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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 143. (Read 1276789 times)

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Hi

Is anyone else having problems with Rock Paper Scissors?



As my game history shows, I appear to win because my opponent often makes move "NA".

Please could someone explain why the game does not appear to work effectively?  Are players too impatient to wait for conformations?

The problem is that the other user isn't finishing the game. There's no way to tell why not.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
yes the prize amounts cannot be the same as powerball since it is unrealistic to use fixed pay outs unless this is being done by a large entity who already has the funds.  the payout as i mentioned above should ensure that at least 33% of the tickets get something.  does it do that?

You're going to need a big bankroll regardless, if you want to run any sort of lottery. That's because, by definition, if you're working with fixed probabilities there's no guarantee reality will follow exactly the expected distribution. What if only one person enters, and they win a prize? (The situation is different with a raffle, where the probabilities and payouts change together.) Real lotteries solve this problem by buying insurance and things like that.

I originally followed the probabilities of the real Powerball for payouts, which means that you have about a 1/35 chance of winning a prize. I just pushed a change giving the ability to payout on fewer matched numbers, so that you can bring that number down if you like. If you give a small payout for even a single match, my back of the envelope calculations say people should have about a 50% chance of winning. Smiley

cool thanks!

Hopefully one of the dev's can check your code soon, so you can get the award.  I'll keep bugging them but I guess it is the weekend.  



No worries! Thanks for setting this all up!

I should say, if there's anything you don't like about the way I interpreted the spec, let me know. I'm happy to make any tweaks that are necessary. I want everyone on both sides to feel good about how this went. Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
yes the prize amounts cannot be the same as powerball since it is unrealistic to use fixed pay outs unless this is being done by a large entity who already has the funds.  the payout as i mentioned above should ensure that at least 33% of the tickets get something.  does it do that?

You're going to need a big bankroll regardless, if you want to run any sort of lottery. That's because, by definition, if you're working with fixed probabilities there's no guarantee reality will follow exactly the expected distribution. What if only one person enters, and they win a prize? (The situation is different with a raffle, where the probabilities and payouts change together.) Real lotteries solve this problem by buying insurance and things like that.

I originally followed the probabilities of the real Powerball for payouts, which means that you have about a 1/35 chance of winning a prize. I just pushed a change giving the ability to payout on fewer matched numbers, so that you can bring that number down if you like. If you give a small payout for even a single match, my back of the envelope calculations say people should have about a 50% chance of winning. Smiley

cool thanks!

Hopefully one of the dev's can check your code soon, so you can get the award.  I'll keep bugging them but I guess it is the weekend.  

member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
A difference which makes a difference
I know that the Counterparty Contract Lottery contest has not been completely finalized yet but I would just like to say bravo to prophetx for proposing it in the first place and kudos to semiel for rising to the challenge, and in record time!

What other Counterparty Contracts would we like to see implemented. Which ones would have the most impact?

Would it be possible to have a Counterparty Contract that creates a hash of all the Counterparty Protocol data up to a particular block and encodes that data in the blockchain (using OP_RETURN). The Counterparty Protocol data up until that point could be downloaded from any channel (radio, sneaker-net, sateliite, torrents, etc.) and using an SPV capable thin client the hash could be verified, thus the Counterparty Protocol data could have it's integrity trustlessly verified (or not, as the case may be).
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
is there a multipool for XCP

XCP is not mine-able. All the XCP that will ever exist have already been generated by proof-of-burn.

Multipool is for coins that are not mine-able.  They mine various coins of the same algorithm (e.g. scrypt or X11) depending on profitability, and trade for (none-mineable-currency) via exchange, and payout miners in the the desired currency.  An XCP multipool would be a good idea.
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
A difference which makes a difference
is there a multipool for XCP

XCP is not mine-able. All the XCP that will ever exist have already been generated by proof-of-burn.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
is there a multipool for XCP
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
yes the prize amounts cannot be the same as powerball since it is unrealistic to use fixed pay outs unless this is being done by a large entity who already has the funds.  the payout as i mentioned above should ensure that at least 33% of the tickets get something.  does it do that?

You're going to need a big bankroll regardless, if you want to run any sort of lottery. That's because, by definition, if you're working with fixed probabilities there's no guarantee reality will follow exactly the expected distribution. What if only one person enters, and they win a prize? (The situation is different with a raffle, where the probabilities and payouts change together.) Real lotteries solve this problem by buying insurance and things like that.

I originally followed the probabilities of the real Powerball for payouts, which means that you have about a 1/35 chance of winning a prize. I just pushed a change giving the ability to payout on fewer matched numbers, so that you can bring that number down if you like. If you give a small payout for even a single match, my back of the envelope calculations say people should have about a 50% chance of winning. Smiley
sr. member
Activity: 432
Merit: 250
Thanks Semiel Smiley

Question for the devs: is there anything new to report on new exchanges enabling the trading of BTC/XCP?

Not a dev, but noticed something.

A short while ago some guys from business development over at Cryptonext were asking in Skype chat about how to integrate XCP into their white label cryptocurrency exchange service. https://cryptonext.net/

This will make XCP tradeable against many different kinds of fiat (and other cryptocurrencies) in many different countries around the world.
https://cryptonext.net/?page=aboutUs#clients

So whoever makes a Cryptonext white label exchange, will be able to add XCP to the trading system automatically.
member
Activity: 129
Merit: 14
Hi

Is anyone else having problems with Rock Paper Scissors?



As my game history shows, I appear to win because my opponent often makes move "NA".

Please could someone explain why the game does not appear to work effectively?  Are players too impatient to wait for conformations?
sr. member
Activity: 617
Merit: 250
Thanks Semiel Smiley

Question for the devs: is there anything new to report on new exchanges enabling the trading of BTC/XCP?
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
Alright, here we go! I've got a fairly polished proof of concept up on Github:

https://github.com/PeterBorah/ethereum-powerball

Instructions for use are in the readme.

I've got a decent number of automated tests for it. Obviously any script that gets banged out in an afternoon is likely to have some residual bugs, but hopefully I've tested it sufficiently that there won't be any major problems.

It hits almost all of the points of the spec, and tries to be very close to the way Powerball works. (Powerball has some weird features, like every prize except the jackpot being fixed, and pretty complex rules for how the jackpot works.) I went with requiring people to claim the prize, since that's what prophetx requested, but of course that could be easily changed.

There is one small deviation from the spec: the ability to set the number of balls. This turned out to be surprisingly difficult, since Serpent doesn't deal well with not knowing how many values there will be ahead of time. However, you can set the payouts for each prize, and by switching out the RNG you can change how many possible values there are for each ball. And of course it would be very easy to modify the code to use, e.g., four balls instead of five.

If that's a dealbreaker, maybe someone can try to add that support, and split the bounty with me. Wink Or maybe prophetx will decide it's good enough as is.

Either way, thanks for the interesting challenge!

Best,
Peter
XCP: 1LeygZteCpjBstARoyt3uHgPhV8aJHsBAg

I think the total commitments now are about 106 XCP Smiley  I think I will have the folks send their award donations individually to your address, so that we save on fees/times, once the final verification of the code being functional is done.  I'll provide an accounting of all the donators when I get back from Miami later today.

yes the prize amounts cannot be the same as powerball since it is unrealistic to use fixed pay outs unless this is being done by a large entity who already has the funds.  the payout as i mentioned above should ensure that at least 33% of the tickets get something.  does it do that?

The last part I need to give our the award is to have either a known Ethereum dev or a known XCP (Adam, Evan, Robby, BTCDrak, etc)  dev to look at this code and give their opinion that it should do what it does.  

Or perhaps you can offer a piece of the award to someone who can run it on the testnet network and make a simple webpage for people to test making a lotto and getting/sending tickets, that would be fine as well (although i think that would be too much time/trouble)


oh and thanks for getting this done so quick!

legendary
Activity: 2002
Merit: 1040
I think a lottery system has great potential to act as catalyst for collective social development in a far effective manor then what Taxes do, A while back I wrote some Ideas as to how I see it being more effective than mandatory taxes.

Sitoshi’s Ghost - A lottery that implements true democracy by generating value through values


Very cool stuff. Led me to look up the full article on fractal evolution: http://newrealities.com/index.php/articles-on-new-sciences/item/299-why-darwin-is-wrong-and-fractal-evolution-by-alan-steinfeld

The last part of which is fascinating.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
Alright, here we go! I've got a fairly polished proof of concept up on Github:

https://github.com/PeterBorah/ethereum-powerball

Instructions for use are in the readme.

I've got a decent number of automated tests for it. Obviously any script that gets banged out in an afternoon is likely to have some residual bugs, but hopefully I've tested it sufficiently that there won't be any major problems.

It hits almost all of the points of the spec, and tries to be very close to the way Powerball works. (Powerball has some weird features, like every prize except the jackpot being fixed, and pretty complex rules for how the jackpot works.) I went with requiring people to claim the prize, since that's what prophetx requested, but of course that could be easily changed.

There is one small deviation from the spec: the ability to set the number of balls. This turned out to be surprisingly difficult, since Serpent doesn't deal well with not knowing how many values there will be ahead of time. However, you can set the payouts for each prize, and by switching out the RNG you can change how many possible values there are for each ball. And of course it would be very easy to modify the code to use, e.g., four balls instead of five.

If that's a dealbreaker, maybe someone can try to add that support, and split the bounty with me. Wink Or maybe prophetx will decide it's good enough as is.

Either way, thanks for the interesting challenge!

Best,
Peter
XCP: 1LeygZteCpjBstARoyt3uHgPhV8aJHsBAg
sr. member
Activity: 444
Merit: 260
I think a lottery system has great potential to act as catalyst for collective social development in a far effective manor then what Taxes do, A while back I wrote some Ideas as to how I see it being more effective than mandatory taxes.

Satoshi’s Ghost - A lottery that implements true democracy by generating value through values

THE GAME
The idea is a lottery that runs autonomously using the spirit of satoshi nakamoto.
 
We create a DAO lottery that uses a “Satoshi’s Ghost” SG, to determine the winners. Users guess the time SG will reveal itself and payouts are paid according to the closest guess, If you get it 100% correct you win the portion of the winners pool (less the portion that goes to the voters priority allocation), if you are the closest but not 100% correct, a deduction is made based on how far out you were from the time and that is carried over to the next reveal.
 
Satoshi’s Ghost reveals itself at random intervals, these can have tiered weights based on the intervals they occur:- They can be time based or on the block numbers, for ease of illustration below are some examples using time, but block numbers may be more practical.
 
Example using time
Hourly       There is an SG reveal once every hour
Daily       (one of the hourly reveals is a special reveal that counts as the daily reveal)
Weekly    (one of the daily reveals is a special reveal that counts as the weekly reveal)
Monthly    (one of the weekly reveals is a special reveal that counts as the monthly reveal)
Annually    (one of the monthly reveals is a special reveal that counts as the annual reveal)
……...and so on

Several interesting permeinentations can be added, like allowing users to not only to bet on the exact time but just a sequence of hours that the daily reveals will occur in a week, or the sequence of days the weekly reveals will occur in a month etc.

A percentage of the subordinate intervals payouts are carried over to the next tier to make them more interesting and for long term resource allocation, which I will explain later.

Also there could be a super reveal that occurs if the real satoshi nakamoto reveals himself by sending some proof (not sure if this is possible) but if it is, he could do this while he is living or posthumously using a time contract, this may also be possible without exposing his real identity (should he so choose)?
 
Using a voting system (ideally Bitvote) SG we will identify and rank needs, we allow users to use bitvote to nominate and vote for where they would like to see the funds allocated from the Resource Pool to those needs or objectives they think the most deserving.

Pools
So with each SG reveal the proceeds are split into two pools the Winners Pool and the Resource Pool, the percentage splits between the pools can also be a function of Bitvote.
The winners pool is the payout that goes to the closest time of the SG reveal, if exact 100% of that pool is shared amongst those who guessed it correctly, If not a portion of the pool is shared amongst those who came closest, again the percentage can be determined by bitvote.
The resource pool is paid out according to the ranked needs identified by Bitvote. How far down the bitvote ranking and what percentage is paid to each can also all be functions of bitvote.

The whole SG Lottery will operate on a DAO Platform like The People's Republic of DOUG using Ethereum architecture.

Long Term Resource Allocation
By having the tiered reveal system and carrying over a percentage of the  subordinate pools to higher pools it will be possible for SG to address both short term and long term priorities. The Bivote rankings will match the time intervals of the various SG reveals and in so doing both short and long term resource allocation is provided for.

How is the SG reveal determined? Converting an algorithm generated by the Bitvote ranking system results to time, if the closing time for SG predictions close prior to the Bitvote ranking algorithm function call, users will not able to predict the SG time reveal.

Example

References
https://ethereum.org/
http://www.avaaz.org/en/
https://github.com/BitVote/bitvote.github.io/wiki
http://forum.ethereum.org/discussion/1009/the-people-s-republic-of-doug-ethereum-based-decentralized-organization#latest
https://github.com/dennismckinnon/Ethereum-Contracts/tree/master/Dennys%20Lotto
http://oracles.li/

THE PHILOSOPHY
Why is a decentralised socially driven lottery system Interesting.

Our current “Western Democracy” runs on the principle of centralised power that is administered from the top down. This requires the establishment of structures to implement and oversee policy, basically a pyramid hierarchy. Throughout history this has been proven repeatedly to fail, as these structures increase so too does the income gap until ultimately there is some sort of social revolt, the pyramid hierarchy is reshuffled and the process begins again.

The other problem is taxes, taxes are meant to be used for the collective good and are levied on the productive economy and administered by the central government. This only works when the government remains small, efficient and non corruptible. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely” - John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, history has repeatedly shown this to be the case. The current economic recession is testament to this, more and more we are faced with governments that are diverting resources from the struggling productive economy to non productive and destructive self serving endeavours of those who rule. This all leads to the spiraling cycles of boom, bust and war.

What is the alternative? Decentralised Democratic Anarchy (DDA)
To many at first this sounds like the sky will fall on our heads, but lets examine what it means; most will agree that democracy is a virtue, what then is decentralised democracy? Until recently only centralised democracy was possible, we needed some trusted central authority to establish what the consensus is, this led to government. With the emergence of crypto 2.0 we have for the first time in our history the ability to determine non centralised consensus, the requirement of government to achieve democracy is now redundant. I argue its now an impediment, If we look at the scale of global social integration via technology we find the the concepts of geographical borders and cultural ringfencing are primitive and only serve cartels. Given the abundance of humans across the planet and our impact, we have no choice but to embrace technology to solve the pending crisis that limited resources impose. Governments are no longer able to react appropriately or swiftly enough to alleviate or address challenges of democratically determining allocation priority or fair distribution. Their policies  tend suffer from retrospective dogmas that are completely alien to the newly evolving social needs of society or the planet.
 
Anarchy merely means without hierarchy, free of restrictions and does not by default mean chaos but rather, fractal evolution and not hierarchical evolution. It simply requires every individual to take responsibility for their actions and the world around them, far from being a terrifying prospect it is a liberating unifying principle and is the fundamental reality of the natural world. In nature everything operates individually yet with symbiotic codependency in fractal relationships, harmony is achieved when relationships are mutually beneficial. There are no imperfections in nature, imperfection exist only in the minds and action of humans .

So how can DDA be implemented then if not via a government, thanks to the work of Sitoshi it is possible. Democracy is unless if it has no financial support, without resources it is impossible to implement. This is why the occupy movement and many other well intentioned peaceful reactions to the shortfalls of government fail to make any meaningful impact despite often having the moral high ground. They are usually the most resource challenged.

Currently democracy is funded by taxes that are mandatory and implemented through force http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2624775/Tax-rise-unless-HMRC-raid-accounts-says-PM-David-Cameron-insists-taxman-given-new-powers-seize-money.html, the proceeds of which are then distributed by governments according to policies that benefit the cartels that support them.

The power of the SG Lottery is that participation is voluntary so if you dont think its healthy ignore it. Some would argue that if there were no taxes the world would come to a stand still, I would like to suggest the following will happen. Using Bitvote, SG will identify those aspects of society that have the greatest need, the fundamental reality of commerce is where there is the greatest need, there is the greatest opportunity. Merely by identifying this entrepreneurs will quickly step forward to address opportunities and create employment without the need for government. The lottery payouts will be portioned to the most highly user ranked  projects thus providing the skills and resources to address those issues.

What if people use their votes frivolously or abstain? The situation will deteriorate and the problems will escalate to a point where they will gain users due attention and will be voted on accordingly, hence the problems will get the necessary resources. Note all of this is achieved with no government or forced participation required and the added incentive of possible reward for participating. Furthermore factor in the additional availability of resources by not having a government and compound this with the efficiency of how fast this system will be able to identify and respond to needs, opportunities and resource allocation. Suddenly Decentralised Democratic Anarchy is not so scary after all. On the contrary it  is a purely voluntary self emerging ecosystem, so much so if left to its own devices it will grow and gradually make that which is inefficient redundant and empower that which is relevant all of this done passively without any threat of aggression. This process can run in parallel; with the current political structures and will ultimately make that what is not relevant redundant and that which is more efficient with no violence or revolution.  

So what about the “Important things” too important for the masses to delegate? Because we have hourly pools matters of extreme short term need will always have priority, long term Bitvote rankings still get addressed and those important issues like sustainability, space exploration, scientific and medical issues will continue to be funded. However they will always take a back seat to those issues of short term pressing need.

This is just a rough Idea and I’m sure with input from others it can be developed into both a fun and useful tool to test if Decentralised Democratic Anarchy is a realistic alternative. This will also hopefully bring great publicity to Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitvote DOUG, Dennys Lotto and any other technology it incorporates.  

"Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better." - Albert Einstein

A great wisdom:  - ``Universe is the aggregate of all humanity's consciously apprehended and communicated non simultaneous and only partially overlapping experiences. `` - Buckminster Fuller

Artificial Intelligence
Computer Science has evolved to the point where functions can be developed to describe any algorithm making it possible to model complex systems like weather forecasting etc. However this ability does not equate to Intelligence.

Definition: Intelligence has been defined in many different ways such as in terms of one's capacity for logic, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, learning, emotional knowledge, memory, planning,creativity and problem solving.
Intelligence is most widely studied in humans, but has also been observed in animals and in plants. Artificial intelligence is the simulation of intelligence in machines.
So how does artificial stack up? Lets compare humans to computers and networks



The Human Operating System
Is a self learning one

Our inputs are our 5 senses they transmit to the brain which either auto responds or the signals via the subconscious or the inputs get filtered via our emotions. Our emotions in turn influence our conscious reactions. Behind our emotions lies our Ego or self awareness which permits us to override our emotions and react with consideration. By applying the trivium method we are able to make educated choices.


The Computers Operating System
Is a hard coded
Although computer science has made massive advances in both software and hardware, they missing two key components that sets humans apart, the do not have emotions and are not self aware.

Networked Computers, with the advent of the internet we have seen the most astounding developments in both IT and social behaviour. Out of this, the meme of a singularity has captured the imagination of many.


Social Networks
are dynamic expressions of collective consciousness

We are now able to develop intelligent self evolving operating systems by integrating human emotions and awareness with the internet via social networks and the introduction of the distributed consensus blockchain. Through the use of IT and the integration of collective emotions we are now able to better determine a sustainable future for humanity free of sociopaths and psychopathic behaviour. The blockchain will remove the ability of the oppressors to write history.

“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”  -  George Orwell.  Viva! the blockchain Viva!, from the ashes rises the phoenix ;-)

Observations about human nature empathy, and sympathy. Empathy is the ability to mutually experience the thoughts, emotions, and direct experience of others. It goes beyond sympathy, which is a feeling of care and understanding for the suffering of others. Both words have similar usage but differ in their emotional meaning.

Interestingly studies on teenage delinquency reveal, two of the biggest influences on the development of empathy is the presence of a father figure and exposure to the natural environment.  

Similarly this is how the world operates on a macro scale, without real empathetic leadership we are doomed. A good father does not operate as our current world leaders do.  Our leaders have no respect for the environment or empathetic leadership qualities, on the contrary they operate like delinquentes. By integrating social consensus and allowing individual freedom, our cyber networks can help rectify the problem.
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace is brilliant documentary that shows what happens if we build a world with machines that are modelled on consumerism and greed, what this model lacked was the input of socially driven networks based on values. With the implementation of crypto technology we are able to develop socially driven networks that will not rule over us but serve us by implementing value through values.

A poignant excerpt from: Why Darwin is Wrong and Fractal Evolution by Alan Steinfeld

“By using the work of cellular biologist Bruce Lipton, former professor at Stanford University, I will show that the patterns of evolution are not created by chance.  They are based upon a fractal configuration of nature. Lipton and others, say that evolution is a two-step process going from the One to the Many.  This progresses in ongoing levels of development: from cell to multi-cellular organism and into social organizations.  
 
First Lipton defines evolution as “ the gaining of greater awareness.  At the most fundamental physical level of a single cell we can see that awareness is defined by a protein like protuberance coming off the membrane called a receptor site. Receptors like sense organs are interfaces between the outer and inner environments.  They survey the environment and feed information back to the rest of the cell.  It lets the organism know that if something is harmful- move away from it; or if something is beneficial -move towards it.  There is only one site for each stimulus in the environment and they can only exist in a single layer.  The more receptor sites the greater the awareness of the environment and the more survival is assured.  But there is a limit to the amount of receptor sites a cell can have, because if the membrane were to get too big it would rip open, the cytoplasm would pore out and the cell would die.”


Because currency is programmable,  I think in the future we will use game theory, incentivised empathy and fractal evolution as the engines to drive the development of social projects.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZK08ZYeeXUw8_eqwmETNbHuE0I08_EkyXwm-ZnEXpKs/edit?usp=sharing
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1010
he who has the gold makes the rules
I've been working on this all afternoon, and I'm reasonably close to done (though I might not get to finish until tomorrow). When I'm done, how should I submit my entry? Just post a github link here?

yea post it to GH i guess and put in your XCP/BTC address, then we just need someone like Adam to look at it and say the contract should operate and the donors will send the XCP your way.

it would be nice if we could actually test it on the bitcoin testnet but i have no idea if that is currently possible to do.  ideally that would be the best proof that it works.


You might want to add a little disclaimer to the code for people to only use it in places that allow private lotteries (like in the UK although there are restrictions and limitations).
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Hey all, this is Semiel from the Ethereum forums. I'm going to take a crack at the Powerball contract this afternoon. Can anyone point me to documentation about how XCP's smart contract implementation differs from Ethereum's? I know how to do it with Ether and the Ethereum blockchain, but I don't know what I need to do to make it work with XCP and the Bitcoin blockchain.

Welcome. Hopefully the following will point you in the right direction.

Introduction - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Counterparty#counterparty-contracts

GitHub - https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterpartyd/tree/develop/lib/messages/scriptlib

Support Centre - http://support.counterparty.io/support/solutions/articles/5000508883-when-will-serpent-be-supported-by-counterparty-

Counterparty Forum - https://forums.counterparty.io/discussion/845/how-do-i-write-a-smart-contract#latest

Since there appears to be little difference in how this works between Ethereum and Counterparty I'm sure if you get it working for Ethereum and pass it to one of the Counterparty Dev's to review you'll get the bounty.

The two contracts systems are/will be 100% compatible. Just write PoC-7 Sepent code.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
I've been working on this all afternoon, and I'm reasonably close to done (though I might not get to finish until tomorrow). When I'm done, how should I submit my entry? Just post a github link here?
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