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Topic: [ANN][YAC] YACoin ongoing development - page 76. (Read 379983 times)

sr. member
Activity: 251
Merit: 250
A Year has passed as YACoin was released on 8th of May 2013 introducing the new concepts to the world.
Many blocks have been generated since then Wink)

I believe YAC is stronger than any other coin because it has creative development team and community!

So long live YAC and Happy Birthday!!

Congrats go to block 542668 (a POS block) for being the lowest numbered block with a chainage of 365 days.

Congrats indeed! So 1 year in how is everyone feeling today?
hero member
Activity: 693
Merit: 500
A Year has passed as YACoin was released on 8th of May 2013 introducing the new concepts to the world.
Many blocks have been generated since then Wink)

I believe YAC is stronger than any other coin because it has creative development team and community!

So long live YAC and Happy Birthday!!

Congrats go to block 542668 (a POS block) for being the lowest numbered block with a chainage of 365 days.
sr. member
Activity: 288
Merit: 260
A Year has passed as YACoin was released on 8th of May 2013 introducing the new concepts to the world.
Many blocks have been generated since then Wink)

I believe YAC is stronger than any other coin because it has creative development team and community!

So long live YAC and Happy Birthday!!
hero member
Activity: 516
Merit: 500
CAT.EX Exchange
some GREAT news: with the server interface enhancements i've made it should be possible to PoS mine directly from a thin electrum client

Very interesting. Does it centralize the control of POS mining on the server, though?

However, I think of it like the PoW mining pools we have today - with a bunch of electrum servers, you can choose your "PoS pool" (it can be automated) and just trust that it doesn't tell you bullshit (you just validate the chain work and txs of interest, and the standard electrum client already does that).

That would be what worries me. Because of real or perceived advantage to mining in large POW pools, a few big pools are the dominant roles to approve transactions. The wallet server could acquire great powers to approve new POS blocks. That is centralization.
That said, I think for the same reason why POW pools are successful, POS pools will prevail, too.  A thin wallet backed up by a POS pool is just natural for the end user. Your idea, if validated, is more attractive than POS pools that requires the user to hand over their coins to the pool.
newbie
Activity: 20
Merit: 0
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
One does not simply mine Bitcoins
some GREAT news: with the server interface enhancements i've made it should be possible to PoS mine directly from a thin electrum client

Very interesting. Does it centralize the control of POS mining on the server, though?

TL;DR: no

The long answer:
I don't think so. Server can't lie to you about blocks (it's computationally infeasible, similar to 51% attack). You as a client can always verify the transactions provided by electrum server by following their history back to the coinbase transaction (though a simple electrum wallet does not do this, it just blindly trusts the server, which is ok for just a wallet - but to generate a block AND have it accepted by the network, you need to be 100% sure). Transaction hashes from a block are connected to the block's hash through the merkle tree hash, so you can verify that the list of txs provided by the server really belongs to a given block ('cause a block "can't" be faked).

(This would kinda require you as a client to keep a few full blocks somewhere for quick reference as it's impractical do re-download the same block over and over again while verifying a single tx's history. Potentially, the client can have a trusted checkpoint hardcoded and not check history before that, which would speed things up even more.)

So, if the server can't fool you into something that's wrong, it could try simply denying service to you - ie. pretending that the current network block height is just 123 while the real network is already on block 500. The solution for this is also quite simple from the client's perspective - just do a little of p2p communication with a few random peers (provided by eg. dnsseed server, or from its own cache or something) and just asking them for the number of blocks they've got (quite simple). And if the server has a lower height than the random peers agree on (needs filtering as even a peer can send you a bad number), then either it's stuck on a bad fork, lagging or lying - either way, a bad idea to use that server for PoS mining. Smiley

As for the lagging problem, the possibility that the PoS blocks you mine will be orphaned is somewhat higher than if mining with a full node - tho it's not as bad a problem for PoS, really - you can simply reuse the coinstake (ie. try again) a few times within a certain time period (and also, it's not like you don't have whole 2 months of time to collect your interest).

However, I think of it like the PoW mining pools we have today - with a bunch of electrum servers, you can choose your "PoS pool" (it can be automated) and just trust that it doesn't tell you bullshit (you just validate the chain work and txs of interest, and the standard electrum client already does that). This saves you as a client a lot of work, you don't have to connect to p2p nodes (which can even be impossible from the internet connection you're on - electrum was designed to also work over heavily restricted connections by utilizing eg. the http port 80 for its protocol and most firewalls allow at least that). You can also check with other servers whether your PoS block has gone through the network successfully. Or even utilize more than one server at a time, whatever.

Although the server does not seem to have an incetive for you to PoS mine, it's not quite true. It can either choose to serve you a lil' bit of valid data OR a thousand times more data for you to verify everything yourself (which costs the owner of that server performance and bandwidth). Even if someone didn't care about the costs and tried to fool you anyway, you wouldn't really be harmed (you can always earn your interest later via another server or even a full node if all the servers were bad for some reason). So a bad provider can't make you lose anything while he loses substantially more resources than by playing fair.

As far as your question goes, centralization of PoS mining would IMHO be something like one server with a big wallet (like a bank) where a lot of users send their money to accumulate interest. While the electrum server has absolutely zero control over your funds/interest and you can always effortlessly switch to another server for whatever reason.

whew
hero member
Activity: 516
Merit: 500
CAT.EX Exchange
some GREAT news: with the server interface enhancements i've made it should be possible to PoS mine directly from a thin electrum client

Very interesting. Does it centralize the control of POS mining on the server, though?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
Wow!!!

"PoS mine directly from a thin electrum client"

That sounds super awesome :p
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
One does not simply mine Bitcoins
just FYI - we now have dns seed code available for yacoin. however, i can't run the server myself on the same VPS block explorer is running (amazon won't let me access the dns port from outside for some reason even though i enabled it in all firewalls). so, if anyone has the resources to do it here's the link https://github.com/saironiq/yacoin-seeder. you don't need anything fancy, really - just access to your domain's authoritative NS record and a linux box, the daemon itself is VERY light on resources

FYI #2: i'm working (again) on bringing electrum (with a twist) to yacoin. merged in latest upstream commits from electrum-server and i'm now testing it (had some problems with buggy rpc interface of yacoind >.< ...it's solved worked around now, hopefully). besides just changing a few bits i added a few methods to the ones the server exposes, so it's now possible to create an entire block explorer based on electrum (even with graphs and stuff) - that means my explorer will be getting an overhaul soon-ish that would make it lightning fast (at least i hope so lol). now the bad news: the client side of electrum got a lil' more difficult as of version 2.0 to port over to yac, so i'm looking for someone to help me with it (though it's mostly "gui" work, i think the hardcore pieces i've written earlier can be reused). AND after this bit of bad news comes some GREAT news: with the server interface enhancements i've made it should be possible to PoS mine directly from a thin electrum client (though it's definitely not the best way to mine... but at least you don't need slow client with big blockchain. the worst thing the server can do to you is not broadcasting your block, but that can be worked around by broadcasting it yourself by getting active node IPs from a dnsseed server Smiley )

FYI #3: i'm looking for a web developer/javascript wizard to create a front-end for an electrum-based block explorer (something like blockchain.info with fancy live block/tx streams and whatnot). if you're interested, shoot me a PM!
sr. member
Activity: 347
Merit: 250
sure, here's a short FAQ

Q: OMG I GOT 50x LOWER HASHRATE WITH YAC THAN I HAVE WITH LTC!!!!1
A: don't look at hashrates, compare your daily profits (learn2math)

Sounds about right.  I guess people are quick to forget the even earlier short FAQ:

Q: OMG I GOT 1000x LOWER HASHRATE WITH LTC THAN I HAVE WITH BTC!!!!1
A: Umm, yup.
hero member
Activity: 516
Merit: 500
CAT.EX Exchange
A bug report here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6501805

It happened after I selected some coins to send in the coin control window, closed the window but didn't send the coins. When I came back to it the choosen stakes found a POS block.
hero member
Activity: 809
Merit: 501
There should be translations of the OP in many languages--yea, especially Chinese. I like how UltraCoin has that setup where you can just click the flag of a different country to get the respective translation.


For the meme contest, I've updated the rules on how the voting will go down and when the bounties will be awarded. The memes are pretty entertaining so far (I've used a couple myself), but there hasn't been a submission in weeks! Even at these extremely deflated prices, first place gets $50 USD worth of coin--for a picture.


http://forum.yacoin.org/index.php?topic=631.0
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bounty-10000-yacoin-meme-contest-561040
hero member
Activity: 802
Merit: 1003
GCVMMWH
Haha that would be nice indeed.

Sairon I am serious people outside China are afraid to touch chacha. Nice little infographic FAQ would help you guys out, just sayin. If you ever do it, feel free to pm me.

In case anyone wants to make changes for the website:  https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin.org   Wink

One thing that would be great is if someone can generate google translate code @ https://translate.google.com/manager/website/
hero member
Activity: 802
Merit: 1003
GCVMMWH
Haha that would be nice indeed.

Sairon I am serious people outside China are afraid to touch chacha. Nice little infographic FAQ would help you guys out, just sayin. If you ever do it, feel free to pm me.

In case anyone wants to make changes for the website:  https://github.com/yacoin/yacoin.org   Wink
legendary
Activity: 1537
Merit: 1005
Haha that would be nice indeed.

Sairon I am serious people outside China are afraid to touch chacha. Nice little infographic FAQ would help you guys out, just sayin. If you ever do it, feel free to pm me.
hero member
Activity: 809
Merit: 501
Any thoughts on the price of YAC?

Its at about half of when I first started. I know the next Nfactor change is coming is about 29 day.

The slow, insidious decline... reminds me of LTC right before it shot up from $1.6 to over $48. A lot of people would rather hold on to bitcoin (or USD) rather than yac, which is understandable. I think it is just a lottery to guess where the bottom will be (and when to sell on the way up!). I don't like this low volume though.

Hey,

I have a feeling that people are afraid of nfactor 14. Is there any faq, or how-to-mine for newbies that I could promote?

sure, here's a short FAQ

Q: OMG I GOT 50x LOWER HASHRATE WITH YAC THAN I HAVE WITH LTC!!!!1
A: don't look at hashrates, compare your daily profits (learn2math)

A newbie like my parents? Or a newbie like an UltraCoin cult member?

It would be awesome to have mining software that automatically detects your hardware and just takes care of the rest. Then parlay that into a multipool (which includes many coins of all algorithms) that pays out in YAC. game. set. match.
hero member
Activity: 809
Merit: 501
no total coins supply ? Any guess ?
TL;DR: unlimited

reasons:
* no block reward halving as in bitcoin, the reward is simply inversly proportional to current difficulty (max possible yearly supply growth is 52`596`000 coins)
* proof of stake minting also increases the total coin supply (at a max possible rate of 5% per year for the whole network)

so the worst-case scenario (inflation-wise) for a one year period is a supply growth of roughly 52.6 million (lowest possible PoW difficulty) + 5% of all previously minted coins (everyone is just hoarding and PoS minting) Smiley

(the calculation above does not account for interest generated from coins minted in the "current" year for the sake of simplicity)

however, the maximum amount of coins that can be sent in a single transaction output is limited to 2`000`000`000 coins (defined in the code as MAX_MONEY constant - so I assume some people incorrectly assume that's the coin supply cap Smiley )

I feel like the word 'unlimited' should be avoided--political correctness Smiley. I like 'no predetermined limit'. A limit theoretically could be reached and total coins could even decline since transaction fees are destroyed.

It is the same as Peercoin except:
1) YAC POS around 5% max annual inflation rate; PPC around 1%
2) POW block reward increases with each NFactor change assuming miners constant

I like this explanation: "Long answer: Unlike bitcoin, ppcoin does not have a fixed money supply cap. However this does not mean that ppcoin is significantly more inflationary than Bitcoin. The minting design attempts to better mimick gold than Bitcoin does in our opinion. Gold does not have a known money supply cap either, but we know it's reliably scarce. For many years annual inflation of gold is around 1-3%. In ppcoin there are two types of minting, proof-of-work and proof-of-stake. The proof-of-work minting rate is regulated by Moore's Law, which dictates that our ability in proof-of-work grows exponentially. We are aware that Moore's Law eventually has to end, but by that time inflation in ppcoin is likely already approaching gold's level. The proof-of-stake minting introduces at most 1% annual inflation. Meanwhile ppcoin's transaction fees are destroyed to counterbalance these inflationary forces. So overall ppcoin's minting design is still a very low future-inflation design comparable to Bitcoin.
There is a 2-billion coin max value in the source code, however that is only used for consistency checking and is not meant to be part of the minting design."

http://www.reddit.com/r/ppcoin/comments/1bv4dt/what_is_ppcoins_coin_cap_easy_to_understand/

Good discussion on economic implications:
http://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=187.0
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
One does not simply mine Bitcoins
Hey,

I have a feeling that people are afraid of nfactor 14. Is there any faq, or how-to-mine for newbies that I could promote?

sure, here's a short FAQ

Q: OMG I GOT 50x LOWER HASHRATE WITH YAC THAN I HAVE WITH LTC!!!!1
A: don't look at hashrates, compare your daily profits (learn2math)
legendary
Activity: 1537
Merit: 1005
Hey,

I have a feeling that people are afraid of nfactor 14. Is there any faq, or how-to-mine for newbies that I could promote?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
One does not simply mine Bitcoins
Any thoughts on the price of YAC?

Its at about half of when I first started. I know the next Nfactor change is coming is about 29 day.

THE PRICE OF YACOIN

IS TOO DAMN LOW

 Roll Eyes
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