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Topic: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty - Pioneering Peer-to-Peer Finance - Official Thread - page 389. (Read 1277011 times)

newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Can't wait to get all Web wallety.

Will the web wallet affect the XCP price in positive way?

At first probably not, lots of dumping but then longer term near certainly. I think most would agree.

Why not a minimum XCP balance, say 1 XCP, be imposed on web wallet to support XCP price?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
Can't wait to get all Web wallety.

Will the web wallet affect the XCP price in positive way?

At first probably not, lots of dumping but then longer term near certainly. I think most would agree.
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
Can't wait to get all Web wallety.

Will the web wallet affect the XCP price in positive way?
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
Can't wait to get all Web wallety.
legendary
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
I don't think the fee should be destroyed. It would be a much better idea to pay it to Bitcoin miners or XCP holders. No? Maybe I don't understand it well enough.

But yeah 5 xcp seems a bit much.

Destroying the fee is paying it to XCP holders.


Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto - June 21, 2010
"Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone."

PS: I'd say 1 XCP for new assets. I like round & prime numbers. I'm afraid to see a wave a spam issuances like COKE/CRACK/METH/DILDO/FRENCHGIRL coming from the same guy if you lower it too much...


I am of the same view as well. We need to reduce the fees to encourage businesses, however at the same time not lower it too much that there will be spam issuances and asset squatting. Which will stand in the way of legitimate businesses and users.
1 XCP seems about right (Nxt has an issuance fee of 1000 Nxt).

+1. I agree that 1 XCP seems a reasonable issuance cost. If you drop it lower than that I think it's very likely it'll need to be increased to reduce the clutter.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
I really don't think 5 XCP is a big price to a serious issuance now. the problem is just that it is burnt. However, even there will be 10k assets, 50k XCP is still a small part of 2.6M. Moreover, the fee can be reduced later when XCP appreciate a lot.

Please don't low the fee too much and otherwise there will be a lot of rubbish asset names.

True, 5 XCP isn't painful, and I don't even think the burning is a problem -- with fees to be determined by PoS, there should be an ever-decreasing fee schedule along with the decreasing available supply.

What's missing in that approach is the flexibility of claiming an asset. Imagine a company being liquidated, its XCP holdings one of the assets freed when the shares are called back. In bankruptcy that could be used to cover debts. Alternatively, locking the starting funds could allow a business to transition from shareholder-owned to employee-owned.

Assume a sizeable amount of startup funds are used as the asset creation fee. With those funds locked up, the business has to either acquire additional funding or perform to build itself up. As the business grows, it can start to buy back shares and either call back outstanding issues to free up locked funds, or employees of the business can obtain those shares and opt to call them back as needed. This would be much like a retirement fund.

Insurance funds can be similarly structured such that each policy issued has funds locked and instantaneously auditable. None of these potentials would be realistic with burning as a means of asset issuance.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1000
 I really don't think 5 XCP is a big price to a serious issuance now. the problem is just that it is burnt. However, even there will be 10k assets, 50k XCP is still a small part of 2.6M. Moreover, the fee can be reduced later when XCP appreciate a lot.

Please don't low the fee too much and otherwise there will be a lot of rubbish asset names.
legendary
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1005
I don't think the fee should be destroyed. It would be a much better idea to pay it to Bitcoin miners or XCP holders. No? Maybe I don't understand it well enough.

But yeah 5 xcp seems a bit much.

Destroying the fee is paying it to XCP holders.

Destroying the fee reduces unit availability, which isn't necessarily an issue if the destruction process will last longer than the system's usefulness. However, I think a better option would be to simply lock the fee (unless called back). Creating an uncallable asset would essentially be burning.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
In the past, thieves have taken great ideas, claimed them as their own and rewrote history. No matter how brilliant Counterpary is (and I believe it is very) it is naive to think it will speak for itself.
full member
Activity: 202
Merit: 100
Quote
SpainCoin   $ 24,429,096   $ 0.96   25,323,976 SPA   $ 372,240   -67.76 %   
Counterparty   $ 12,576,285   $ 4.75   2,648,641 XCP*   $ 21,508

Depressing. spaincoin, really?... how can such a blatant shitcoin copy of what was a shitty gimmick in the first place eclipse trading volume and market cap of of a revolutionary and innovate protocol such as xcp. These ADHD altcoin markets are disgusting.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
bitwhizz and halfcab123: could you tell us what you're planning for the video?

I'll have the story board done by Wednesday and should have a Teaser by Monday
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
bitwhizz and halfcab123: could you tell us what you're planning for the video?
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
Digitizing Valuable Hard Assets with Crypto
200% markup?  That's going to leave alot of room for competition. . . Gold and silver online sells the physical item for half price in dollars. Do you plan on syncing the fiat equivalent in your bitcoin pricing?  If this has already been answered, I apologize.

I'm sorry halfcalb123, are you referring to our Two 1 ozt Credit Suisse Gold .9999 Fine (In Assay) Digital Coins for BTC 4.3 or $2,672.00?

That item is for 2 Gold Bars at $1,367.00 per ounce at today's spot or $2,734.00. I think the advertised price is possibly $62.00 cheaper than today's gold price.

Did I err in my understanding of your post?

member
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
Digitizing Valuable Hard Assets with Crypto
Actually Phantom a small correction:

We need full flexibility to issue 1 new Asset name for each Silver/Gold/Whatever physical asset if needs arise from our customers either at issuance or redemption.

Of course you'll have the ability to do that. But I think that there will be downsides in usability. (For instance, it will be harder to trade them on the distributed exchange if a price cannot be established. If all of the silver coins are the same, then they should be priced the same.)

Excellent point. We're in new territory here, but we aim to simply be a decentralized digitizing platform/marketplace for our clients. We take the Craigslist/eBay approach to listings. Customers control the price they wish to trade on the DEX, but it will be buyers to determine what price is fair. We do not aim to centralize gold/silver prices.

Maybe this is a great opportunity for a Counterparty community member to start pricing out Gold and Silver feeds for Spot?
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
Actually Phantom a small correction:

We need full flexibility to issue 1 new Asset name for each Silver/Gold/Whatever physical asset if needs arise from our customers either at issuance or redemption.

Of course you'll have the ability to do that. But I think that there will be downsides in usability. (For instance, it will be harder to trade them on the distributed exchange if a price cannot be established. If all of the silver coins are the same, then they should be priced the same.)
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
CabTrader v2 | crypto-folio.com
200% markup?  That's going to leave alot of room for competition. . . Gold and silver online sells the physical item for half price in dollars. Do you plan on syncing the fiat equivalent in your bitcoin pricing?  If this has already been answered, I apologize.
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
Digitizing Valuable Hard Assets with Crypto

Bitcoin Tangible Trust, if you want to issue an asset for a fully-redeemable silver coin that costs you, say, $20 to buy and put into custody?  How does a 5 XCP asset issuance fee effect the end price that you need to charge a customer to buy this silver coin?  

EDIT:  OK, I just did the math.  5 XCP = $32 @ 0.01 BTC/XCP and $640 BTC/USD.  So, basically at 5 XCP issuance fee you would need to charge $52 for a silver coin that otherwise could be purchased from a coin dealer for $20.  So, yes, from my basic analysis, this seems like a blockage, at least for BTT's business model anyways.

EDIT: Porqupine, maybe you see / understand something that I am missing?  Can you please elaborate?  Interested to better understand your perspective, as you always have such good postings on this list.



The asset issuance fee is a one time fee - you can issue Silvercoin quantity=100 or =1000 or however many you like.

Correct. You should definitely not issue a new asset for each silver coin.

Actually Phantom a small correction:

We need full flexibility to issue 1 new Asset name for each Silver/Gold/Whatever physical asset if needs arise from our customers either at issuance or redemption.

At BitcoinTangible Trust, we have absolutely ZERO interest in vanity names as our business model intends to globally scale to millions of coins. If you check our asset listing you can view them here: http://bitcointangibletrust.com/assets/ you will notice we have a naming convention that allows us to create catalog-driven names that are unique to our business.  Name squatting is of little worry for us as our namespace is large. However, we are grateful to receive relief from asset issuance costs.

sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder

Bitcoin Tangible Trust, if you want to issue an asset for a fully-redeemable silver coin that costs you, say, $20 to buy and put into custody?  How does a 5 XCP asset issuance fee effect the end price that you need to charge a customer to buy this silver coin?  

EDIT:  OK, I just did the math.  5 XCP = $32 @ 0.01 BTC/XCP and $640 BTC/USD.  So, basically at 5 XCP issuance fee you would need to charge $52 for a silver coin that otherwise could be purchased from a coin dealer for $20.  So, yes, from my basic analysis, this seems like a blockage, at least for BTT's business model anyways.

EDIT: Porqupine, maybe you see / understand something that I am missing?  Can you please elaborate?  Interested to better understand your perspective, as you always have such good postings on this list.



The asset issuance fee is a one time fee - you can issue Silvercoin quantity=100 or =1000 or however many you like.

Correct. You should definitely not issue a new asset for each silver coin.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 300
Counterparty Chief Scientist and Co-Founder
I don't think the fee should be destroyed. It would be a much better idea to pay it to Bitcoin miners or XCP holders. No? Maybe I don't understand it well enough.

But yeah 5 xcp seems a bit much.

Destroying the fee is paying it to XCP holders.


Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto - June 21, 2010
"Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone."

PS: I'd say 1 XCP for new assets. I like round & prime numbers. I'm afraid to see a wave a spam issuances like COKE/CRACK/METH/DILDO/FRENCHGIRL coming from the same guy if you lower it too much...


I am of the same view as well. We need to reduce the fees to encourage businesses, however at the same time not lower it too much that there will be spam issuances and asset squatting. Which will stand in the way of legitimate businesses and users.
1 XCP seems about right (Nxt has an issuance fee of 1000 Nxt).

People go through the day speaking an average of maybe 2000 english words - at 1 XCP per asset it is far too little, even 5 is too little.
It should be the like of 50 or 100 IMO. And the line about being in the way of legitimate businesses is pure bogus - there is no legitimate business that cannot afford 100 xcp.

Think of asset names like domain names: squatting isn't too big of a deal.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
I don't think the fee should be destroyed. It would be a much better idea to pay it to Bitcoin miners or XCP holders. No? Maybe I don't understand it well enough.

But yeah 5 xcp seems a bit much.

Destroying the fee is paying it to XCP holders.


Quote from: Satoshi Nakamoto - June 21, 2010
"Lost coins only make everyone else’s coins worth slightly more. Think of it as a donation to everyone."

PS: I'd say 1 XCP for new assets. I like round & prime numbers. I'm afraid to see a wave a spam issuances like COKE/CRACK/METH/DILDO/FRENCHGIRL coming from the same guy if you lower it too much...




I am of the same view as well. We need to reduce the fees to encourage businesses, however at the same time not lower it too much that there will be spam issuances and asset squatting. Which will stand in the way of legitimate businesses and users.
1 XCP seems about right (Nxt has an issuance fee of 1000 Nxt).

People go through the day speaking an average of maybe 2000 english words - at 1 XCP per asset it is far too little, even 5 is too little.
It should be the like of 50 or 100 IMO. And the line about being in the way of legitimate businesses is pure bogus - there is no legitimate business that cannot afford 100 xcp.

Bitcoin Tangible Trust, if you want to issue an asset for a fully-redeemable silver coin that costs you, say, $20 to buy and put into custody?  How does a 5 XCP asset issuance fee effect the end price that you need to charge a customer to buy this silver coin?  

EDIT:  OK, I just did the math.  5 XCP = $32 @ 0.01 BTC/XCP and $640 BTC/USD.  So, basically at 5 XCP issuance fee you would need to charge $52 for a silver coin that otherwise could be purchased from a coin dealer for $20.  So, yes, from my basic analysis, this seems like a blockage, at least for BTT's business model anyways.

EDIT: Porqupine, maybe you see / understand something that I am missing?  Can you please elaborate?  Interested to better understand your perspective, as you always have such good postings on this list.



The asset issuance fee is a one time fee - you can issue Silvercoin quantity=100 or =1000 or however many you like.
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