Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 148. (Read 1276936 times)

you make the erroneous assumption that all market participants are merely speculators.  this is not the case.

The 'price' I mentioned is the current price in a shallow market with very limited liquidity and when counterparty is still in the early stage and not many assets exist yet. As I said before, the current price is just noise and whether the speculators gain or loss has nothing to do with the final success of counterparty.

true although the BTC fee might be a little over the top if there are 1 million holders.  would be interesting for someone to do a comparison calculator based on the current BTC parameters.

If someone makes this calc by the end of December 2014 I will give you 5 XCP (should be done using javascript/html5 so it could be put on a web page) - PM me if interested and I will take the time to write out the spec.

However, I do not think that you will see dividends develop in this way, because even BTC is still too volatile and many of these companies will have their own private currency (hopefully built on top of XCP - that was one of the points around Mastercoin was to allow companies/apps to manage their own currency). Given that what I believe will happen is that companies or dapps will pay out dividends using their native currency as it has some intrinsic value for the user.

We already seem to have a early example of this - as far as I understand it. GEMS  (the app) will collect XGEMs from advertisers in order to be able to show adverts, and GEMS will distribute XGEMs to their users who have ads turned on.  The user then can sell XGEMs for BTC or XCP (or whatever) back to advertisers. Although I do not know if they plan to do this in their internal database, if they will use the pay all function, or if it will be something else that is based on the number of ads someone watches.

aside from fees the big value add seems to be that the protocol is aware of the existence of the dividend payment and tying it back to the asset.  is there a way in which BTC payments can me marked so that the protocol recognizes that the payment of btc is attached to an XCP asset? i think that sort of functionality will be important down the road as financial analysis and automated trading programs hook into bitcoin/xcp markets.

If the dividends are paid in BTC, then there is no XCP dividend fee.

Here is a more thorough look at the utility of XCP:


See here for related discussion - https://forums.counterparty.io/discussion/701/xcp-price-speculation.

finally someone one this thread that has a bit of sense and knows what he is talking about

you can also add:

ave to pay fees for send all payments (aka dividends) in XCP, the more successful use of this function will drive up the price.  Adam will probably need to put in some kind of stabilizing algo so that the price to pay all will not become prohibitive.

and theoretically, although it is not applied in practice, holders of XCP should be voting on changes to the protocol.

so let me ask you folks.... say a major firm needs to pay a dividend to 1 million holders of its stock. do you think that firm would be thrilled that on the week of the dividend payment XCP price goes up 3X?

again I go back to Hayek and why mass adoption will flow to currencies that exhibit more stable growth characteristics.  and the dev's do have some control over PR because they pay Social Radius for that.

maybe i am too smart for this thread...

I think you need 0.5 XCP to create an asset
and probably some other operations which requires to burn XCP
so the price of XCP is suppose to be tied to the success of Counterparty
this is as far as i can understand about Counterparty, which is still not much

Could you please change those haha into something more meaningful? If I am wrong, please point out my mistakes. This thread is supposed to give people useful information rather than meaningless words.

hahahahhaahhahahahahahahaha

oh wait

hahahahahahahahhahahhaha

you have NO IDEA what you are talking about

Just some clarifications：
1 xcp is NOT a stock. It is NOT a share of counterparty. There's no IPO, and no money goes to the devs at all.
2 the price is completely created by the market (a very shallow one), and no one is responsible for it. It's just like BTC, and no dev or PR (do we have one for BTC?) should be responsible for the price.
3 therefore there's nothing wrong for someone to buy when he knows some good news or to sell when he knows something bad.
4 the success of counterparty has nothing to do with the price of xcp or how many people earn/lose money by speculating xcp. It soly depends on whether counterparty protocol is usable and useful.

don't worry my reduced confidence from one factor (the possible loss of a user and his network) is mitigated by many other factors.  now if it starts to happen on a more frequent basis I would have reason for greater concern.

i think you will find that the numeric palindromes and primes won't last long

or is the protocol assigning the number in sequential order? I tried the beta testnet wallet but it is telling me i need 0.5 xcp to create an asset

I respectfully disagree with you but I do hope you continue to be a supporter/investor of XCP...  Price (of XCP) is not the only reason for this project to succeed (or fail).  Execution is more important.  So many good things going for XCP...

Booms and busts happen in all markets and times.  Tulip mania.  dotcom stocks.  Real estate bubble.  There are big risks and big rewards in wild ups and downs.  If I want a stable (in price investment); I'd probably invest in a good company that pays a dividend such as MO (Altria group).

May I suggest a book to you (if you haven't already read it)?  Reminiscences of a Stock Operator (by Jesse Livermore).

It's a good read and discusses some of the things you mentioned (i.e. accumulation and distribution phase).  I'm a fundamentals type of investor, but some people like to study the charts to see when big price movements are going to happen.  Dennis Richard built a fortune utilizing Technical Analysis (charts)

I do not feel bad for you, since you appear to be fine with the situation, however others are not.  I feel content that you are content with your situation, though dismayed that you do not see the bigger picture.

I have however reduced confidence in this project succeeding when I see that a user is driven away because of practices that appear to create information asymmetries which favor people that have closer ties within a network (he called them "insiders" - don't confuse that with the SEC term).   Every user brings in a few friends, I know I did when I learned about this project. Practices which can be changed to smooth out the shock value of news so that it does not attract speculators and gives some cushion to new long term investors.

Price swigs that happen naturally due to profits/losses, performance of a thing are fine as they in theory should reflect the natural value of the thing, however when price swings occur due to how information is disseminated it is something which we have some control over and therefor it is something that warrants some critical thought to reduce unwarranted price shocks.

There are many ways to catch a fish... using TNT is just one method.

The issue is squatting, not SPAM, and only alphabetic names would ever be squatted on.

I'm one of the new guys.  I started buying when it was below .01    It dipped to .007 and lower and I was in the process of raising more BTC so I can purchase more XCP's. By the time I raised more BTC It was again .009 and on the way to breaking .01.  Kept buying as I got more BTC.  Kept buying more on the way up to .02 and some of my buys are above .02 and purchased some the past 2 days.  I keep buying until I get to my desired amount and then I'll hodl.

Please don't feel bad for me if I bought XCP for higher than the current price.  Each investor/speculator is responsible for their own actions.  I purchased ltc when it was around .002BTC.  I watched it go to .05BTC, but I didn't sell.  I sold all of my ltc right around .02BTC.

I don't know what you think the XCP community and developers can do about the wild price swings.  Bitcoin had them and still has them on occasions.  Stock Markets have them.  Company stocks have them as well.  Netflix went from over $300/share three years ago to about $50ish.  Look at where NFLX is now.  Apple AAPL, was almost bankrupt at one time.  Now it's worth almost as much as GOOGL and MSFT combined (and it was worth more than them combined from what I remember).  Apple did not go straight up.  Not even close.  Wild ups and downs.

Oh, you want to stop what you perceive as "insider trading"?  Then you want centralized regulated trading, like the US stock market where the SEC can prosecute criminals engaged in manipulation?     Where no such thing as unlimited printing of money (QE1, QE2, QE3) to bail-out the cowboys gambling with the world's financial system?  Because price manipulation of any market needs regulators to punish these very bad men and women.

is the limiting factor similar to the alphabetic convention? between 4 and 13 or 14 numbers?  meaning it max's out at about 100 Trillion assets.

i can totally see this being used for the internet of things type applications.

regarding the bitcoin only fee, wouldn't it make sense to depreciate the fee on the alphabetic asset names as well? or what is the rationale for having the latter if the former implies that spam control is handled by a bitcoin cost?

Asset IDs will never use large character sets, because of the possibilities of ambiguity and phishing (just as Bitcoin addresses use Base-58).That said, asset descriptions already have full support for UTF-8, which is where the real "asset names" should go.

Hopefully we will see support for double byte characters at some point in the future.

my posts, if you read them, are only tangentially related to price speculation.

developing something is more than just technical developments, how the market is approached and how new users are approached is just as important to "pioneering peer-to-peer finance" as no one will want to use a system which has such high volatility due to misinformed management of information flows as to make the system unstable for realizing the ability to transact p2p financial transactions.

BTW this is the official thread, there are no guidelines as to what it is for other than to discuss CounterParty.