Topic: Another crap Amazon wallet find: Material Bitcoin (Read 332 times)

I have seen this garbage product before, actually several months ago in the Spanish section of the forum.
We used to talk about it on this thread opened by DdmrDdmr: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/comprarias-este-producto-para-almacenar-btcs-5388131

I have personally reached the conclusion this project is either some startup done with the aim to deceive potential clients for the sake of selling an way overpriced product or a very elaborate scam in potential; because as others have pointed out, there is no way to be sure they handle the private keys properly.

The fact this only-one address scrap metal wallet is more expensive than a Trezor or a ledger is an actual insult to the intelligence of the Bitcoin community, in my opinion. Back then I could not even verify the existence of their business address.

The curious thing is that they are not scammers, they are a Spanish startup. I imagine they must believe in their product, and apparently, thousands of people believe in them. I've seen this many times before; there are many entrepreneurs who live in a chaotic mistake, but people knows nothing and what matters is the confidence you show. We live in a strange world!

Did you get the wallet directly from yogg or purchased it from a third party? I don't remember the specifics of the Coldkey scam and if yogg saved the private keys of all released series or only some. Is the wallet still funded? If the scam didn't happen and yogg didn't steal the coins, the value of those wallets would obviously be higher. But now it's associated with negative connotations and scams.

I agree, because I see bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general as having a very long life, and at some point in their existence a comprehensive history will be written, and I believe hardware wallets will be more than a footnote.  In other words--and I've said this a number of times before--HW wallets are pieces of crypto history, no matter how shitty or scammy or un-secure they are.  They're sort of like what postage stamps are to the global mail delivery system.

And hey, I heard Coldkey mentioned and don't know much about its history other than it was the vector for a scam.  I'm curious, because I have a Coldkey Genesis Edition which apparently was produced in a run of 250 cards and I'm wondering what its collector's value is.  There's really no way of knowing any info like that, because HW wallet collecting (if it even becomes a thing) is in its infancy.

That's off-topic, but fuck it.  It's my thread and I'll jump naked out of a cake if I want to.  I did a search for Coldkey here but only got two results.

Edit:  Oh Jesus, I really should've tried to search specifically in the Collectibles section for the Coldkey, because I got tons of results (all out of chronological order of course) and also saw a couple auctions for other cards in the series I have.

AND when you've got people like MoparMiningLLC busting out threads like this one, it erases a lot of doubt about HW wallet collecting catching on.  Whew!

Yes, I see that one and I know it's cheaper (but it's still way too fucking expensive), but I don't collect blank seed phrase backup plates, like ColdTi and the like.  I do have some Ballet wallets in my collection, and a couple Arculus wallets, and if you're looking for a rational explanation of why that is....lol, it's just a quirk of mine.  If I was going to buy a Material Bitcoin product for the collection, it'd have to be one the peel-off type.

Fortunately I've got no funds in my collecting stash to blow on anything right now, so there's no dilemma as to whether to buy one of these things.  Nor would I buy one unless it came down to the price of a standard Ballet wallet.

Thanks, bro.  I still haven't browsed their website as I intended to do from the get-go.  My impression is that these guys are trying to fill a need for this junk in the Spanish market, and they just happened to list their wallets on Amazon where US residents could see them.  I don't know.  They could be true to their word and have all of those security features, but to people who know better than to trust a new company with promises that have been broken so many times already in the world of crypto, they're obviously targeting people who don't know better--and that's worrisome. 

It means that they now hold the same kind of registration (within the main governance body that is the Bank of Spain) that CEXs need in order to operate in certain countries. It mostly certifies the following:
On this[1] page of the website from the Bank of Spain you'll find this[2] spreadsheet that holds all the entities that were granted this registration (you'll find in there Binance, Revolut, Bitstamp amongst others). Material Bitcoin is registered as "MIOLO DESARROLLOS, S.L." and was granted a license on 09/2022.
They are not their banking partner but they basically said "Yes, you can operate in our country". Only in here[1] you'll find a warning that states that the Bank of Spain doesn't keep a tab on the daily operations of the service and can't be hold guilty if the service ends up a scam at some point:

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[1]https://www.bde.es/wbe/en/entidades-profesionales/operativa-gestiones/registros/proveedores-moneda-virtual-monederos-electronicos/
[2]https://www.bde.es/f/webbde/SGE/regis/registro_CMV_SCMV_CMC_SCMC.xlsx

Got registered in what sense? That's the Central Bank of Spain if I am not mistaken. Is it their banking partner?
I wouldn't be surprised if the bank has no idea of the dangers this company puts its clients in nor do I think they care. If the project fails miserably, it would cause bad press on the whole crypto ecosystem, and the banks look like the winners in those cases.   

Whats shocks me the most is that they actually got registered within the Bank of Spain! How can an entity like this could support a company with such void claims? I think that this only demonstrates that Banks have no idea what Bitcoin actually is.
To add insult to the injury they also were featured in El Pais[1], one of the biggest journals in Spain. According to the interview (and their CEO) they are already present in 28 countries and they are also having a good reception in the United States, Italy and Chile (their next market is Japan). They are just taking advantage of less informed people with the support of the government and other entities that have supported them financially...

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[1]https://www.pressreader.com/spain/el-pais-pais-vasco-1244/20220927/281857237409627

Take a look at my previous post in this thread. If you want to add one to your collection, buy the DYI plate (the one in the middle on their website). It doesn't come with a pre-generated address and private key, but has 12 empty lines where you can record your own 12-word seed. At one point in the future, you could even use it as a backup. It's still quite pricey at $59.

What a load of bullshit! I am pretty sure they know what they are saying is pure crap but they are targeting the naive that don't know any better. One more time, it's not a wallet, so there is nothing there that can stop working with the downfall of the company. It uses no software and doesn't communicate with company servers. You have the address and private key, but so do the creators of the seed plates.

After checking their site and thinking they were worth a try, I found that they sell three products:

• STANDARD
• DIY
• CUSTOMIZED

DIY: is good as it comes blank, you can write your own seeds inside it and from Jameson Lopp tests https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/, this card is made of AISI 304L steel. It does not have many moving parts and therefore it is good, but I think that its defects are represented in the price, being visible where the word Crypto is engraved on it and the link to the site and therefore it is It's easy for a thief to identify these as crypto words (bad for your privacy.)

STANDARD: is what The Sceptical Chymist showed, and they print the public address according to what you want. The price goes up from $50 to $89, which is a high price just for matching the public address on 304L steel. I don't know why the price on Amazon is $96?

CUSTOMIZED: YOU SHOULD AVOID THEM ANYWAY The price is high, and nonsense your wallet is secure as they print your private key for you.

https://materialbitcoin.com/en/

I would prefer them if their DIY design was similar to this:

I would categorize it as backdoor-ed paper metal wallet. Although people who actually interested with the design/material should check this review written by Jameson Lopp[1].


I cannot believe 309 people funded this project when 70+ similar product[1] already exist.


Is it weird? There are many people and company offer service about bulk custom engraved metal.

[1] https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/.

Part of Bitcoin's DNA is that you shouldn't need to trust someone. This product forces you to put faith and trust that the produced and engraved private key is hidden from any eye ever, except yours. You can't verify this, period! What could possibly make any customer believe this could be the case, except lack of knowledge, ignorance and stupidity.

The private key has been processed by some digital production facility and there were likely enough points of leakage available. The blabla "everything is made safe" is just marketing bullshit. Such a steelwallet is wrong from the very first step.

This looks like Ballet wallet to me  and without checking I bet this product is coming from China (even if they are based in Spain).
Anyone can create a wallet-like product today and post it on Amazon and Ebay, but they won't have much customers.
I saw many weird hardware wallets and we are following all of them in our local board, it's a wild wild west space and I am going to add this one also

Magic? Many kickstarter projects never deliver even if they have good idea, but I don't think Material Bitcoin was ever any good  

This is something that I will try to follow more closely if I'm able to. I may be wrong but I don't see sustainability in the long term for the company, unless they massively market their product. I do reckon that the costs to produce the wallets may be low if they purchase and manufacture in big batches but that doesn't seem to be the case here (unless they are able to finance themselves again in the future to grab a bigger market share of their product).

I've been looking at their Telegram channel (it currently has 630 members) and I have to say that I've seen some information that is... incorrect. Here's an example:

Rough translation:
I don't know what is worse - Misleading their clients into buying their products by making unreal comparisons or not fully understanding how their competitors (in this case Ledger and Trezor) hardware wallets work.

Ah, that was an example I was thinking of where someone did pull off a scam like the one that's possible with Material Bitcoin--I just couldn't remember the name of the member who did it.  AFAIK, Yogg was a fairly trusted member of the collectibles section too. 

These metal cards are aesthetically pleasing (to me at least) and have the appearance of being a convenient way to store bitcoin, but that's what makes them dangerous to people who might not have a clue about crypto security--and I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir with that statement, but perhaps someone will find this thread while researching the Material Bitcoin wallet prior to purchasing it and read it closely.

Hell, I'd buy one just as a collectible if it wasn't so goddamn overpriced.  Not even Ballet wallets are as pricey as $96 except for bundle packs or that 24k gold plated one they have.  I bet they set the price point so high because they only need to sell a few of them to recoup whatever it cost to make a batch--and I doubt they'll be making many more of these.

Agree, as I said above.  And I also said that wallets like these will be a small but perhaps important part of bitcoin's history in years to come.  Or maybe just a footnote, who knows?

From a collectibles perspective, I reckon that some bitcointalk users will probably appreciate having this item in their collections. Other than that I see no reason to prefer this kind of product vs. a similar alternative with a higher degree of privacy - such as making your seed phrases engraved in washers[1][2]. It is more easier to me controlling the environment where my seed phrases are created than just blindly trusting that some entity will take the same amount of measures.

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[1]https://www.econoalchemist.com/post/backup
[2]https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/securing-your-seed-phrase-with-washers-5389446

Oh boy, there's no bullshit limit of things sold online. But a day with a big laugh is no wasted day. I have no words for such shit.

No producer staff needs to even try to see the private key engraving when the keys are very likely created deterministically. But of course the point is that newbies don't know much about such details and some will fall into such a trap. Some sellers really sold their soul to the devil.

Apparently this company - based in Spain - started in 2019 and got their funding from Kickstarter[1] and "309 backers pledged €36,575 to help bring this project to life". In the comments[2] section of KS they keep referring that they have no way of knowing the private keys that are engraved and they also say that their private key (the one that supposedly "is generated by a state-of-the-art, open source, offline, cryptographic engine") is generated by Electrum. Even if they were the most honest company in the world, I wouldn't believe that there can't be a malicious actor, or even worse, that they do something manually during the process that could put in jeopardy the safety of their wallets.

They reassure their clients by saying that their "autonomous" process has been certified by Lambda Telematics[3] but I don't see quite well how this certification could have been issued. Perhaps Lambda Telematics wrote the code that their "robots" use to manufacture their cards? If so, what stops someone to hide a malicious entry in the numerous lines of code so that every private key is sent to some random address without anyone knowing?

What is even more weird - How come that with just ~40.000€ - they were able to build a production line (I suppose that there is one) that engraves the plates and packs them in a security bag with no Human intervention when 70% of the funding went into developing the product[1]?

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[1]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/materialbitcoin/material-bitcoin/description
[2]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/materialbitcoin/material-bitcoin/comments
[3]https://lamtics.com/

People say the perfect crime does not exist, but then there is this wallet  first you scam the people by selling them a little bit of engraved metal for 96 USD and later on you will go ahead and empty out the bitcoins they stored on there. There is basically not a more efficient way of scamming a person.

Sad thing is that there are probably a lot of people buying this stuff anyways.

Almost all of this product was being sold by Yogg and some members in the Collectibles board. The only difference is that the wallet comes empty instead of charged. Yogg has stolen customer funds so don't trust anyone to generate the private key for you.


I chose these designs randomly, and there are many beautiful designs that you can find in the collectibles section, these cards represent paper wallets, not hardware wallets. you can Print the private key below.

The service offered by Material Bitcoin is a scam.