Are you with or against "the U.K. quits the European Union" ? - page 10.

valta4065

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Quote from: criptix on February 24, 2016, 04:01:16 PM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 24, 2016, 12:55:28 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 01:56:39 AM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it Cheesy

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian. Grin

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 28, 2016, 02:00:48 PM

Quote from: bitsmichel on January 28, 2016, 01:21:09 PM

Where do you live? I always thought you were Russian Huh

I am from Singapore (part-Indian, part-Chinese, part-Scottish). I don't think there are any posters from Russian Federation active here. Most of them post only in the Russian language subsection within this forum.

This guy is one of the biggest lier here on bct or he has some really bad mental issues.
Wanna know something funny? He stated proudly in the past that he was indian and part white until the "extreme racist" thread showed that indians are in avg just a bit smarter then blacks and SEA are the smartest. Now his narrative is that he is SEA and from Singapore with some other stuff mixed.
(And of course no way indian!!)

Germanys debt:

Whole debt is around 2 trillion since WW2 until now. And we pay with distance to the 2nd placed GB the most into EU.

Don't know if he's a liar but what's sure is that he spreads only hoaxes and BS on the whole forum...

criptix

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Activity: 2464

Merit: 1145

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 24, 2016, 12:55:28 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 01:56:39 AM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it Cheesy

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian. Grin

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 28, 2016, 02:00:48 PM

Quote from: bitsmichel on January 28, 2016, 01:21:09 PM

Where do you live? I always thought you were Russian Huh

I am from Singapore (part-Indian, part-Chinese, part-Scottish). I don't think there are any posters from Russian Federation active here. Most of them post only in the Russian language subsection within this forum.

This guy is one of the biggest lier here on bct or he has some really bad mental issues.
Wanna know something funny? He stated proudly in the past that he was indian and part white until the "extreme racist" thread showed that indians are in avg just a bit smarter then blacks and SEA are the smartest. Now his narrative is that he is SEA and from Singapore with some other stuff mixed.
(And of course no way indian!!)

Germanys debt:

Whole debt is around 2 trillion since WW2 until now. And we pay with distance to the 2nd placed GB the most into EU.

xslugx

sr. member

Activity: 293

Merit: 250

Quote from: Elwar on February 24, 2016, 11:13:15 AM

Quote from: xslugx on February 24, 2016, 10:43:03 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 09:46:30 AM

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 05:57:05 AM

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...

Capitalism is dead in the US.

WTF? If capitalism is dead in the US what is their economic system then???

mainpmf

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 22, 2016, 09:52:43 PM

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

Dumb comment, dumb as hell ><

Germany has power only what we give them. They have no way to impose their view on EU!!! Please think before writing!

LoyceV

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Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 22, 2016, 09:52:43 PM

I am in favor of the UK leaving the EU. It will accelerate the disintegration of the European Union. It will be good for the native people of Europe. The European Union was another attempt by the Germans to create the Fourth Reich, where Germany will dominate the other European nations. The Brits are intelligent, and that is why they are cancelling their membership.

^^ Exactly. EU is a self-arranged government without support from the people, and which the people never asked for. You could call it a dictatorship, and their interests are far from the interests of the European population.

iluvbitcoins

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Freedom&Honor

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 01:56:39 AM

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

Except for Germany having a debt of 2.2 trillion €

That is not the full picture. Germany is very close to becoming a net debt-holder nation. They own federal debt from nations such as Greece and Portugal. I am not quite sure about the amount, but it might be close to € 2 trillion.

Quote from: iluvbitcoins on February 23, 2016, 03:25:58 PM

You're a ruskie, you don't want a strong union of countries on the west, it's cool, we get it Cheesy

A few weeks ago, another user famous for his verbal diarrhea claimed that I am Indian. Now you are claiming that I am Russian. The truth is that I am neither Indian, nor Russian. Grin

I thought I read somewhere you were a ruskie, if I'm mistaken sorry

I remembered you for the bitcoin island thread, which spurred up my interest quite a bit

Daniel91

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Activity: 3374

Merit: 1824

I'm against it but UK citizens have democratic right to decide if they want to stay in EU or leave.
I just hope they will decide based on intellect, not emotions.
They should understand how much financially and economically, even politically, they will loose if they decide to leave.
UK companies will loose market, people will loose jobs, political influence of UK will decrease, Scotland will probably separate from London etc.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 12:02:57 PM

Not working, the most basic food and clothing stuff is cheaper of course, but that's not something what the middle class would buy, and the quality stuff is about the same price as in England or Germany. Salaries however a lot less. At home I was a quite well paid IT professional, with a salary far above the average, but that was still less than what shop assistants got in England. Since I've bought a house here, gained permanent residency, maybe I'll go for citizenship this year, I have no intention to go home very soon. Most of the fellow ex-middle class Hungarians are thinking and acting on a similar way. Nobody really want to go home to be a dogsbody to some penny-pinching rude bastard for peanuts again.

Have you ever thought about starting your own IT business? I am also working in the IT industry, and I still dream about starting my own company (not in the near future, but after 10 or 15, or even 20 years). The Western European markets are saturated. There will be a lot of opportunity in countries such as Hungary. Perhaps if you could find 10 or 12 Hungarians working in the IT industry in the United Kingdom, then it might be possible to start a new venture back home.

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 12:02:57 PM

Actually skilled professionals can find a work (can get a work permit) in the western countries even if their country isn't an EU member. There are no chance to attract these professionals unless a country can offer the same or at least similar salary. Regarding factory workers there is a language barrier.

Trust me, it is very difficult for someone in South-east Asia to get a work visa for the United Kingdom. The first preference is given to the British, then to the rest of EU. As per labor laws, someone from outside the EU can be hired only if there is no one in the EU to fill that vacancy.

The average salary for a doctor in Ukraine is around $300 to $500 per month. If the Hungarian government is willing to pay them $1,000 per month, then a lot many of them will happily immigrate to Hungary. And language barrier can be overcome very easily, with the help of translators.

Snail2

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 09:46:30 AM

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

In my opinion it's closer to the 50-50%. The free looting after joining the EU was the second round, when the bosses sold everything what they haven't stole

.

Quote

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

Actually skilled professionals can find a work (can get a work permit) in the western countries even if their country isn't an EU member. There are no chance to attract these professionals unless a country can offer the same or at least similar salary. Regarding factory workers there is a language barrier.

Quote

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Not working, the most basic food and clothing stuff is cheaper of course, but that's not something what the middle class would buy, and the quality stuff is about the same price as in England or Germany. Salaries however a lot less. At home I was a quite well paid IT professional, with a salary far above the average, but that was still less than what shop assistants got in England. Since I've bought a house here, gained permanent residency, maybe I'll go for citizenship this year, I have no intention to go home very soon. Most of the fellow ex-middle class Hungarians are thinking and acting on a similar way. Nobody really want to go home to be a dogsbody to some penny-pinching rude bastard for peanuts again.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: xslugx on February 24, 2016, 10:43:03 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 09:46:30 AM

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 05:57:05 AM

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...

Capitalism is dead in the US.

trickyriky

sr. member

Activity: 882

Merit: 251

anybody wanting to remain in, i suggest you move there before the vote, WE ARE LEAVING LIKE IT OR LUMP IT, and all the ins will be hung by the outs

xslugx

sr. member

Activity: 293

Merit: 250

Quote from: bryant.coleman on February 24, 2016, 09:46:30 AM

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 05:57:05 AM

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

Obviously. Because Socialism is the worst thing ever whereas Capitalism is plain Heaven!

Damn I don't understand, why are people like you staying in EU?
You wanna free capitalism? Go to the USA! They'll have exactly what you want! low immigration, death penalty, gun freedom, no social healthcare or welfare...

valta4065

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Quote from: mainpmf on February 24, 2016, 08:29:37 AM

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 06:27:18 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 24, 2016, 05:48:02 AM

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares? Roll Eyes

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

I don't understand why France tolerate all this shit...

We should rule over the whole EU. Making it a federal state. Who could stop us?

It would indeed be a solution.

Napoleon would probably cry given how France bow in front of parasites like Ireland, Luxembourg or Switzerland given our current power.
But no, as our politicians are all corupted and weak they prefer continue to steal the French to give money to some big companies and small countries...

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 05:57:05 AM

Sounds good but actually not entirely true. I can write only about Hungary, but I've heard about the same issues in Poland as well. The healthcare and education system is deteriorating since we joined the EU as all the highly skilled doctors and nurses moved to the west. Agriculture is now in the hands of a few oligarchs as the farmers and small agro-businesses were unable to compete against the much more subsidized Austrian, French and German farmers. Local industry practically disappeared as skilled workers also went to the western countries and local workshops are only manufacturing some small scale but complicated and work intensive parts for big western corporations. Apart from a thin middle and upper class living standards are actually going down since the early 2000s. There are more malnourished child and pensioner today than 20 years ago. Also a lot more people living under the official poverty threshold limit than back in the 90's.

I didn't said that the EU accession of the former Warsaw Pact was 100% positive. It was more like 80% positive, and 20% negative. Obviously, when you are transforming from the Communist / Socialist system to the Capitalist system, the oligarchs will be able to steal a large chunk of the national wealth. This has happened in almost all the countries, including Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, Poland, and Hungary. Perhaps Belarus is the only exception because it is still under a dictatorship.

Emigration of skilled workers is a major issue, but there are partial solutions to resolve this. For example, to compensate the doctors and other healthcare workers who are migrating to the Western European nations, you can import physicians from Ukraine and Serbia. Factory workers can be sourced from Moldova and Macedonia.

And I strongly suspect that the fall in living standards might be because of the emigration of the middle class. The government should encourage them to return, with their hard earned money. Hungary won't be as expensive as England or Germany. The returnees will be able to live much more comfortably, than they are doing currently.

mainpmf

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 06:27:18 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 24, 2016, 05:48:02 AM

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares? Roll Eyes

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

I don't understand why France tolerate all this shit...

We should rule over the whole EU. Making it a federal state. Who could stop us?

hugoworld

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Quote from: Vika NSFW on February 22, 2016, 04:55:55 PM

They can eat shit and die too.

hahahha, yes absolutely , defition of my thought.. united kingdom is one of the evil powers of the world.. it can eat its own shit i dont care..

Snail2

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As an Eastern European immigrant in the UK I'm in an interesting position, but I think the UK would do better outside of the EU. The Brexit doesn't mean a war against the rest of Europe, just returning to the original "peaceful consistence" concept. I guess nobody want to suspend trading and business, especially because of the EU would lost more on such an economic conflict. BTW if the UK no longer have to pay EU budget contributions and "benefit tourists" from the EU, that means a lot of money would stay here to deal with the potential negative effects.

...and hopefully we could smoke in the pubs again

.

SimplisticStu

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Quote from: markj113 on February 24, 2016, 06:30:17 AM

Quote from: countryfree on February 23, 2016, 07:06:27 PM

The UK needs the EU much more now than when it joined in 1973. Just look at trade data. The UK alone cannot even feed its population. If all trade with the EU would stop, the British would starve to death. That won't happen of course, it just means the UK must have good relations with its major trade partners.

Dont forget we import and as much as we export, joint trade is still in everyone's best interest and will continue.

AGREED.......UK's export is worth approx £330 billion ($460b) whereas UK's import is worth approx £449 billion ($625b) (as of 2015) some of that trade may suffer as a result of leaving the EU but I believe plenty of it would remain and additional trades would be created.

markj113

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Quote from: Snail2 on February 24, 2016, 06:27:18 AM

Quote from: valta4065 on February 24, 2016, 05:48:02 AM

And without EU we would probably already have a WWIII, but who cares? Roll Eyes

Why we would have a WW3? Half of the european countries would go bankrupt, maybe in eastern europe some leaders would try to resolve social problems by warming up some old grievances, in western and southern europe some minorities would go for independence, but all of these issues would be only a bunch of limited local conflict. Russia and Germany would be busy with picking up the pieces and the US-UK duo would be also occupied with dealing with the fallout and securing north africa and the oil around. I think nobody would have the money and time to start a big war.

So you are saying the UK should remain in the EU and keep handing out billions of £'s along with Germany and France just to appease the scrounging eastern Europeans to prevent them starting wars?

markj113

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Quote from: countryfree on February 23, 2016, 07:06:27 PM

The UK needs the EU much more now than when it joined in 1973. Just look at trade data. The UK alone cannot even feed its population. If all trade with the EU would stop, the British would starve to death. That won't happen of course, it just means the UK must have good relations with its major trade partners.

Dont forget we import and as much as we export, joint trade is still in everyone's best interest and will continue.

Topic: Are you with or against "the U.K. quits the European Union" ? - page 10. (Read 8205 times)