Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 210. (Read 1276789 times)

Hey parker,

Some of the issues you're bringing up are being addressed currently. Specifically, a feature that automatically escrows your btc for a more seamless trading experience, without you staying logged in, is under development now. I think there is going to be an alternative to the twelve word passphrase soon also, but I could be misremembering that.

1. To advertise or broadcast your offer to buy or sell with BTC, Counterparty has to pay fees to the network. I think the same is true if you were to make an offer and then wanted to cancel it before the block expiration. You would need to pay to broadcast the cancelation. (Is this correct?)

2. Counterparty devs have made a number of decisions that are security-centric, both seen and unseen. The twelve word passphrase, for example, is incredibly secure. It helps prevent issues such as someone using the same password they use elsewhere or using a weak password in general. While annoying, the devs commitment to security, both for users and the protocol in general, is what generates real interest from parties like Overstock, Swarm, and other big value projects that will come along.

All your issues are valid, and everyone is happy for the feedback. Rest assured that development is speeding up if anything and that increased usability and a better user experience is a very high priority.

Regarding your hypothetical where Alice wants to send Bob 1 BTC for a couple "zips" that he had already delivered. It seems likely that a simple BTC payment from Counterwallet, Blockchain.info, Hive, or another BTC wallet will do just fine as in this particular case Alice and Bob don't require an escrow as she already has the "zips".

Thanks for all the helpful answers last night and this morning guys.

I think I might know what happened to the missing btc...I did not receive and of the shitcoin I was trying to buy but a minuscule amount of BTC has been removed from my balance, I think maybe it was fees I paid to the network. It prompted me to pay a fews for the miners which I obviously accepted.

I believe I paid the fees, but since my browser, or something, logged me out, the transaction was not able to process, but the fees already want to the miners. This happened twice.

This morning I am trying again and I will click on something in the counterparty wallet every few minutes which means only the most unreasonable piece of software would force log me out this time. I have no idea why whoever designed this protocol made it so you must stay logged in, but then the protocol automatically logs you out if you don't baby it.

Many of you have told me the btc trading is still fucked up, and that I should use the btc to buy counterparty, then send the counterparty to the wallet, and then buy the asset. So it's like 4 extra steps which my grandma would not understand or want to do, and at that point, why wouldn't I just make a purchase with the btc, on a different platform?

New questions - 1. Why would the protocol take fees from me without guaranteeing the transaction would occur, and more importably, 2. why do I need to stay logged in for an hour? Who cares if I am logged in or not? If I typed my 12 word seed in, I obviously authorized the transaction so how could me staying logged in possible be nessecary?

What would someone do if they were at work, and had a 30 minute lunch break and their laptop, and they want to send their buddy 1 btc for the 2 zips of weed he was fronted a few days ago? He logs in, sends the btc, or whatever asset they agreed on, then goes back to work in 20 minutes, now what?

Good to see this thread have come again more active and everyone who have skills help new users doing that. Anyone who want invest little amount of money for new project dont want read few hundreds page technical text to find answer.


Btw is that possible make game where choose card color, red or black and then can continue to double or not so long you want risk your winnings and can find someone to play with you? This also maybe working to Rock-Paper-Scissors, but two simple game allways better than only one.

As I advised the team before, this solution unfortunately does not work reliably on Windows (at least based on our own experience), due to random network issues with the underlying Boot2Docker VM.

Counterparty is the most quickly developed project in the entire 2.0 space and probably in the entire altcoin space. You don't have to threaten or otherwise encourage the devs to continue innovating and developing. An insanely talented and motivated development team is just part of the package when you're involved with Counterparty as a project. Tell them the issue, preferably by posting on Github, and I'm sure they will fix it as quickly as possible as they have exactly the same motivations as any XCP investor or Counterparty technology user.

I'm guessing Overstock prefers to stay quiet about its specific deliberations, we'll have to wait and see.

Well, crypto exchange rates are not necessarily known for making sense... Maybe it's all the things we don't know about... But here goes:

Development is progressing rapidly everywhere! And many XCP projects are making progress.
http://storj.io/
http://swarmcorp.com/
http://getgems.org/
http://betxcp.com/

(remind me of some other ones in case I'm forgetting something)

Also, Counterparty has implemented multi-sig on testnet, and once it reaches the mainnet, it will be a valuable feature for Blockchain-based companies, DAOs, escrows and security conscious individuals. (A multi-signature address is an address that is associated with more than one ECDSA private key. The simplest type is an m-of-n address - it is associated with n private keys, and sending bitcoins from this address requires signatures from at least m keys. A multi-signature transaction is one that sends funds from a multi-signature address.)

Any objective reason for the increase in xcp price atm?

How is the Overstock deal going so far?

I have found this on the thread. Any update ?

By the way, will it change the way to enter the account or wallet ? No more 12 words passwords ?

Letting people choose their own deterministic passwords didn't work out very well for NXT. I've seen at least 50 reports of people whose funds immediately vanished because they chose an insecure one. If you are really that concerned about your security, you can add an offline watch-only address and manually sign your transactions (within Counterwallet).


Citation?


I actually suggested something similar. But Counterparty does have trustless betting (rock paper scissors, rock paper scissors lizard spock).


Counterwallet is distributed across nodes and never handles any personal data. I could not think of a less 'centralized' web interface if I tried.

Good points but you'd need some numbers to really quantify the ability to crack such passwords. A major flaw is relying on their server software to generate the passwords in the first place and can't even generate your own passwords or truly control your own wallet as you mention in #2. We must either use their software which likely still has the major flaws pointed out much earlier in this thread or spend a few years learning to code your own version as they suggest. They didn't care about the third option, turning your back on XCP which people chose instead.

Unfortunately we're up against many true believers who blindly reject the idea of pushing the dev's to make counterparty better who have ignored or silenced the voice/s of reason asking for improvements.

The idea of allowing native counterparty gambling satoshi dice style was another million dollar idea they ignored afaik. They could relatively easily adapt the protocol similar to chancecoins first whitepaper to allow staking coins to back the house to get an average 1% return of all dice style bets that could be made natively by gamblers if the protocol was updated to allow it. Instead they focus on centralized betting feeds that rely on a single market maker to determine the outcome rather than starting with block difficulty/hash or some similar hardcodable feed. This and other ideas would have saved counterparty but the dev's killed the value instead by lowering the amount of XCP used for asset issuance by 90%, adopting bad advice such as implementing a centralized web wallet, and ignoring good advice such as those above and also the well explained idea of how to embrace the options style nature of btc<-->XCP/asset trades.

Ultimately it comes down to ability and willingness to generate useful code. Until we get real coders forking Counterparty in a useful way, we just won't see the value improve.

You're very welcome!

The password has to be really long, because the addresses and private keys are generated directly from the password itself. This is the only real way of ensuring that your password is never sent to any server outside of your own computer. Other websites and wallets have a different wallet system, which you are used to, because they store your password on a server and they have access to it. As we know from Mt.Gox, this is an extremely bad idea.

On the other hand, Counterwallet is deterministic and uses math to create your account without ever sending your personal information outside of your pc. Your passphrase IS your wallet. And to make it easier to login, Counterwallet now has funcionality where you can use a specially created URL and your own password to access your account. Press the gear at the top right to set this up.



Counterparty assets can be secured at a higher level than NXT or Bitshares, see the next point for an explanation. Also, if you want a local wallet, counterpartyd is available. This is a reference client that supports all functionality of Counterparty, and connects to Bitcoin Core. However, it is a command line interface and takes a while to set up, which may be confusing to non-technical users.

You can also run your own instance of Counterwallet. And while it is possible to do so now, there is development ongoing to make it easier.


Create an offline Bitcoin address, send XCP and assets to this address. Voila! Your XCP and assets are now as safe as cold storage Bitcoins. Just make sure you backup your private key securely.

Thanks for being so receptive !

1/ The 12 words password is the first hurdle. I can understand it because it is a web wallet, so the password must be really long. Anyway, I always read than lowercase dictionnary word without special character is crackable. I have no confidence in your password system I didn't see elsewhere, even in cryptoland -> big fail.
Anyway why did you choose a web wallet ?

2/ A windows wallet is a must have. Next and Bitshares X have it. For masses, you don't "own" your money if it is not "installed" on your computer and it is not different for having it on an exchange (I know it is wrong). Consequently, I won't invest much. It seems unsafe to have money here, I can't understand how to back up my money, I am sure I will receive one day a mail saying all is gone due to a hack -> big fail.

Even if I am a big burner, I didn't use the wallet until storj IPO, I don't know why but perhaps for the above reasons.

Can you list a few of these "10 points" that cause difficulty? I'd be more than glad to explain anything, or create any materials that may help the end-user. If only technical users raise awareness of issues, the focus is going to be entirely technical. It would be great to hear more from the community about how to make Counterwallet more friendly. And I'm sure that in time, other people will create wallets for XCP.

NOTE: It is important to remember people are having problems with the wallet program, and not the protocol itself. Counterwallet is just what you 'see', and has no direct effect on the functioning of Counterparty.

A user-friendly GUI, and an emphasis on UX (user experience) is the next step, and is actually a separate project that communicates with the protocol (Counterwallet<->Counterparty).


It is also the case that DRK represents anonymity, which is steadily being implemented into Bitcoin. Once enough 'anonymizing' services and wallets exist, it is not a surprise that DRK value will fall. Additionally, non-Bitcoin based coins and platforms understandably carry a lot of speculation and stigma. Proof-of-work and proof-of-stake clones often follow a pump&dump progression, and from a market perspective, establishing a causal link with any real attributes is often challenging.


No need for a simpler or friendlier clone, just various different wallets for different users. How a user interacts with the protocol requires absolutely no change in how it actually works behind the scenes.

Some, including me, are experimenting big bugs (funds disappear) with Bitshares X. Bitshares is one year old....
On the contrary I didn't have any trouble to buy StorJx in seconds. It is a fact that XCP has been very stable for months.

Anyway, Parker928 is the voice of 99% of the people which are not investing in XCP. Don't blame it !!!!

We all know that XCP can or will be worth 100 M$, then 1B$ as soon as and only if XCP is totally user-friendly, like almost everybody is requesting since beginning. It can be a matter of days with just a will. Perhaps a common list of 10 dumbest point that prevent people to use it confortably ? Are devs really aware of theses problems ? I don't see any amelioration coming in the current road-map, full of minor bugs and coding things I am not skilled enough to understand.

A product is never finished anyway, and investors won't wait "ad vitam eternam". Look how DRK is loosing its leadership in the anonymous race with extra-long developments and geeky features, like mixing rounds that only make people wonder how anonymous it is, and spreads doubt and uncertainty when using it.

The market is sincerely waiting for a simpler counterparty or else a more friendly clone will be created in no time.
I am sure that dogeparty or even clearinghouse won't do any coding but will have a perfect tool for dummies, and consequently for masses and then businesses !

You are complaining that an open-source software, being worked on by several full-time developers in an attempt to make it more user-friendly, is not user-friendly enough yet. What more can I offer you than patience? Think about it this way, if you shared this mentality in 2009-2010, you probably would not have bought any Bitcoin.

Anyone is welcome to contribute in whatever way they can, and want. But the criticism has to be constructive, in order to have any benefit whatsoever.

And the ones who are not literate?

You are making my point, for me.

Now it may be good to remember that Counterparty is open-source.

Furthermore, not to be disrespectful, but did you put this much pressure on Bitcoin devs in the first year of its existence? Just because its early stages of development were too 'nerdy'?  Please realize that you guys are screaming insults because of something that started significant development 4 months ago. (https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/counterwallet/graphs/contributors). That is hardly eternity.

And, more importantly, Counterparty is one of the projects that has a full-time dev team. And unlike pretty much every single other platform launch, Counterparty did not beg the community for money. Progress relies on the input of the community (you) and financial self-reliance. That's right, you're essentially getting this for 'free', and development is further along than many platforms which raised 1000+ BTC in funds.

First off, it is very very unlikely his issue with not being able to enter text into a text field is related to Counterwallet problems. Second of all, we don't know whether his 'missing' BTC are actually missing, have been matched in an order, or anything else. To fix these issues, more information is required.

If you guys are crypto literate and want things to get better, please submit detailed reports of your bugs. If you think this is frustrating, how do you think the developers must feel about vague descriptions of errors filled with ad hominems and curses. Any time I talk to them, they are busy with coding. Coding what? Counterparty.

Counterpartyd is stable and functioning well. Your anger towards a GUI which is under continuous, and incessant, development seems really unfounded. If you want to help, please document and submit your error reports, with as much detail as possible. Ranting really doesn't help anyone. Remember, no software can succeed without people to test it.

parker928's experience IS replicated over and over again, without doubt, and is the very reason i personally have been banging on about the client/protocol only being attractive to geeky users who get a kick out of understanding the back-end mechanics, OR, for a company/business to make use of and develop for their own ends.
Again, the technical nature of this excludes a huge demographic either by bamboozling them, boring them, or like me and parker928, completely frustrating them to the point of annoyance.

Again, again, the Devs (and patient others) will be answering people like parker928 for eternity, until the Devs mum and dad are able to make a simple trade without turning to their son/s for guidance.......you have asked your family to engage with the client, while you watch them, haven't you Devs??? 

I don't understand this part. You can type the passphrase using your keyboard, and you could even theoretically copy paste it if you're not that concerned with security. Additionally, there is a feature in the settings to set up a quick access URL which will take you directly to your wallet. If you can only enter it using the on-screen keyboard, there is probably something wrong with your browser.


I have not seen any reports of this happening. I'm sure the devs will look into it, but you must surely understand that it's not an end of the world scenario that affects every single user just because one individual is being logged out. Please issue a support ticket in Counterwallet if you haven't already.


Did you check your open orders? Maybe part of your order was matched. Have you checked whether money was transferred using block explorers Blockscan.com and Blockchain.info? For future reference, it's easier and less stressful to trade using XCP.


If you are relatively crypto literate, you could always use Counterpartyd (CLI), which is extremely reliable.

Hi parker928,

What OS and browser are you using? You are using the web site counterwallet.co right? On Windows with Chrome, I copy and paste my counterwallet password in one go from 1password.

Can you PM some details about the address you made the order from? I can have a look for you.