What do you think of setting up a new type of order using XCP that essentially lets anyone do a "kickstarter" style threshold-or-everyone-is-refunded asset sale order?
" I'm buying x TOKEN for y, but only once amount z is bought at the same time."
Those orders would accumulate and then excute all at once, as soon as the goal is reached. Optionally you could put a date your order expires, which is a personal "end of campaign" threshold for each person.
and it would only be possible with an XCP based instrument, so bitcoin would be out and XCP is suddenly the crowdfunding token because it can be escrowed
That would take all the trust off platforms like swarm and coinpowers, and be one of the first real uses of escrowing on the blockchain, and a damn good use for XCP - Bitcoin is the currency, and XCP is the crowdfunding/cryptofinance platform built on top.
Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 241. (Read 1276789 times)
June 30, 2014, 10:48:23 AM
June 30, 2014, 08:48:32 AM
Hello,
I'm trying to sign & broadcast a transaction made with coinsweeper in counterwallet but I got this error message in the signed transaction box :
Any clue of what I'm doing wrong ?
I'm trying to sign & broadcast a transaction made with coinsweeper in counterwallet but I got this error message in the signed transaction box :
Quote
Cannot read property 'call' of undefined
Any clue of what I'm doing wrong ?
June 30, 2014, 08:18:23 AM
I've been trying to learn about Counterparty.
I read https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Counterparty and found it seems to be quite a mess.
I don't know enough to fix most of the problems, so submitting a pull request doesn't seem ideal.
Where's a good place to point out the errors I found?
I read https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Counterparty and found it seems to be quite a mess.
I don't know enough to fix most of the problems, so submitting a pull request doesn't seem ideal.
Where's a good place to point out the errors I found?
Github I guess
June 30, 2014, 02:20:07 AM
Absolutely NOT on assuming XCP or BTC is the currency, simply because while Bitcoin and XCP are possibly reasonable stores of value, they are both horrible units of account because of the fixed demand-inelastic supply. What is a reasonable (something)/BTC trade this year is probably going to be a horrible trade next year. If your goal is to confuse new users and encourage them to make bad trades, calling BTC/XCP currency is a great way to do it.
I partially agree with you. I agree on that XCP and BTC are bad units of accounts. I'll also add that Counterparty is a platform where anyone can issue / invent a better currency, e.g. a trustworthy company can issue a counterparty-asset backed by the dollar. Then it's up to the free market (i.e. users of counterparty) to decide on their preferred choice of currency. At the moment XCP and BTC are the least worst, hence chosen by the market.
The problem with "inverse" prices, however, is merely a psychological one. In real life we buy a Snickers bar for price $2 at the supermarket, right? It's equally to correct to say that we sell dollars for price 0.5 Snicker at the supermarket... Next time you enter a store, tell the clerk you have some dollars you want to sell
In the Counterwallet I suggest just that when XCP or BTC are part of a trade, these will be assumed as currency (no change needed in Counterparty itself). There might be some more elegant way of dealing with the problem. E.g. by counting how many different token each token has been traded against. The higher count, the more likely it is to be the "currency".
June 30, 2014, 01:03:00 AM
I've been trying to learn about Counterparty.
I read https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Counterparty and found it seems to be quite a mess.
I don't know enough to fix most of the problems, so submitting a pull request doesn't seem ideal.
Where's a good place to point out the errors I found?
I read https://github.com/CounterpartyXCP/Counterparty and found it seems to be quite a mess.
I don't know enough to fix most of the problems, so submitting a pull request doesn't seem ideal.
Where's a good place to point out the errors I found?
June 29, 2014, 09:54:18 PM
The statement of what you are buying was very clear, but I would guess that at least 50% of people (the general public, not the type of people on this forum) never even get to that point because it is too confusing.
Maybe bad idea, but how if make two different view for different users what can choose from settings? One like now and one where you can see order book what looks like normal exchanges list where you can choose asset and see all next prices and maybe also choose max price what want pay and make then order?
June 29, 2014, 07:16:34 PM
I also agree it would be much easier if their was a more automated way for a company to sell an asset to the public, like a Buy Now button. It doesn't need to be as simple as using a credit card, it could just be a counterwallet.co address to send a certain amount of BTC to, or programming that uses an API to automated multiple steps.
This is also a very good idea. We should be able to implement this pretty easily, I think. (Through the 'extended asset info' standard.)
Thanks everyone for the feedback, by the way. It's very helpful. We'll look into inverting the prices, too, in case that could help.
Yes. Something like a "Pre-BTCPay" to go ahead and send the BTC at the same time that the buy order is placed, when there is a very good probability that it will match an existing sell order. Maybe this should come with a warning (or only be able to do it when sending BTC directly to asset issuers) but the potential loss of security makes up for a big gain in functionality. Especially in these early days when we are all sending .01BTC to buy random assets just for the hell of it and to try to get the economy going.
Of course, the flipside is that maybe it *should* be hard to buy assets in BTC in order to drive up XCP usage and value.
Or maybe some sort of BTC-to-XCP-to-Asset purchasing, where assets are required to be natively denominated in XCP but are automatically and indirectly priced in BTC through the DEX, when the buyer wishes to purchase in BTC? And somebody(ies) with deep pockets and some good exchange bots acts as market maker in the BTC/XCP DEX?
June 29, 2014, 05:30:46 PM
Really great to see all this feedback. Awesome.
Agreed.
June 29, 2014, 05:27:18 PM
Really great to see all this feedback. Awesome.
June 29, 2014, 05:10:06 PM
I wrote earlier about how difficult it was for me to buy an asset (JPJA) using Counterparty (via counterwallet.co). First, it was very confusing just to figure out how to actually place an order, then it was confusing to figure out the quantity/price I was supposed to pay (it told me it could not automatically quote an exact price for me)
I had the same confusing experience. It seems to me that technically the exchange works well (at least when BTC is not involved) and all information is logically correct. But I believe confusion appears because the prices are displayed inversely to how we intuitively see them. If I for example want to buy SWARMPRE for XCP, the confusion starts on the second page. Where it says "Buying XCP" I think it is more user friendly to write "Selling SWARMPRE" although these two statements are equivalent. And where the unit price "21.5 SWARMPRE/XCP" it would be better with "0.0465 XCP/SWARMPRE".
Where it says "Selling XCP" it should say "Buying SWARMPRE" at price 0.0462. Now you see that the highest buy offer is a little bit below the lowest ask (sales offer), just as we are used to from financial markets.
Since Counterparty enables barter, it will not always be obvious which asset is the currency, e.g. is it better to write 2 apples/orange or 0.5 orange/apple? For Counterwallet, however, I am of the opinion that in transactions involving XCP or BTC these should always be used as the currency.
YES on confusing
This is horribly confusing. Is there a way to do some sort of fractional notation? 21.5/5.0 SWARMPRE/XCP
Absolutely NOT on assuming XCP or BTC is the currency, simply because while Bitcoin and XCP are possibly reasonable stores of value, they are both horrible units of account because of the fixed demand-inelastic supply. What is a reasonable (something)/BTC trade this year is probably going to be a horrible trade next year. If your goal is to confuse new users and encourage them to make bad trades, calling BTC/XCP currency is a great way to do it.
But if you actually want real value growth of the trade economy, it has to be a reference unit of account that has properties more like Hayek money with some better price stability properties.
June 29, 2014, 03:56:41 PM
The statement of what you are buying was very clear, but I would guess that at least 50% of people (the general public, not the type of people on this forum) never even get to that point because it is too confusing.
June 29, 2014, 03:38:41 PM
I wrote earlier about how difficult it was for me to buy an asset (JPJA) using Counterparty (via counterwallet.co). First, it was very confusing just to figure out how to actually place an order, then it was confusing to figure out the quantity/price I was supposed to pay (it told me it could not automatically quote an exact price for me)
I had the same confusing experience. It seems to me that technically the exchange works well (at least when BTC is not involved) and all information is logically correct. But I believe confusion appears because the prices are displayed inversely to how we intuitively see them. If I for example want to buy SWARMPRE for XCP, the confusion starts on the second page. Where it says "Buying XCP" I think it is more user friendly to write "Selling SWARMPRE" although these two statements are equivalent. And where the unit price "21.5 SWARMPRE/XCP" it would be better with "0.0465 XCP/SWARMPRE".
Where it says "Selling XCP" it should say "Buying SWARMPRE" at price 0.0462. Now you see that the highest buy offer is a little bit below the lowest ask (sales offer), just as we are used to from financial markets.
Since Counterparty enables barter, it will not always be obvious which asset is the currency, e.g. is it better to write 2 apples/orange or 0.5 orange/apple? For Counterwallet, however, I am of the opinion that in transactions involving XCP or BTC these should always be used as the currency.
I totally agree with this post!
June 29, 2014, 03:22:59 PM
I also agree it would be much easier if their was a more automated way for a company to sell an asset to the public, like a Buy Now button. It doesn't need to be as simple as using a credit card, it could just be a counterwallet.co address to send a certain amount of BTC to, or programming that uses an API to automated multiple steps.
This is also a very good idea. We should be able to implement this pretty easily, I think. (Through the 'extended asset info' standard.)
Thanks everyone for the feedback, by the way. It's very helpful. We'll look into inverting the prices, too, in case that could help.
June 29, 2014, 03:04:12 PM
I agree and I feel I may have to switch exchanges due to people saying they can not use the system or know how. I have had people message me asking me about the system, I have no clue how to use it beyond what I have been showed in a video.
June 29, 2014, 03:01:29 PM
I agree with hozer, that showing the value in USD would be a big help. I am not experienced in Bitcoin enough to be able to see a USD value in my head when I see a BTC amount (like .000236 BTC). Those small BTC amounts are almost meaningless to me unless it is something easy like .10 BTC or .50 BTC, and even then the BTC price constantly changes so I just know a ballpark estimate.
Agree. though in my case I select EUR. I use this option on all wallets where available. I also use mBTC rather than BTC.
June 29, 2014, 02:52:35 PM
Jpja - I have traded stocks for 30 years (the past 5 years online) and also done some crytocurrency trading (via Cryptsy) and I was still totally confused by the way the order book is presented at counterwallet.co due to the inverse way the prices are presented.
June 29, 2014, 02:49:10 PM
I agree with hozer, that showing the value in USD would be a big help. I am not experienced in Bitcoin enough to be able to see a USD value in my head when I see a BTC amount (like .000236 BTC). Those small BTC amounts are almost meaningless to me unless it is something easy like .10 BTC or .50 BTC, and even then the BTC price constantly changes so I just know a ballpark estimate.
I also agree it would be much easier if their was a more automated way for a company to sell an asset to the public, like a Buy Now button. It doesn't need to be as simple as using a credit card, it could just be a counterwallet.co address to send a certain amount of BTC to, or programming that uses an API to automated multiple steps.
Also, unrelated to that, buying the Soybeans (http://www.7el.us/crypto-commodities.html) asset seems very similar to buying a Soybeans future on the commodity exchange. While I am not sure if there are any legal issues in pre-selling a commodity, it would seem that the fact that it is meant to be traded on an "exchange" makes it a security like Soybean futures (listed on the Chicago Board of Trade), and that would be subject to SEC regulation. See info about the SEC crackdown on this at
https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange-general/legality-of-assetexchange-offerings/msg35025/#msg35025 . Other than that potential issue, it seems like a great idea.
- Eric
I also agree it would be much easier if their was a more automated way for a company to sell an asset to the public, like a Buy Now button. It doesn't need to be as simple as using a credit card, it could just be a counterwallet.co address to send a certain amount of BTC to, or programming that uses an API to automated multiple steps.
Also, unrelated to that, buying the Soybeans (http://www.7el.us/crypto-commodities.html) asset seems very similar to buying a Soybeans future on the commodity exchange. While I am not sure if there are any legal issues in pre-selling a commodity, it would seem that the fact that it is meant to be traded on an "exchange" makes it a security like Soybean futures (listed on the Chicago Board of Trade), and that would be subject to SEC regulation. See info about the SEC crackdown on this at
https://nxtforum.org/asset-exchange-general/legality-of-assetexchange-offerings/msg35025/#msg35025 . Other than that potential issue, it seems like a great idea.
- Eric
June 29, 2014, 02:40:33 PM
I wrote earlier about how difficult it was for me to buy an asset (JPJA) using Counterparty (via counterwallet.co). First, it was very confusing just to figure out how to actually place an order, then it was confusing to figure out the quantity/price I was supposed to pay (it told me it could not automatically quote an exact price for me)
I had the same confusing experience. It seems to me that technically the exchange works well (at least when BTC is not involved) and all information is logically correct. But I believe confusion appears because the prices are displayed inversely to how we intuitively see them. If I for example want to buy SWARMPRE for XCP, the confusion starts on the second page. Where it says "Buying XCP" I think it is more user friendly to write "Selling SWARMPRE" although these two statements are equivalent. And where the unit price "21.5 SWARMPRE/XCP" it would be better with "0.0465 XCP/SWARMPRE".
Where it says "Selling XCP" it should say "Buying SWARMPRE" at price 0.0462. Now you see that the highest buy offer is a little bit below the lowest ask (sales offer), just as we are used to from financial markets.
Since Counterparty enables barter, it will not always be obvious which asset is the currency, e.g. is it better to write 2 apples/orange or 0.5 orange/apple? For Counterwallet, however, I am of the opinion that in transactions involving XCP or BTC these should always be used as the currency.
June 29, 2014, 01:58:12 PM
Oh. I would have been fine with that. I was just trying to test out the system.
Edit: But it seems I got charged all the same fees anyhow. Maybe you should add a note somewhere about how fees are still charged even if the transaction is cancelled.
Edit: But it seems I got charged all the same fees anyhow. Maybe you should add a note somewhere about how fees are still charged even if the transaction is cancelled.
That's a good idea. Will do.
Is there a data feed that could be used (say coinbase's BTC buy/sell price) to show the fees and price of assets in dollars? Otherwise I have to go converting dollars to btc and then to the asset I'm selling/buying.
This would also be an opportunity for someone who wants to deal with FINCEN to provide such a thing as a service. I want to be able to tell people who want to buy soybeans to go to a money transmitter/payment processor site that runs a counterwallet and 'buy now' with a credit card. (coinbase/cryptsy/start-ups are you listening??)
June 29, 2014, 01:07:19 PM
Oh. I would have been fine with that. I was just trying to test out the system.
Edit: But it seems I got charged all the same fees anyhow. Maybe you should add a note somewhere about how fees are still charged even if the transaction is cancelled.
Edit: But it seems I got charged all the same fees anyhow. Maybe you should add a note somewhere about how fees are still charged even if the transaction is cancelled.
That's a good idea. Will do.
Jump to: