[ANN][PHS][50% PoS ONLY!] PhilosopherStones | ACTIVE Dev! | ~64% Yearly | - page 32.

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Added a new and more secure bootstrap method to lower demand/bandwidth on current nodes for new users syncing. This page has download and full instructions.

https://github.com/philosopherstonecoin/philosopherstone/releases

The new format requires 30 minutes - 8 hrs run-time to use (hardware dependent and is faster than a fresh full network sync).

zuepfi11

full member

Activity: 128

Merit: 100

Quote from: Palmdetroit on March 15, 2015, 01:52:42 PM

Quote from: zuepfi11 on March 13, 2015, 11:08:43 PM

one question: what is the max. supply of phs ?

edit: 8.9 million correct?

Hi,

Hard coded cap is the same as NVC/PPC, which is 2 billion.

Since PHS is PoS only, hitting a hard cap would give 0 reason to stake anymore, so setting a hard limit isn't feasible anyway (fees are destroyed). IF we make no changes to code, and assuming 100% of PHS stakes constantly, this would take ~18 years. Of course, we average ~70% or so of staking so in reality closer to ~24 years from today.

PHS works by consensus of the network, my current feelings is we should cap the amount of stake per block sometime in the next year or so. But this will need to be an open community decision.

The average for the last 50k blocks was ~441.2 blocks per day and ~2,102 PHS created per day.

Just an example, but an option:

If we set a maximum stake of to 10 PHS per block, we would limit PHS production to ~4.4k per day. (could do more or less). At 10 million PHS this is a 16% annual inflation year 1, 15% year two... etc, decreasing in % on a steady curve.

Bitcoin of course has a hard limit and designed as a store of value, with PHS we have some leverage in what we want to do, a healthy 4% annual inflation in 10 years onward would also be feasible. Ultimately it's up to you guys to decide.

PD

May be a mistake above in the number, Just wanted to illustrate options. Wink

thanks!

okok, sounds really interesting your idea ,but for me its hard to say which interest works near the best .of course at the moment 50% Tongue

mxn

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

Quote from: Palmdetroit on March 15, 2015, 02:10:36 PM

100 nodes
10x100 = 1 kWh/h
90*1 = 90 w/hr
1.09 kWh/hr with 100 nodes

Then PHS is around 9.5 Megawatthours per year?
Enough to be proud, data of POWs in same scale would be interesting, maybe this energy can be made out of trees

Quote

...when you compare it to physical currency creation,...

Compare 1.6 Terrawatthours (math) or double >3.2 TWh (experience), i dont know many physical processes near that, seems close to a nuclear powerplant or developing country. Satoshi took electricity like gold, a rare resource, was he aware of upcoming years too? Large amounts of energy produced clean, cheap and everywhere by solar, fusion or whatever. Numbers given by science drawing a scenery where competition on energy is less relevant, and so POW can be. Hard to predict timescales or truth, what always stays relevant is a functional planet of course.

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Quote from: mxn on March 14, 2015, 03:26:43 PM

sorrros, thanks for clearing, all our calculations as on reddit came to the same result, 1.6 Terrawatthours per year. >1 J per GH/s may more reality, think on old mining hardware, mining bots, badly configured software, free/cheap energy some use on their workplaces, etc. Other carbon wasting systems like cars can be fixed, mining is competitive by design, sorry BTC and many alts, your energy consumption looks broken.

Just for understanding, Antminers data on power consumption should be 590 Ws, not Watt as they wrote?

Welcome therealbigcoin

PHS runs near 2 years, history thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-philosopherstone-phs-no-premine-mandatory-update-12beta3-263744

Yep, I know there is still bitcoin mining zombie bots using CPU still to this day, even find one on occasion in the wild.

Well lets do PHS in comparison. Cheesy

PHS averages about 50-100 nodes.

I guesstimated 10% of these nodes are run 100% of the time only for PHS OR have greater than 800 dust (stakes) which eats up 100% of 1 PC core. So I used 100 w/hr for them.

For every other node, which I guess just runs PHS in addition to a typical work day or on a computer running anyway, about 1 watt/hr. Might actually be less or more.

so 50 nodes:
5*100 = 500 w/hr
45*1 = 45 w/hr
.545 kWh/hr with 50 nodes

100 nodes
10x100 = 1 kWh/h
90*1 = 90 w/hr
1.09 kWh/hr with 100 nodes

Just some rough numbers here, might have mistakes, whats our yearly look like? And how many trees are we going to plant Cool

Also I know bitcoin looks bad on paper, but when you compare it to physical currency creation, shipping, etc it's actually very green, just not as much as PoS.

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Quote from: zuepfi11 on March 13, 2015, 11:08:43 PM

one question: what is the max. supply of phs ?

edit: 8.9 million correct?

Hi,

Hard coded cap is the same as NVC/PPC, which is 2 billion.

Since PHS is PoS only, hitting a hard cap would give 0 reason to stake anymore, so setting a hard limit isn't feasible anyway (fees are destroyed). IF we make no changes to code, and assuming 100% of PHS stakes constantly, this would take ~18 years. Of course, we average ~70% or so of staking so in reality closer to ~24 years from today.

PHS works by consensus of the network, my current feelings is we should cap the amount of stake per block sometime in the next year or so. But this will need to be an open community decision.

The average for the last 50k blocks was ~441.2 blocks per day and ~2,102 PHS created per day.

Just an example, but an option:

If we set a maximum stake of to 10 PHS per block, we would limit PHS production to ~4.4k per day. (could do more or less). At 10 million PHS this is a 16% annual inflation year 1, 15% year two... etc, decreasing in % on a steady curve.

Bitcoin of course has a hard limit and designed as a store of value, with PHS we have some leverage in what we want to do, a healthy 4% annual inflation in 10 years onward would also be feasible. Ultimately it's up to you guys to decide.

PD

May be a mistake above in the number, Just wanted to illustrate options. Wink

sorrros

full member

Activity: 954

Merit: 104

ludenaprotocol.io

In fact 590 W is correct;

590 (W) / 1155 (GH/s) = 0.51 J/GH

Watts are Joules/second; W = J/s

That was a good refresher on physics !

mxn

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

sorrros, thanks for clearing, all our calculations as on reddit came to the same result, 1.6 Terrawatthours per year. >1 J per GH/s may more reality, think on old mining hardware, mining bots, badly configured software, free/cheap energy some use on their workplaces, etc. Other carbon wasting systems like cars can be fixed, mining is competitive by design, sorry BTC and many alts, your energy consumption looks broken.

Just for understanding, Antminers data on power consumption should be 590 Ws, not Watt as they wrote?

Welcome therealbigcoin

PHS runs near 2 years, history thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ann-philosopherstone-phs-no-premine-mandatory-update-12beta3-263744

Edit: Some more history, the artwork of DKdance (his talent is missing here): http://imgur.com/a/NKmOd/

therealbigcoin

sr. member

Activity: 729

Merit: 251

PHS will be the future, its the best coin i know with POS. Its also very old and well established so no fast pump n dump. I dont know why the trading volume is so low, but i think we could see a steady rise soon, if noone wanna sell and better go staking ^^ Also its a good store of value as we saw, while btc tanks, phs still goes up 20% Cheesy

Maybe more capital coming, if btc goes down now.

What do you guys think?
Greetings

sorrros

full member

Activity: 954

Merit: 104

ludenaprotocol.io

Quote from: mxn on March 13, 2015, 09:34:21 PM

Here is part of my calc on BTC at time of March 2015, maybe expert people do more research into this, from my perspective need of fully POS coins is given by math.

Code:

I updated current Bitcoin electric energy consumption, calculated like here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hlwpy/5_terrawatt_per_hour_bitcoin_network/cktv3xl

BTC global hashrate:
360.000.000 Megahash/Second

Source: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Current mining efficiency:
Optimistic: 0.51 Wh per Gigahash/s

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

Consumption of the network per year:
(360 000 000 / 1000) * 0.51 = 183 600 kWh per hour

183 600 x 24 x 365 = 1 608 336 000 kWh p.a. = 1.6 Terrawatthours per year

Please correct some numbers you know better, even if 10% is real, too much carbon is burning in this moment, possible >1,6 million tons of coal a year, by a software with only 3 billions market cap, what else can go wrong?

Hi mxn,

In fact the starting point is 0.51 J/GH, which equates 0,000277778 Wh/GH, not 0.51 Wh per GH/s

This is a pretty tricky conversion to use to go from Joules to KWh and Wh: 1J = (1/3600000)kWh = 1 Ws = 0,000277778 Wh
This can help: http://www.unitconversion.org/unit_converter/energy.html

In addition, the total Hashrate is 360 000 000 GH/s, not MH/s.

Then if you assume 1,842 kWh per ton of Coal following US Energy Information Administration, the estimate would be >870'000 tons of coal...
Source: http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=667&t=6

See below-
Power Efficiency    0,51     J/GH
Total BTC GH/s    360 000 000,00     GH/s
Total BTC GH/H    1 296 000 000 000,00     GH/H

Hourly BTC energy consumption (J/H)    662 025 974 025,97     J/H
Hourly BTC energy consumption (KWh/H)    183 896,10     KWh/H

Yearly BTC energy consumption (KWh/Y)    1 610 929 870,13     KWh p.a.

Tons of Coal/Kwh    0,0005429     T/KWh
Yearl coal consumption    874 554,76     T p.a.

I've double-checked with the calculator from Coinwarz and the math square. On average, the J/GH consumption may be roughly double of the AntMiner you used as a starting point - so you have ultimately produced a good estimate of Coal consumption Wink

This is indeed VERY bad.

zuepfi11

full member

Activity: 128

Merit: 100

one question: what is the max. supply of phs ?

edit: 8.9 million correct?

mxn

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

Here is part of my calc on BTC at time of March 2015, maybe expert people do more research into this, from my perspective need of fully POS coins is given by math.

Code:

I updated current Bitcoin electric energy consumption, calculated like here:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2hlwpy/5_terrawatt_per_hour_bitcoin_network/cktv3xl

BTC global hashrate:
360.000.000 Megahash/Second

Source: https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Current mining efficiency:
Optimistic: 0.51 Wh per Gigahash/s

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.0

Consumption of the network per year:
(360 000 000 / 1000) * 0.51 = 183 600 kWh per hour

183 600 x 24 x 365 = 1 608 336 000 kWh p.a. = 1.6 Terrawatthours per year

Please correct some numbers you know better, even if 10% is real, too much carbon is burning in this moment, possible >1,6 million tons of coal a year, by a software with only 3 billions market cap, what else can go wrong?

therealbigcoin

sr. member

Activity: 729

Merit: 251

Hi
Thanks for the very good answers, now everything is clear

And all that without trolls.
I will open my bid walls too Tongue

greetings

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Added fork history of PHS original to OP.

PHS history and family tree:
Bitcoin > Peercoin > Novacoin > features from: Bottlecaps / Lucky Coin / Diamond Coin / Florin Coin (fixed 0 stake, random blocks, messages)

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Quote from: therealbigcoin on March 11, 2015, 04:22:59 PM

Any Traders watching cryptsy charts and going long/short=?

currently some bid walls incoming, maybe there are some speculative traders coming ?

I just red the last comments, am i right, the coinage will get destroyed after 15 days if i do not stak it?

greetings

Someone on google was asking technical questions about PHS, IE did it had features from Florin coin (messaging), yes it does.

as Ali said above, at 15 days weight stops accumulating, but coin-age has no limit,. so if you wait 2 years you will get 100% return, if you stake more often you will get much more with compounding , however.

PD

alibabacool

full member

Activity: 139

Merit: 100

Quote from: therealbigcoin on March 11, 2015, 04:22:59 PM

am i right, the coinage will get destroyed after 15 days if i do not stak it?

No. After 15 days a weight of single chunk is not growing anymore, and takes constant value until it gets stake.

therealbigcoin

sr. member

Activity: 729

Merit: 251

Any Traders watching cryptsy charts and going long/short=?

currently some bid walls incoming, maybe there are some speculative traders coming ?

I just red the last comments, am i right, the coinage will get destroyed after 15 days if i do not stak it?

greetings

Muzzargh

member

Activity: 133

Merit: 10

Cheers

Palmdetroit

legendary

Activity: 910

Merit: 1000

PHS 50% PoS - Stop mining start minting

Quote from: sorrros on February 18, 2015, 06:21:34 PM

Quote from: Muzzargh on February 18, 2015, 06:48:01 AM

I have 8.79041 stones "Generated but not accepted", what does that mean? Huh

Forget about these stones they are not in the PHS blockchain (i.e. they don't exist); typically you get roughly the same amount a bit later (confirmed by the PHS network)...

Yup., It's normal , when you see a ? it just means orphan and it will try again, when successful you'll notice a slightly larger amount.

You can also remove any ?'s using wallet>checkwallet on menu, and if it finds anything backup your wallet and then do a repairwallet from same menu. Then the '?'s will be gone.

PD

sorrros

full member

Activity: 954

Merit: 104

ludenaprotocol.io

Quote from: Muzzargh on February 18, 2015, 06:48:01 AM

I have 8.79041 stones "Generated but not accepted", what does that mean? Huh

Forget about these stones they are not in the PHS blockchain (i.e. they don't exist); typically you get roughly the same amount a bit later (confirmed by the PHS network)...

zuepfi11

full member

Activity: 128

Merit: 100

good question.found this in mintcoin/forum : "Those are the orphaned blocks which I've gotten a few time as well. It's just a normal occurrence in minting. Just keep your wallet open and it will re-stake automatically."

Topic: [ANN][PHS][50% PoS ONLY!] PhilosopherStones | ACTIVE Dev! | ~64% Yearly | - page 32. (Read 69711 times)