Topic: Are no-KYC services banned? - page 2. (Read 1034 times)

Mainly just point out to people when they're sleepwalking into subservience.  The path of least resistance is often the one they want you to follow.  Small acts of defiance can be powerful and limit the potential of nudge theory.  If people don't allow themselves to be manipulated, they're more difficult to control.  Don't sign over your personal details for KYC.  Don't acknowledge "taint" (and avoid using services which do).  Don't give up ownership for the sake of convenience.  Then they can't control you.

Lmao.  "We get your coins, we give you other users' coins, but please don't mistake us for a mixer".  Right, got it.    


Democrats, Republicans, they're just two sides of the same coin when it comes to government.  They both crave control, and given that only a small minority of their constituents prioritizes privacy, they'll recklessly implement Know Your Customer regulations without hesitation. 


What strategies do you propose for resisting it?  Because from what I see, there aren't any.  We're simply a minority, and our strengths lie in writing and developing software, which is indeed powerful, but it doesn't entirely solve the problem. 

Because it's money, and money can be used as a form of control.  How to control people is always a partisan issue.  Much the the political manoeuvring at the moment is 'nudge theory'.  Doing just enough to make people do what the authorities want.  And people usually fall for that, so it will probably work unless we're actively opposing it.

Because they want to create the illusion that they are doing something productive, but we all know that no investigation or work group will ever happen into them.

This is a bill by democrats. If they had proposed a law to stop anonymous payments to exchanges forever, it would've been shot down by republicans.

Why oh why has Bitcoin become partisan?

For most people, you're right. But as long as I live in this country, the opinion of the Dutch authorities matters (whether I like it or not).

I'm curious why they're proposing a ban for only two years, instead of forever.

Well all stuff aside, I have to admit that "tor-only", "non-kyc" and indirect mixing service seems quite shady from my perspective as a normal user of other exchanges.
I got to admit I miss times where most of the services did not require KYC to operate, but this three characteristics together doesn't feel quite safe to me 

Unfortunately, their opinion is just as important as the opinion of anyone here on the forum. We all know where these crazy rules come from, it's just a matter of how we got there
https://cryptodaily.co.uk/news-in-crypto/observers:u-s-members-of-congress-propose-two-year-ban-on-crypto-mixers

Yes it is true. It all depends on how it is used.

That's why I compared the current situation of mixes to torrent sites. Are they illegal? No. Can they be used? Yes. Could they contain illegal content? Yes. Does everyone use it for this purpose? No.

In the end, it all comes down to how the person will use the service and how the service is set up. And this is what can still be difficult to perceive in current mixes.

Fun fact: Chain analysis bots have a separate category for "mixer" which they automatically classify as high-risk because they would otherwise have to, er, break CoinJoin, which we know they can't do. This is in addition to the other categories they have like gambling (??), sanctions evasion, government action.

I saw a stat on one homepage saying one of four wallets is suspicious.

If everyone were to use a mixer, it would break the model and make it 100% of funds being suspicious (therefore they cannot be suspicious) and it would force them to actually nab the criminals before they send them to a mixer.

The service wasn’t very subtle about what they were trying to accomplish. This is what it said in their ANN thread:


Being a non-KYC exchange isn’t the problem, there are still a few services like that which are currently running campaigns. The MrStork account showed up around the time of the mixer ban, prior to that they don’t seem to have any online presence. It almost appears as if this exchange service was created solely for the purpose of bypassing the mixer ban.

Only if they start a signature campaign here, which I don't expect.

The Dutch authorities disagree with you:

That's another thing they're slowly banning. The maximum amount you're allowed to pay in cash gets lower and lower. That's going to stop honest people, while criminals are breaking the law already.

Remove BTC > BTC, remove advertising aspect of improving privacy. The service will become a regular exchange service. It will not be that bad, if they want to advertise it in Bitcointalk.

that is the future and it will go back to a paper bag with cash in it when you want to move wealth on the sneak.

crypto will not get used for sneak hidden wealth movement.

This confused me too, but based on what I saw with them, they are based on cleaning tainted coins. Check their overview of service
The next thing, they completely took over and copied the exch design, which casts a lot of doubt on the honesty of their service. The biggest part of the code is identical.

After all, I certainly wouldn't trust them and they seem like they are a high-risk scam. It is probably better that they are removed from the forum.

There are many ways to do things, they just don't have to be announced in advance. It is up to each person to find the tools they want to use, to achieve what they want to do.

Whether you like it or not, when you talk about a mixing service, you automatically mean it as being used to move money obtained illegally, in order to lose track of it. Therefore, even if our use is not for this purpose, this is the tag that these services have before the authorities. Therefore, any external platform that carries out any type of promotion/publicity of these services may suffer penalties. I believe that no one wants this to happen to the forum.

Because, just as the forum does not authorize the promotion of markets where drugs, weapons and other illegal items are sold (according to the government), the same ends up happening with "mixers". It's true that sometimes you can be too radical with the etiquette of a particular service. In this, I agree that it should be analyzed in more detail in the future. Either way, I realize that it is an attitude with the aim of "playing it safe".

I look at this situation that is happening with mixers, the same as what happened 10 years ago with torrent sites. And until the dust settles, it will be difficult to explore this market without running into problems with the authorities. Maybe many don't remember the strong attack that torrent sites had, but today things are calmer, and in the end nothing has changed significantly.

Therefore, I think that sometimes it creates more drama than anything else. We must observe events and adjust the way we do the things we want. This does not mean that I agree with the authorities' actions on this topic, but unfortunately at the moment there is not much that can be done if we do not adjust our way of acting a little.

If this forum bans all non-KYC exchanges I guarantee you that members are going to be doing a 180 and praising once-reviled exchanges like Binance and Coinbase and stuff.

Not me, though. I don't walk with the crowd.

After reading all the replies can I say that there is a shadow ban on non-KYC exchange. My straightforward reasoning is that none of us know how to work out to find bad money in the form of Bitcoin. It might be an issue but there are great minds here who could find a solution to this issue. That will be the next step to wipe out Bitcoin's negative fame.

All this non-KYC talk here is bollocks. Do you guys pay attention to how they actually ask you for KYC? Here, I will give you a debreifing if you aren't already aware of it yet:


If it was identification by sending a simple picture of your ID and or a bank statement, its fine. But verifiers make it so complicated to pass verification, by demanding the documentation be sent in certain ways, like in the quote I just pulled, by denying documents for arbitrary reasons, and let's not forget that these entities who verify us are not even governmental authorities, they are private businesses who have no interest in following the law properly as long as they are making a profit. So it is a net loss for users.

It is a quite sorry state of affairs when you have to post a mugshot of yourself holding a piece of paper with your name and random text in order for it to be considered as verification material. Even the banks themselves are not asking for this kind of information!

And that is after you consider the fact that almost all the financial services you would want to verify for are not available for US persons. So while these businesses are de-banking many sections of the world who want to use cryptocurrency (including many third world countries), why are we twerking for them in our recent posts here?

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The reason why theymos banned mixers in the first place is because he does not want the forum to be subject to a federal investigation, not because he believes in the nonsense directives of non-KYC exchanges being somehow unsafe. So as long as there is no operation against exchange services, don't expect him to do anything about it.

it doesn't really matter what coin you convert your "tainted" BTC into... The major criteria that a mixer possesses is converting whatever coin (dirty or not) into viable coins, and a nonKYC platform does the same - since every user's privacy is somehow guaranteed
Not just becoming a risk for lenders; It'll only make the governs rejiger thier privacy scrutiny... Fuckin' dictators!!
The annual death rate statistics by guns and knives isn't as disturbing as the percentage of "dirty coins" that are laundered year in year out!
guns have been ingrained in the US already, mhan.

Like needing training, a license, insurance and MOT? I wouldn't call it an "attack", but it's strictly regulated.

Gasoline cares are already banned from some cities, guns are banned in general in my country, and knives aren't allowed to be caried in a growing number of cities either. I'm not sure now if it's the best comparison though: not many people will discuss online about replaying Death Race 2000 in real life. But we do have an ever growing government, and they won't volunteer to give back freedoms.