My bet is that the recent announcement of the BM1385 chip (for the S7) will curtail some of the demand for the S5+. Some folks will wait for the S7, currently unkdefined schedule, some folks will just take the S5+ now if they can get it.
The actual announcement of the BM1385 chip, even without an S7 schedule, will likely reduce the overall demand for the S5+.
Topic: ANTMINER S5+ is available to order, 7.722TH/S 0.445J/GH - page 11. (Read 40128 times)
.........
Further, we can look at this from a historic perspective. Has there ever been a mining product from Bitmain in the past that only had a single batch? Even the U3 had 2 batches, and it probably was a niche item.
Further, we can look at this from a historic perspective. Has there ever been a mining product from Bitmain in the past that only had a single batch? Even the U3 had 2 batches, and it probably was a niche item.
Yes.
Antminer S3++
and Antminer L1
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140830074550960Um75pnzg06E3
I think that we are still seeing S5+ batches, but only used miners, and not before a couple of months.
Actually wasn't the L1 basically zero batches given that it never shipped?
Anyway, I take your point. I just hope that they have at least one more batch up their sleeves because I want an S5+ and couldn't move fast enough for batch 1.
How to cool this fella is my main worries
.........
Further, we can look at this from a historic perspective. Has there ever been a mining product from Bitmain in the past that only had a single batch? Even the U3 had 2 batches, and it probably was a niche item.
Further, we can look at this from a historic perspective. Has there ever been a mining product from Bitmain in the past that only had a single batch? Even the U3 had 2 batches, and it probably was a niche item.
Yes.
Antminer S3++
and Antminer L1
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=00020140830074550960Um75pnzg06E3
I think that we are still seeing S5+ batches, but only used miners, and not before a couple of months.
Of course we'll see another batch. There's no way that the S5+ is a one time event. But at this late stage there's no way it will run as long as the S3 did (what was that, 6 batches?)
Were hoping to see more batches but honestly its not a sure thing. I think it is a good chance, but not sure.
If they were doing to get rid of extra chips we will not see it again. If we see batch 2 we can expect to see a few i think.
I agree that we don't know for sure what will happen. We have little visibility into Bitmain's business and we're all just guessing.
But in addition to just using up current (old) chips, Bitmain will need to recoup their development investment with the S5+. It's easy for us to look at an S5+ and say "that's just 3 S5s bolted together". But the fact is that they every product, even an incremental one, costs money to bring it to market.
Whether they can recoup their costs and use up their old chips with one run of the S5+ is unknown, but I think it's unlikely.
What's more likely is that they'll keep making these until there's no demand or they're out of chips. Clearly there's demand, so if they still have chips they'll be more batches.
Further, we can look at this from a historic perspective. Has there ever been a mining product from Bitmain in the past that only had a single batch? Even the U3 had 2 batches, and it probably was a niche item.
Of course we'll see another batch. There's no way that the S5+ is a one time event. But at this late stage there's no way it will run as long as the S3 did (what was that, 6 batches?)
Were hoping to see more batches but honestly its not a sure thing. I think it is a good chance, but not sure.
If they were doing to get rid of extra chips we will not see it again. If we see batch 2 we can expect to see a few i think.
Of course we'll see another batch. There's no way that the S5+ is a one time event. But at this late stage there's no way it will run as long as the S3 did (what was that, 6 batches?)
Here's my fantasy:
1. BTC amps back up to the $1000 range just before Bitmain announces batch 2. They price accordingly at 2.3 BTC per S5+.
2. I place my order.
3. BTC drops back back to today's $240-ish.
4. Difficulty stagnates.
5. Profit.
Don't laugh. It could happen.
Here's my fantasy:
1. BTC amps back up to the $1000 range just before Bitmain announces batch 2. They price accordingly at 2.3 BTC per S5+.
2. I place my order.
3. BTC drops back back to today's $240-ish.
4. Difficulty stagnates.
5. Profit.
Don't laugh. It could happen.
I am not defending dogie , but he said it is cheaper to buy from bitmaintech then itop.
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
id consider buying from itop since he takes paypal, but the higher price is a dealbreaker.. i can see why one would charge a slight premium to cover merchant fees but not that much
There's this thing called "profit". Google it.
yeah There is and I can get one ebay at 2900 with multiple discounts and six months to pay it.
so competition will knock iTop out.
One thing to consider on ebay is fees. By the time ebay and paypal take a chunk of sales really these ebay sellers are making quite a bit less then iTop even though it looks closer at first glance.
I still think we most likely will see another batch. And I could be wrong on that. But I just think they have perfected making these chips at this point, and they can use a LOT of them in these S5+'s. I don't see them turning down profit to pay for net gen.
Then again I could be wrong and they just did one batch to deplete old stocks of chips.
*Edit iTop now shows sold out. I wonder how many they had. We will see if they were selling from all stock or selling some and ordering them bitmain. I don't see them holding a big stock.
Also iTop said they had units for their warranty I wonder how many units if any they keep for those iTop sales if they need warranty work.
I am not defending dogie , but he said it is cheaper to buy from bitmaintech then itop.
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
id consider buying from itop since he takes paypal, but the higher price is a dealbreaker.. i can see why one would charge a slight premium to cover merchant fees but not that much
There's this thing called "profit". Google it.
yeah There is and I can get one ebay at 2900 with multiple discounts and six months to pay it.
so competition will knock iTop out.
If you go with recommended PSU's it is required. The PSU's they recommend don't work with 120.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
They "recommend" their own PSU and it has nothing to do with what is optimal, only what is profitable
120V PSU's are no less effective at powering this beast, so long as each PSU has enough rating to fully power each board fully (only 1 PSU per board), but 12V is 12V. 240V PSU's gain a couple percentage points in efficiency, and when you get into the larger server PSU's they require 240V, but the hardware could care less what's feeding it.
The amount of PCIe cables it takes to run would not change whether you had 9 individual PSU's or 1 4000W PSU, not sure what relevance that has to PSU selection? The best PSU for the job is either the one you've already paid for, or the one that will do the job for the least amount of money that meets your expectations (efficiency, etc) without dying.
If you ROI'ed on a lot I agree it could make sense. But 3 PSU's running on 240 makes a lot nicer setup.
Having 9 PSU's might work but just not the way I mine personally. Again I can see why you would want to use them, but chances are those 9 are not gold. If you had 4-5 gold rated PSU's that could do it sure go for it. I personally just like gold or better getting that extra efficiency.
Yeah or two 2880w PSU's IMO would be ideal.. Less clutter and more room for additional s5+ units.. Instead of a whole bunch of random atx PSU's that one would have lying around.. Yeah it would work but it's not practical other than someone running just one in their garage or whatnot
If you go with recommended PSU's it is required. The PSU's they recommend don't work with 120.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
They "recommend" their own PSU and it has nothing to do with what is optimal, only what is profitable
120V PSU's are no less effective at powering this beast, so long as each PSU has enough rating to fully power each board fully (only 1 PSU per board), but 12V is 12V. 240V PSU's gain a couple percentage points in efficiency, and when you get into the larger server PSU's they require 240V, but the hardware could care less what's feeding it.
The amount of PCIe cables it takes to run would not change whether you had 9 individual PSU's or 1 4000W PSU, not sure what relevance that has to PSU selection? The best PSU for the job is either the one you've already paid for, or the one that will do the job for the least amount of money that meets your expectations (efficiency, etc) without dying.
If you ROI'ed on a lot I agree it could make sense. But 3 PSU's running on 240 makes a lot nicer setup.
Having 9 PSU's might work but just not the way I mine personally. Again I can see why you would want to use them, but chances are those 9 are not gold. If you had 4-5 gold rated PSU's that could do it sure go for it. I personally just like gold or better getting that extra efficiency.
I hope everyone with an S5+ is having a blast and I would enjoy seeing more pics and vids from others. I know you are out there!
Of course people in the US who ordered Friday are likely seeing their orders arrive tomorrow at the earliest as most show shipped first thing Monday (my time) and show clearing Alaska customs today.
I think the increase in efficiency plus what RichBC and Phil have been working on with regular S5 units has a huge potential with the S5+:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/antminer-s5-underclock-undervolt-best-jgh-1151460
If they can find a way to do this with a variety of power supplies which is cost effective...
Show them support and some of the electrical engineers should give some opinions of what they think in that thread. I bet there are many following / lurking closely
This is my "second chance" with BITMAIN, and from what I have seen so far it fits my nano farm perfectly.
Good luck to all, and may the mining angels smile on you.
Of course people in the US who ordered Friday are likely seeing their orders arrive tomorrow at the earliest as most show shipped first thing Monday (my time) and show clearing Alaska customs today.
I think the increase in efficiency plus what RichBC and Phil have been working on with regular S5 units has a huge potential with the S5+:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/antminer-s5-underclock-undervolt-best-jgh-1151460
If they can find a way to do this with a variety of power supplies which is cost effective...
Show them support and some of the electrical engineers should give some opinions of what they think in that thread. I bet there are many following / lurking closely
This is my "second chance" with BITMAIN, and from what I have seen so far it fits my nano farm perfectly.
Good luck to all, and may the mining angels smile on you.
If you go with recommended PSU's it is required. The PSU's they recommend don't work with 120.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
They "recommend" their own PSU and it has nothing to do with what is optimal, only what is profitable
120V PSU's are no less effective at powering this beast, so long as each PSU has enough rating to fully power each board fully (only 1 PSU per board), but 12V is 12V. 240V PSU's gain a couple percentage points in efficiency, and when you get into the larger server PSU's they require 240V, but the hardware could care less what's feeding it.
The amount of PCIe cables it takes to run would not change whether you had 9 individual PSU's or 1 4000W PSU, not sure what relevance that has to PSU selection? The best PSU for the job is either the one you've already paid for, or the one that will do the job for the least amount of money that meets your expectations (efficiency, etc) without dying.
probably just trying to get his money back after realizing he didnt have 220v
There is NO BLOODY REQUIREMENT FOR 220 to run a S5+. Never has been. I don't understand why this rubbish BS claim keeps popping up.
Yes, it might be a bit more efficient, as you get less I2R losses in the input circuitry to the PS and a hair less in the wiring. It's NOT a requirement.
If you go with recommended PSU's it is required. The PSU's they recommend don't work with 120.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
It makes perfect sense if you're like me and have a dozen PSUs sitting around collecting dust... and there are many former miners in a similar situation. Just sayin'.
Although I'm absolutely NOT interested in the S5+ at all. It's barely an improvement on the S5. It looks to me like Bitmain is simply trying to find a way to quickly dispose of the previous generation chips to make way for the next gen.
probably just trying to get his money back after realizing he didnt have 220v
There is NO BLOODY REQUIREMENT FOR 220 to run a S5+. Never has been. I don't understand why this rubbish BS claim keeps popping up.
Yes, it might be a bit more efficient, as you get less I2R losses in the input circuitry to the PS and a hair less in the wiring. It's NOT a requirement.
If you go with recommended PSU's it is required. The PSU's they recommend don't work with 120.
But yes you could keep throwing 120 lines to lower power PSU's. But would not make a lot of sense. Just look at amount of PCI-e cables it takes. But if you ROI'ed on a lot of ATX supplies and had multiple line's of 120 close together yes you could run it.
the paypal option is nice Gareth.. but soon you will have other resellers stocking up on these offering them for under 3k. I know Scott at HolyBitcoin is getting a shipment in and accepts paypal as well, i think he is planning on offering them at 2999.97
They are on ebay at $2900 + $60 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-Antminer-S5-7-7TH-ASIC-Bitcoin-Miner-Brand-New-Factory-Sealed-Box-/262009233717?hash=item3d00f7a135
yeah not bad, some guy had one for 2500 earlier and it was snatched up quick lol, makes me wonder why he had it so low with ebay / paypal fees.. probably just trying to get his money back after realizing he didnt have 220v
That would be a foolish reason since it only needs 12v DC
I am not defending dogie , but he said it is cheaper to buy from bitmaintech then itop.
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
Now itop may not like that but that was true.
http://www.itopshop.net/world-biggest-miner-antminer-s5-bitcoin-miner-77-t-3436w-p-271.html
3299 plus shipping
https://www.bitmaintech.com/productDetail.htm?pid=0002015081407532655504JMKzsM067B
2307 plus shipping
so we are talking about a big mark up here.
My question to iTop is will you reduce price or keep the markup?
id consider buying from itop since he takes paypal, but the higher price is a dealbreaker.. i can see why one would charge a slight premium to cover merchant fees but not that much
There's this thing called "profit". Google it.
probably just trying to get his money back after realizing he didnt have 220v
There is NO BLOODY REQUIREMENT FOR 220 to run a S5+. Never has been. I don't understand why this rubbish BS claim keeps popping up.
Yes, it might be a bit more efficient, as you get less I2R losses in the input circuitry to the PS and a hair less in the wiring. It's NOT a requirement.
i placed an order for 6 x antminer s5's 1 day before the s5+ was released and paid in full, now the bitmaintech support wont let me transfer my funds to a new order and pay the remaining difference to receive the s5+....not very pleased.
Well that's your fault for not paying attention to what was coming down the line from Bitmain. The S5+ hasn't been a secret for quite some time.
I'm fairly confident they will sell more batches of the s5+, it just makes sense from a business perspective.. Why release new gen when the competition is non existent.. S5+ was tempting but I opted to get some sp20's instead for the stealth factor
Depends, the S2 and S3++ were used to help consume the last of a generation's chip supplies and the S5+ may be the same. There's probably a finite number of S5+s planned and even if they're selling better than expected there may not be significant follow up stock. The S7 has to appear at some point.
I think it will be based on profit. These sure do use up a lot of chips which could clear out inventory. But also I think with current gen chips they have perfected process so if they make money I could see making chips for it and doing more batches.
Or the could wait till next gen before making more chips. I think all depends on financials that likely will not be shared.
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