Are provably fair gambling sites really provable? - page 4.

actmyname

copper member

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Spear the bees

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:38:16 AM

How do the verifiers check the legit/original hash was used?

The hash is provided by the gambling service. They can just issue you a fake hash and provide you with a fake solution and you will never know right?

What are you talking about? You get the hash from the original server seed. If they provide a fake server seed it will result in a different hash and likewise if they provide a fake hash it will result in a different server seed.

How would they provide you with a fake hash?

They will tell you what kind of hash is used on the server seed and thus you will be able to hash it yourself using any tool to verify that the hashed server seed is actually what they gave you.

Say I'm using SHA256.

I provide you with this as the hashed server seed: c6d5765a8e760bb32eb0ce4c989b415b088790de4d2826695516a367f33b70e8

Afterward, I provide you with the unhashed server seed: actmyname

You can verify it. It's simple and straightforward.

goinmerry

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Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:38:16 AM

Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 11:35:26 AM

If they change the hashed seed, than hashing it again to verify will return a different result than what the server gave you, so you know they cheated.

Most verifiers check to make sure that the legit hash was used.

How do the verifiers check the legit/original hash was used?

The hash is provided by the gambling service. They can just issue you a fake hash and provide you with a fake solution and you will never know right?

You have a point. I don't have technical analysis to share but for a thousands of professional online gamblers in the world including in the crypto world, Im pretty sure that it should, at least one of them can technically and professionally verified if a certain site has unusual shit doing around their verifier.

Also for a famous gambling site, at least in some majority of the cases, they will not ruin their reputation for that rigged hashes or something as running their operation continously will give them huge earnings than to shut down all the things and get all the money from the players.

jmigdlc99

sr. member

Activity: 784

Merit: 282

Quote from: DarkStar_ on May 21, 2017, 11:35:26 AM

If they change the hashed seed, than hashing it again to verify will return a different result than what the server gave you, so you know they cheated.

Most verifiers check to make sure that the legit hash was used.

How do the verifiers check the legit/original hash was used?

The hash is provided by the gambling service. They can just issue you a fake hash and provide you with a fake solution and you will never know right?

DarkStar_

legendary

Activity: 2772

Merit: 3284

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:33:46 AM

Quote from: actmyname on May 21, 2017, 11:12:31 AM

If they show the hashed seed before you bet, and the process using the server seed (provided afterward) and your client seed results in the output along with their server seed hashing into the hashed seed then it's perfectly verifiable.

Suppose my server seed is X and the result of it and your client seed would be tails (in a head/tails game).

I then hash the seed with SHA-256 and show it to you publicly. After you bet I reveal the server seed and boom: you can verify everything since I can't lie about the hash.

Please correct me if I have made an error in any way.

You are correct, but my point is that: is the "hashed seed" they show you, really the seed used to run the game?

for example they can just generate a random hash seed (asdbfj891y23basd) and display it on their website but then actually, their game will use a different hash seed (138sdf71982789zcxz). then when you lose, they will of course show you the server seed which solves your seed. but in reality it is totally different.

If they change the hashed seed, than hashing it again to verify will return a different result than what the server gave you, so you know they cheated.

Most verifiers check to make sure that the legit hash was used.

jmigdlc99

sr. member

Activity: 784

Merit: 282

Quote from: actmyname on May 21, 2017, 11:12:31 AM

If they show the hashed seed before you bet, and the process using the server seed (provided afterward) and your client seed results in the output along with their server seed hashing into the hashed seed then it's perfectly verifiable.

Suppose my server seed is X and the result of it and your client seed would be tails (in a head/tails game).

I then hash the seed with SHA-256 and show it to you publicly. After you bet I reveal the server seed and boom: you can verify everything since I can't lie about the hash.

Please correct me if I have made an error in any way.

You are correct, but my point is that: is the "hashed seed" they show you, really the seed used to run the game?

for example they can just generate a random hash seed (asdbfj891y23basd) and display it on their website but then actually, their game will use a different hash seed (138sdf71982789zcxz). then when you lose, they will of course show you the server seed which solves your seed. but in reality it is totally different.

actmyname

copper member

Activity: 2562

Merit: 2510

Spear the bees

Quote from: jmigdlc99 on May 21, 2017, 11:00:05 AM

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

If they show the hashed seed before you bet, and the process using the server seed (provided afterward) and your client seed results in the output along with their server seed hashing into the hashed seed then it's perfectly verifiable.

Suppose my server seed is X and the result of it and your client seed would be tails (in a head/tails game).

I then hash the seed with SHA-256 and show it to you publicly. After you bet I reveal the server seed and boom: you can verify everything since I can't lie about the hash.

Please correct me if I have made an error in any way.

jmigdlc99

sr. member

Activity: 784

Merit: 282

Yes, gambling sites provide us with server seeds that can be verified.

But how do we really know that these seeds are used in actual gambling process?

Isnt it possible they are just displaying server seeds and hashes that we can verify but in reality the server seeds they are using in the back-end functions of the game are actually different/rigged?

Topic: Are provably fair gambling sites really provable? - page 4. (Read 2972 times)