Are provably fair gambling sites really provable? - page 3.

Naokia980

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Quote from: endenada on May 22, 2017, 01:23:42 PM

Quote from: JasonXG on May 22, 2017, 01:04:31 PM

Quote from: iram3130 on May 22, 2017, 05:46:40 AM

Quote from: terrate on May 22, 2017, 02:54:14 AM

above ald explain so many.
maybe this topic can also go top topic and fixed it. as btc casino special on provable fair.

People need to understand how the hashing system works. Yes, we can prove whether a bitcoin casino is probably fair or not. Every system can be checked and it is a plus point for the casino if it is probably fair otherwise it'll be just a scam in the long run.

People should rather worry about being paid out without having been pestered for ID all the time just to void payment. I guess it is free because you can't argue with maths and figures so I would rather sorry about that.

I worry for your sorry! I try to understand what you mean pestered for id! On Internet, our address is our e-mail address and our ID is our IP! Problem may arise if site is real and we are, users,virtual! So, they will use KYC as Internet is Interpol! To alleviate domination of reals in virtual sphere we need supra-real (divine) contributions!
We know that somebody can check provably fair service and tell us: "It is okay!". But, who would be that entity?

Sometimes you can take and check hash on another site.But it wouldnt make you to feel better. With proper money management you can only handle"fairness". If you have experinece in this field you will get that point Wink

endenada

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Quote from: JasonXG on May 22, 2017, 01:04:31 PM

Quote from: iram3130 on May 22, 2017, 05:46:40 AM

Quote from: terrate on May 22, 2017, 02:54:14 AM

above ald explain so many.
maybe this topic can also go top topic and fixed it. as btc casino special on provable fair.

People need to understand how the hashing system works. Yes, we can prove whether a bitcoin casino is probably fair or not. Every system can be checked and it is a plus point for the casino if it is probably fair otherwise it'll be just a scam in the long run.

People should rather worry about being paid out without having been pestered for ID all the time just to void payment. I guess it is free because you can't argue with maths and figures so I would rather sorry about that.

I worry for your sorry! I try to understand what you mean pestered for id! On Internet, our address is our e-mail address and our ID is our IP! Problem may arise if site is real and we are, users,virtual! So, they will use KYC as Internet is Interpol! To alleviate domination of reals in virtual sphere we need supra-real (divine) contributions!
We know that somebody can check provably fair service and tell us: "It is okay!". But, who would be that entity?

JasonXG

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Activity: 770

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Quote from: iram3130 on May 22, 2017, 05:46:40 AM

Quote from: terrate on May 22, 2017, 02:54:14 AM

above ald explain so many.
maybe this topic can also go top topic and fixed it. as btc casino special on provable fair.

People need to understand how the hashing system works. Yes, we can prove whether a bitcoin casino is probably fair or not. Every system can be checked and it is a plus point for the casino if it is probably fair otherwise it'll be just a scam in the long run.

People should rather worry about being paid out without having been pestered for ID all the time just to void payment. I guess it is free because you can't argue with maths and figures so I would rather sorry about that.

adaseb

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Well most people look for provably fair and assume if a site says "provably fair" that they bets are safe but most don't understand how it actually works.

Basically take some time and read https://dicesites.com/provably-fair and you will learn how it works.

Problem is each gambling site is a little different so the script might not work for you but the concept is the same.

Before the bets are played the roll is already deteremined and can't be faked ahead of time.

endenada

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i am following you .... i am presumed first recourse, admin and mod of online industry for all users .... so, first i was stroke by: hey, who checks fairness of the rolls provided by site owners on their games when they generate rolls ... users have not any such entity, maybe owners have an authority that will guarantee us that fairness to keep our souls at calm .... probably we will find a neutral body that can reconcile us all .... but, haha, yes, i have to give a solution from my position .. so i did ... we can create an independent service online which will provide all gaming industry with a number which has to be merged into all rolls and draws online .... i named that number: Divine Intervention Number ..!.. DIN ...!

milewilda

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

Showing seeds is a great plus for me when i do play some games which is usually on dice sites and other games which do have this kind of verification of bets. I think they are provably fair as seeds and hash can be seen randomly generated which means they arent manipulated in each time you do make a roll but for other games i dont really much have an idea.

iram3130

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Quote from: terrate on May 22, 2017, 02:54:14 AM

above ald explain so many.
maybe this topic can also go top topic and fixed it. as btc casino special on provable fair.

People need to understand how the hashing system works. Yes, we can prove whether a bitcoin casino is probably fair or not. Every system can be checked and it is a plus point for the casino if it is probably fair otherwise it'll be just a scam in the long run.

HCP

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Quote from: game-protect on May 21, 2017, 04:40:44 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 04:34:10 PM

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but most in house developed games in the Bitcoin gambling world are provably fair.

Provably fair works for most games that aren't dice, as they are based on random number generators, which is the perfect set up for a provably fair game.

In regards to poker i.e., I have never heard that players can request a seed in advance?

And if you play slots, you can take a look at the seeds in advance?

Yes... of course... Assuming it is a legit gambling site...

They even explain the methodology used to turn a random number into the game result:

You can do similar things with Blackjack:

and Roulette:

At the end of the day... pretty much any game can be worked out as relating to a "random number"... all they do is assign a slot "image" or a playing card to each number generated...

terrate

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Newbie in online currency , love learning

above ald explain so many.
maybe this topic can also go top topic and fixed it. as btc casino special on provable fair.

Stunna

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Primedice.com, Stake.com

Games that provide you a new serverseed and clientseed every roll/round can typically only be trusted if you set a client seed every single time you place a bet which requires insane discipline. The dice sites and games like bustabit feature high standards of provably fair, majority of bitcoin casinos I've seen and software like that of softswiss are not really getting the point of 'provably fair' is. Provably fair has just as much to do with the fact that a result cannot be manipulated rather than simply the fact that it can be verified to match.

DomingoX6

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

Check this topic, it may help you to understand how provably fair works

ImHash

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Could anyone host a simulation of a provably fair dice so we can test some strategies on them? because either God is messing with us when we deploy strategies which mathematically defeats the house or the house is somehow cheating.
Hell those so called experts missed the asicboost and only a few people figured that out, I wonder what are the odds some day some one finds a hole in provably fair.

Wusolini

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no need to carry heavy money bags anymore

Quote from: game-protect on May 21, 2017, 04:40:44 PM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 04:34:10 PM

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but most in house developed games in the Bitcoin gambling world are provably fair.

Provably fair works for most games that aren't dice, as they are based on random number generators, which is the perfect set up for a provably fair game.

In regards to poker i.e., I have never heard that players can request a seed in advance?

And if you play slots, you can take a look at the seeds in advance?

To be really provably fair you should be able to check (and also change) the client seed in advance (server seed are published later e.g. next day)

I'm pretty sure the fairness system can be applied for poker as well ( in principle it's enough when the site can prove the result was known at the game begining and has not changed)

game-protect

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Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 04:34:10 PM

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but most in house developed games in the Bitcoin gambling world are provably fair.

Provably fair works for most games that aren't dice, as they are based on random number generators, which is the perfect set up for a provably fair game.

In regards to poker i.e., I have never heard that players can request a seed in advance?

And if you play slots, you can take a look at the seeds in advance?

DarkStar_

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Quote from: game-protect on May 21, 2017, 04:20:57 PM

Can you prove all games offered in regards to provably fair do people here speak only about dice games?

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but most in house developed games in the Bitcoin gambling world are provably fair.

Provably fair works for most games that aren't dice, as they are based on random number generators, which is the perfect set up for a provably fair game.

game-protect

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Can you prove all games offered in regards to provably fair or do people here only speak about dice games?

Wusolini

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no need to carry heavy money bags anymore

Quote from: boy130 on May 21, 2017, 02:55:02 PM

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

Hi,

If they have explained 100% how their provably fair works then u can check it at any time and it is too risky for them to manipulate with it. BUT i have seen personally some casinos who DO NOT post all info about how their results are calculating so there are bitcoin gambling sites who can use FAKE provably fair.

You should be a smart person to understand how the result is calculating as there are VERY complicated provably fair mechanisms.

Be patient! Wink

Exactly, you need to know how to verify it.

BTT: in past I have tried to explain the principle and was quite good response about ... see:

Quote from: Wusolini on July 23, 2014, 04:45:54 PM

...
I can explain it on simple example, (just the principle)

BTCRock - it's game where you have a grid 20x20 and you have 6 attempts to find gold vein.

Their proof is that immediately after solving captcha you can see hash of "gold vein coordinates ".

After you made your 6 tries, a result is shown to you:

Proof is that from begining the coordinates gold vein was [11,9], and was not moved if you luckily hit it ( it would change the hash)

You can check it using: http://www.xorbin.com/tools/sha256-hash-calculator

1 - enter: 65879c50984f5b9ede009960e6efa3c6|[11,9] (proof of location, shown after game end)
2 - hash it (using sha2586)
3 - you'll get: c0344a8d187371c671d9e16cb27190a74caef8fe32ab66be7287ed050fca2b12 (this is what you know from begining)

tip: for clarity try to change one coordinate and hash it again, will see you got completely different hash.

P.S. This's only principle, and can be used in various way. You should check description on particular site.

boy130

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

Hi,

If they have explained 100% how their provably fair works then u can check it at any time and it is too risky for them to manipulate with it. BUT i have seen personally some casinos who DO NOT post all info about how their results are calculating so there are bitcoin gambling sites who can use FAKE provably fair.

You should be a smart person to understand how the result is calculating as there are VERY complicated provably fair mechanisms.

Be patient! Wink

marlboroza

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:38:16 AM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 11:35:26 AM

If they change the hashed seed, than hashing it again to verify will return a different result than what the server gave you, so you know they cheated.

Most verifiers check to make sure that the legit hash was used.

How do the verifiers check the legit/original hash was used?

The hash is provided by the gambling service. They can just issue you a fake hash and provide you with a fake solution and you will never know right?

Go to google and type sha256 converter and calculator and open one of the links.

Now, go to gambling site and copy your pre-rolled sha256 hash server seed somewhere. When you roll/spin/whatever server seed will be revealed to you.
Now, go to sha256 calculator and copy/paste server seed, you will get sha256 hash for it.

Compare with saved one(pre-rolled one)

Joel_Jantsen

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Get your game girl

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

Provided they're generated on the client side.Stuff can always be manipulated if it involves server side processing.

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

You need to read this this article : https://dicesites.com/provably-fair

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

If you know little bit about web development,you can press the button to see if any network calls are made to generate those seeds.Client side function doesn't invoke any network calls.

Topic: Are provably fair gambling sites really provable? - page 3. (Read 2972 times)