2012, 02:54:03 AM
The info about it being connected to High Net Worth Property Pty Ltd also seems to have been removed as does the information referring to Andre and Chris and the reference to their location as being "Gold Coast".
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
May 24, 2012, 02:46:59 AM
Site news for this year is missing....
Come on Andre, what's going on?

The orderbook is completely empty too:
  https://www.worldbitcoinexchange.com/?page=orderbook

I think last time I looked, it wasn't.

Edit: my account still exists, but the "you are logged in, but need to become VERIFIED before you can withdraw or Deposit funds" at the top is new.  I used to be "VERIFIED".  So it's not that the database has been completely reset.
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
May 24, 2012, 01:36:28 AM
Site news for this year is missing....
Come on Andre, what's going on?
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
May 17, 2012, 10:00:26 PM
And its back again.  

Wonder whats going on there...

I checked when you wrote that it was down, but it was still up for me.
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
May 17, 2012, 09:10:12 PM
And its back again. 

Wonder whats going on there...
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
May 15, 2012, 11:24:04 PM
...aaaaaaaaand worldbitcoinexchange web site now down.   Hope you all archived your records.
donator
Activity: 848
Merit: 1078
May 01, 2012, 12:55:48 AM
I'm still in need of an address. Anybody have this? What is his wife's business address?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
April 22, 2012, 11:15:38 PM
I have no intention of throwing words around, nor will a police complaint achieve the return of funds.  It is a civil matter, not a criminal one.  (However, Mr Jensen may have engaged in criminal activity, but I am not able to make that statement.)
hero member
Activity: 868
Merit: 1000
April 22, 2012, 08:12:19 PM
On a seperate note: I was thinking about claiming internet fraud with the state police. All of you were talking about claiming to the trade authorities - why not just state police? I would say he scammed us, so its Internet fraus as well, isn't it? After all he was not a registered exchange with an exchange licence.

Owing someone money is generally a civil matter and the remedy is seeking a judgement against them which can then be enforced through a number of different ways.

You can certainly make a report to Queensland Police Service, but fraud is a very specific criminal offence and it's a lot more complicated than failing to pay people you owe money.  Yes, WBX was operating without a licence but 1) that was disclosed to customers on the website and 2) the police are not the entity which deals with breaches of licensing requirements.  They are responsible for investigating fraud - including online fraud - but it's not clear that WBX's activities would meet the legal benchmarks for being classified as fraud.

If you believe that WBX was a scam from the start, then Scamwatch is the federal body with whom you should file a report (they're part of the ACCC).

https://www.scamwatch.gov.au/content/index.phtml/tag/reportascam/

Here's a brief summary of Qld law in relation to fraud.

Quote
In order for the Police to prove their case at Court, they must prove each of the following matters beyond a reasonable doubt.

1 (a) The accused applied to his or her own use

(i) property belonging to another

(ii) property belonging to the accused, or which is in the accused’s possession, either solely or jointly with another person, subject to a trust, direction or condition or on account of any other person.

“ Applied” means taking or using another’s property for the accused’s own purposes.

Or (b) The accused obtained the property from any person.

“ Obtain” includes to get, gain, receive or acquire in any way (s 408C (3) (e))

Or (c) the accused induced any person to deliver property to any person.

Or (d) The accused gained a benefit or advantage, pecuniary or otherwise, to any person.

Or (e) The accused caused a detriment, pecuniary or otherwise, to any person

Or (f) The accused induced any person to do an act which the person was lawfully entitled to abstain from doing

Or (g) The accused induced any person to abstain from doing an act which the person was lawfully entitled to do

Or (h) the accused made off knowing that payment on the spot was required or expected for property lawfully supplied or returned or any service lawfully provided, without having paid and with intent to avoid payment.

2. The action of the defendant must have been done dishonestly.

To prove the accused acted dishonestly the prosecution must prove that what the defendant did was dishonest by the standards of ordinary honest people and that the defendant realised that what he or she did was dishonest by those standards.

Specific provision in s 408C(b) and (c) in relation to whether an act or omission is dishonest.

It will be necessary for the Police in every offence to prove that the accused was the person who committed the offence. Click here to learn more about identification evidence.

http://www.australiancriminallawyers.com.au/web/page/QLD_Law_Fraud

If you believe that WBX constituted a financial or investment scam, then an ASIC report would also be appropriate.

https://www.moneysmart.gov.au/scams/report-a-scam

Who you report to really depends on what you believe happened.  Do you believe that Andre has misappropriated user funds for his own use or do you believe that he had a bad business model which was doomed to fail from the start?  Do you believe there are any assets which may be available to people owed money by WBX or not?  Do you believe that Andre could pay people but is simply choosing not to?  Intention is extremely relevant if you're going to start throwing around words like "fraud" and scam.

R-
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Pasta
April 22, 2012, 06:02:39 PM
Y'all going to take this man to court?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
April 22, 2012, 04:19:14 PM
So, let's assume I add another $1000 into the claim and noone else joins. You get $4000 back. This would mean that there is an access of $715. I would get 50% of those $715 = $357.5.

On a seperate note regarding the cost: would it be possible to get an official (tax-deductable) bill for the costs?

If your funds were provided by an entity entitled to claim, or you wished the expenses to be billed to a tax registered entity, then yes (I don't see why not).  The tricky thing in that is that each case/circumstance is going to be slightly different.  Mine is fairly simple as I can show money flow between CBA accounts without any coin trading, so it's a simple cash debt that has not been repaid, so the absence of a written or signed contract is less of an issue.

As for recovery, it might be easier to cover costs first, and then pool all claims, but the basic idea was that if you don't or are not able to contribute to costs, then you could receive up to 50% of your losses back.
sr. member
Activity: 395
Merit: 250
April 22, 2012, 04:12:26 PM
So, let's assume I add another $1000 into the claim and noone else joins. You get $4000 back. This would mean that there is an access of $715. I would get 50% of those $715 = $357.5.

On a seperate note regarding the cost: would it be possible to get an official (tax-deductable) bill for the costs?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
April 22, 2012, 04:05:00 PM
I should have been a little clearer on the 50/50 (sorry).  I am after the recovery of approximately $3,285 plus costs.  That would sit as #1 ranking as that's how it would work if I was running this solo.

If you add another $1000 to the value attempting to be recovered, and I am successful at obtaining that full amount, you get $500, and it scales back from that.  Certainly if I'm only able to get half of what I'm owed, it'll be unlikely there would be any other money for any of his other creditors either. 

(As a variation, if someone wanted to contribute directly to costs, then that would change their position in a distribution.  I think that would be fair.)

If I make a claim to the police, and they prosecute, my current view is that I'm unlikely to get any money out of that, but that's why I have legal advisers.
sr. member
Activity: 395
Merit: 250
April 22, 2012, 03:55:37 PM
However, as this course of action is not available to all of the people that have money tied up with Mr Jensen (due to cost) if you wish to join the deal is 50/50.  i.e. you get back half of what you are owed, and the other half (if recovered) goes to offset costs.   You can pm me with basic details (an email account, and value currently owed).
Sounds interesting. Let's discuss in detail but I'm most likely in.
On a seperate note: I was thinking about claiming internet fraud with the state police. All of you were talking about claiming to the trade authorities - why not just state police? I would say he scammed us, so its Internet fraus as well, isn't it? After all he was not a registered exchange with an exchange licence.
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