Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 147. (Read 1276789 times)

I can't speak at all as to what should happen with Mastercoin. On the other hand, if projects with Mastercoin tokens (e.g. MAID and XAP) want to freeze their balances and re-create them on Counterparty, we can help walk them through that process.

Do you think you could contribute over in the thread? I think people would like very much to hear from a counterparty developer about what is possible.

We'd be glad to work with Maidsafe and Mastercoin to port Maidsafe over to Counterparty. (It wouldn't be at all hard to do. Notably, the two exchanges which handle MAID already also support Counterparty.)

I've put up a thread to talk about forking the Mastercoin Project:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9697453

The reason I mention it is that some of the ideas have included porting Mastercoin over to Counterparty, or finding a way to port Maidsafe tokens over to counterparty. For what Mastercoiners are left, we are tired of how the project is being handled and want change. We're not looking for a flame war those of us who are left know well enough what a mistake it was to turn down counterparty at the start and we aren't happy about it. We're looking for input on what to do next.

regarding xcp insider trading (delete it if it is nonsense)
being in xcp since its inception and following the project closely it was speculated since spring/summer that there is a connection between xcp and overstock which can be found here or also in the counterparty forum. i thought it was (poorly) priced in because the price was buttoning around april or something and on a low level rising since that point: what was a positive surprise was the scale to which overstock was using the protocol which let immediately buy more xcp after the announcement (I think this was true for a quite a lot of close followers). totally unexepcted was the announcement regarding "forking" ethereum which let to a second price explosion.

I do not think that there was major insider trading - the price rise as well as the incline now is given by the nature of most if not all cryptocurrencies - see risto pietilas post regarding that issue - a "pump" is not neccessarily an artificial behaviour of the market. it is simply the point where people do not want to sell anymore and a lot of people want to buy. the "over"selling now is given by the inverse function of that characterisation.

on a larger scale you see exactly that beviour with btc.

it's all about managing perception and expectations right?

i agree with this poster openness and honesty are always best, although done in a way that doesn't step on too many people's toes (i'm really good at that by the way if you haven't noticed, i'm available on a retainer basis if you need someone to crush some toes)

i can't believe the price fell so much i was able to get some very very cheap XCP....

sell it back to you guys at 0.05 or even 0.1

on another note if you are a developer or a graphics/UX designer, or some person that knows this ethereum smart contract stuff

if you want to brain storm some killer phone app for this... i frankly can't think of one but I want to help start some

simple, useful on a daily basis and easy though (no crazy if my tooth falls out the crypto fairy pays me some xcp type stuff please)

I think in the first place, wannabe stock trader experts need to take a step back and re evaluate the cryptocurrency market. People tend to compare bitcoin and other such things like a stock because of it's volatile nature and investment ability. They instantly start comparing them to stocks of real companies which are generating economic activity somewhere. With bitcoin we can sort of say that it has some value because there are in fact a few companys which are using bitcoin technology to generate such economic activity (like bitpay, coinbase etc..). But you have to ask yourself, are there really any multi million dollar or multi billion dollar companys that exist which are completely using bitcoin as it's infrastructure? No, not yet. The majority of the value of bitcoin is speculative based on what we believe will one day be built using it's technology.

This is the same thing with Counterparty except even more so. Name 1 forbes level successful company built on counterparty...I'll wait.  
The truth is whether xcp is currently worth a dollar or 20 dollars it doesn't matter because we can't truly start to rate XCP as a real asset until company's which are bult on counterparty start actually popping up...so for you so called trader experts comparing xcp to a stock, I won't say that's wrong, but keep in mind that at this point in time the entire Counterparty value sphere is speculative until things like Medici and such start to come about or until the already existing business' which are built on counterparty (Like SWARM and Koinify etc..) become highly net worth company's.

Also, maybe a button to press to invite friends to Counterparty/Counterwallet would be fun?

I think the more we can avoid the paranoia and trolling that affects other bitcoin related mb's the better. Insider trading to varying degrees is a fact of life in just about any asset. However, I personally haven't seen anything with Counterparty/XCP that is indicative of that. Maybe it happens but it is nothing near IMO the wild eyed conspiracy you seem to believe in. Maybe you just bought and sold at the wrong prices. Anyway, if it looks and smells like a troll... I'll stop feeding it...

So how about that rewards points idea and the functionality of the platform to be able to buy XCP directly with $. Anyone have thoughts on that?

Yeah, I am sure it will be very easy to bring new comers after that insider trading mess.

I love this project and I think its a shame you try to cover up what happened instead of just admit there was a problem and maybe try to prevent it in the future. the graphs are not lying.
I really like XCP (I had xcp for long long time) but because I am not a super-duper-mega-ultra trader - I can't afford my self keep playing in this game.
that's all, no hate no trolling. just my honest opinion.

edit: thank all for your comments on my original post, I read it all

I'm gonna be a hypocrite here and talk about the price despite myself. Anything with a market cap of $15 million or so will be inherently volatile. There is really nothing wrong with that until XCP and Counterparty grow much larger than it is now. If, hopefully XCP market capitalization (the value of all XCP) reaches say $150,000,000 or $50 an XCP (roughly a quarter the market cap of overstock) then maybe it might make sense to work on greater stability. I'm not a huge fan of volatility, but I think it probably draws in as many people as it turns off.

Let's revisit all this when XCP is at $50

I like how user friendly Counterparty and its asset creation function are for non-techies like myself in terms of the accessibility of the platform.

Hope this continues to be a priority for the devs. Here are some thoughts (thinking out loud):

Would be interesting to see a co. issue reward points on Counterparty. Is there something in the works to make the functionality of rewards points user friendly?

I also think once the kinks of buying XCP directly from the counter wallet are ironed out it will be more user friendly, and also when one can buy XCP and BTC directly by sending fiat like $ to the platform. The money transmitter thing must be a big issue, but I would stipulate that the upside to having Counterparty more functional by avoiding third parties may make it worth the hassle. 

Right now, having to obtain BTC and then use BTER to get XCP, then transfer to Counterwallet is probably too difficult for the mass of people who would benefit from accessing Counterparty-related assets like reward points...

Also, I would love to organize a Counterparty/XCP get together in LA... Please advise if anyone might be interested.

Regarding the recent XCP price drop, we want to start by saying that the Counterparty team has been silent on this because we do not engage in price speculation, as a policy. As others have noted, XCP is still a rather young, small and illiquid market, that is as of yet not trading on what most would consider a “major” exchange. Therefore, larger purchases and sales of XCP can and oftentimes do push the price up or down by quite a large amount.
 
Other markets, such as the physical gold market, and BTC (e.g. via Second Market, Coinfloor, etc)  oftentimes have OTC markets (i.e. off-exchange markets) where interested buyers and significant holders may advertise their desire to buy or sell larger lots, in a manner that does not directly affect the market price. We are in the process of working with certain industry partners to see if such an offering could be reality for XCP. If this materializes, it should hopefully help to stabilize the price, while making it possible for larger positions in XCP to be entered into or exited in a more controlled fashion.

The only benefit is to double check that your node is processing transactions like the others. Counterpartyd doesn't talk to other counterpartyd nodes so it's not that same level of benefit. It's good to have a node though. In the case a more visible node like Blockscan's goes rogue, you will be able to determine that for yourself and raise an alarm to the community.

I finally got around to installing counterpartyd  on my bitcoind node last night and this morning, counterpartyd database is caught up to the latest block.

Question:  Does running counterpartyd benefit the Counterparty network in a similar way as a full node bitcoind (mine has 47 connections atm) benefit the Bitcoin network?

Thanks.

I personally don't see a big amount of incentivation to squat on the former, even if a third party abstraction layer was to show up that will aid in cross-referencing those long numerical assets to translate as something a little more human-readable. It's not like there is anything there that would be coveted IMO. I do see cases where a user would spend what currently amounts to ~$2.50 to register a permanent blockchain-based asset. Hell, there's 100K .com registrations a day, priced at what's usually a minimum of 2-4x that (without offers) that you buy for 1 year period before expiry., I'd actually lean towards thinking $2.50 is a little on the low side for deterring spam or squatters if it wasn't for the fact this tech is in such a nascent stage, squatting on anything expecting a huge payoff one day is taking a gamble.

I think human-unreadable assets provide a low barrier to entry to users wishing to test out CounterParty & devs wishing to incorporate the technology into their creations who may not even wish to interface with XCP tokens. It's a great playground. Useful for smart contracts & the IOT,

An example use case where numerical assets would be preferred over non-numerical assets:  an OpenBazaar-like marketplace built on CounterParty, which leveraged an external DHT with CounterParty assets representing stock.
In the current incarnation it's infeasible to spend 0.5 XCP per alphabetical asset, for a multitude of reasons. yet it's not so far-fetched to imagine that you could manage a bunch of numerical assets with low overhead

Just like you would get if you appended those numbers onto http://www.ebay.com/itm/

Of course OpenBazaar is already pretty damn good, not suggesting anyone immediately try and recreate it utilising CounterParty but it's just one example, such an application although not explicitly requiring XCP would still benefit XCP (and BTC holders) alike, adoption even without a portion of the userbase touching XCP is a net positive, the more utility/ubiquity the CounterParty-injected Bitcoin blockchain has in this ecosystem the better.

you make the erroneous assumption that all market participants are merely speculators.  this is not the case.

The 'price' I mentioned is the current price in a shallow market with very limited liquidity and when counterparty is still in the early stage and not many assets exist yet. As I said before, the current price is just noise and whether the speculators gain or loss has nothing to do with the final success of counterparty.

true although the BTC fee might be a little over the top if there are 1 million holders.  would be interesting for someone to do a comparison calculator based on the current BTC parameters.

If someone makes this calc by the end of December 2014 I will give you 5 XCP (should be done using javascript/html5 so it could be put on a web page) - PM me if interested and I will take the time to write out the spec.

However, I do not think that you will see dividends develop in this way, because even BTC is still too volatile and many of these companies will have their own private currency (hopefully built on top of XCP - that was one of the points around Mastercoin was to allow companies/apps to manage their own currency). Given that what I believe will happen is that companies or dapps will pay out dividends using their native currency as it has some intrinsic value for the user.

We already seem to have a early example of this - as far as I understand it. GEMS  (the app) will collect XGEMs from advertisers in order to be able to show adverts, and GEMS will distribute XGEMs to their users who have ads turned on.  The user then can sell XGEMs for BTC or XCP (or whatever) back to advertisers. Although I do not know if they plan to do this in their internal database, if they will use the pay all function, or if it will be something else that is based on the number of ads someone watches.

aside from fees the big value add seems to be that the protocol is aware of the existence of the dividend payment and tying it back to the asset.  is there a way in which BTC payments can me marked so that the protocol recognizes that the payment of btc is attached to an XCP asset? i think that sort of functionality will be important down the road as financial analysis and automated trading programs hook into bitcoin/xcp markets.