Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 14. (Read 34677 times)

tvbcof rambles on about process (ignoring the upthread post I made documenting how the NV constitution not agreeing with the US constitution was due to political corruption) while ignoring the fundamental right of the sovereign individual. And still hasn't proposed a single solution for the creeping enslavement of the world in corrupt political process.

There is no solution that these Socialists can offer because they disrespect "renewing the tree of liberty by spilling some blood" which our forefathers told us would be necessary. They will ride the Titanic political corruption down to the bottom of the abyss. I have my popcorn ready. It won't be long now. Just a few more years before I can laugh at them wallowing in pain caused by political process corruption.

There is no way to reason with Socialist and Communist pigs. They actually believe they are more civilized. They are even under the delusion and think they are winning the debate. They are very proud of themselves. So let them kill themselves. Just opt-out of their system.

The solution for this will soon be available.


P.S. they never learn. They will erroneously blame their suffering on the militias, on Russia, on China, on N. Korea, etc.. instead of blaming themselves for not standing up for the sovereign individual and instead supporting collective slavery.


Amazing the slaves even think they are supposed to pay taxes and fees for using land. They actually demand to be slaves.

They would be very uncomfortable the coming post-resource scarcity world that I am helping to create.

I am bored with these small minds. I don't sweat the little things. There are bigger fish to fry.

I thought sovereigns were men and women that didn't accept the creepy 14th amendment to the Constitution as valid and reject the notion that they're "persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof".

The legal definition of the word "person" is rather disturbing.

I believe he readily acknowledges not paying the land fees ?  Says he'll pay NV if they'd bill him.  IMO just an excuse.  All bums have excuses/rationalizations for their behavior.  Some are reasonable, some are nonsensical.  I get it though, no one wants to pay taxes. 

All sources I have seen that mention fines, none of them approach $640 million.  So I have no clue what you are referring to, but yes that would be excessive if true.

I just read an amusing article on Forbes about 'sovereign citizens'.  The description of their 'research' matches very well what I've seen on this thread and in other venues over the decades.

Now, of course, Forbes is the epitome of propaganda for the general public.  They would like to get me all riled up about the dangerous menace of 'sovereign citizens', but I'm not buying it.  I know how these people think (erratically) and how popular their ideas are going to be in any conceivable social grouping.  That is, not very.  They'll be marginalized immediately.  But I'm not the audience that the Forbes's of our world targets and I've no doubt that their propaganda will be highly effective.

If the 'sovereign citizen' bunch were a little more 'cerebral' maybe they wouldn't stick their heads directly into the trap.  Oh well.

---

I do have some concerns about 'sovereign citizens' in that it is logically consistent (in a twisted way) that if someone is 'sovereign' then they can work for some other group (like the Feds) as mercenaries of sorts.  In this way they can enjoy goodies which make them happy (e.g., free ammo) with a clear conscience.

Of course different people have different tastes.  Our friend Annoyneymint, for instance, might enjoy an endless supply of free wives from a pool of the adolescent daughters captured from 'the Communists.'

Do you have any evidence to prove that he didn't paid his taxes? And what about the $640 million fine imposed upon him by the Bureau of Land Management? Don't you think that is way too excessive?

You can also do a lot of research and still be wrong because of your own internal biases you are not aware of.

I read multiple articles/videos.  The guy is just a typical entitled american with a bit more brains than the rest because he was able to manipulate the idiots to rally behind his cause.


I'd fight for him too... If I was under the impression I'd be able to ranch 900 head of cattle on government land without even paying ag-use property taxes.

This country has too many f***ing freeloaders.

Point taken. Fools do research before posting. Got it.

You'd be a bigger fool than the tools who showed up if you spend hours researching this guy's situation.  Everyone wants something for free.  900 cattle is near a million dollars.  I wish I had free land like that around here to use.  Who wouldn't ?

No doubt the culmination of many hours of exhaustive research on the subject.

You've stated my position better than even I could!  My position is that everyone should remain calm and cerebral.  I only hope that people do not close their minds to things just because they are unpleasant.  Rather, they analyze things and choose the best course of action noting that there are some significant challenges ahead.

Flying into some (probably adversary induced) tizzy and hurdling a large majority of people directly into the arms of the adversary for protection is exactly NOT the right thing to do.  It is 'lunacy'.

The guy is a freeloading bum.  Give me a place to run 900 head of cattle without paying any taxes/fees.  He's not a hero, he just manipulated a bunch of tools to come out and support him.

...actually you're the one who suggested that.



Your stance seems very bizarre. Pretty much a "whatever, so what if .gov wants to smoke a few buildings in NY with people in them." Shit happens.

Also  you didn't address the actual question about why you think the militia guys are "loons" given the events that have transpired. Is it your position that everyone should just remain calm and cerebral while federals slaughter people in American cities en masse, use it for the basis for global war(conducted against nation states not even accused of attacking us), and steal Constitutionally protected rights? You do realize not everyone drinks fluoride all day and night right? Some guys get downright annoyed when walmart greeters turned TSA Nazis grope their wives and children at nonsensical airport checkpoints.

Ah, that makes more sense.  It seemed wildly inconsistent that you would believe all that you profess to believe about the central govt yet have that attitude about 9/11.  So lemme explain:

Firstly, as I mentioned before, in the scheme of things relative to historic actions, 9/11 was 'no big deal'.  This is even more the case if some parts of the actual human damage component were a fabrication.  It was whipped up into the biggest event in world history, but that would be what one would expect given the goals of the project.

As I've stated before, and a point we seem to disagree on, I see the government (all branches and levels) as being a vast majority just normal and decent people.  There is no need to watch them all as you've suggested, because there is nothing to find.

In the case of 9/11, I think it could be achieved by maybe a few dozen people who are formally 'in the government'.  After the event many more people would need to be hooked into the loop, but at that point what real choice do they have?  Even if they would not have supported it, the deed was done and the most common sense path forward was to make the best of it and keep one's mouth shut.  A larger number probably did see the utility of the project.  I can make a pretty strong argument that our nation is better prepared for the 2000's due to actions made possible by the 9/11 event (though I'll not completely agree with the arguments and will have counter-arguments.)

Since I am not a fundamentalist I have no real problem supporting the people and projects of the federal governments which make sense.  Most of their projects and org structures and so on actually do make sense to me.  And I expect that some decent fraction of federal government employees would do the right thing in the right set of circumstances.  (I hope so at least and I am sort of counting on it.)

As I've alluded to, I see the future as probably having an abrupt step function event.  I see it as a losing strategy to do much of anything except engage in certain kinds of preparation prior to such an event.  It's what happens after such an event that will be the defining factor in how our history is written.

What? I said nothing of the sort.

I'm saying that because it WAS a false flag committed on such a grand scale and in such an audacious manner, that the militia guys hardly seem like loons to me for reacting the way they have since and I'm trying to get at why you seem to think they're loons if you agree that 9/11 was an inside job.

Among the reasons, they tend to believe certain things fundamentally and completely and don't see a need to explore things beyond something they choose to believe.  Or are told to believe in most cases.  Most of them really don't seem to have the basic skill-set to do otherwise.

I, of course, didn't believe anything other than what was initially presented about the 9/11 events (though from knowing something about demolishion I was thoroughly surprised that the collapses happened at all when the three buildings came down later that day.)

A few weeks after the event some French guy produced some photos which were of the Pentagon part of the event which piqued my interest since it was pretty clear that if the images were not totally fake, there was no way a commercial airliner hit the building.  From there I exposed myself to a lot of information that people were producing (much of it rubbish.)  By this time I am quite confident that the event was engineered.  It is simply hands down the strongest explanation for all of the observations across the physical and political spectrum.

Much of the Snowden material which was leaked had been leaked in dribs and drabs prior to Snowden himself.  It fit into a body of 'conspiracy theories' which I considered neither true nor false but worthy of analysis.  Once such element of that body is that there is has been for some time an active program of deception using various staged events.  Some of the techniques are borrowed from Hollywood which is on the forefront of making fictional things seem realistic, and the media which who's job it is to present the public with things that they are supposed to be believing.

We do not really know that 'nearly 3000 people' died in the events of 9/11.  That event has gone amazingly unstudied by either government bodies, the court system, or mainstream media.  I've no doubt that some people died, but...

...lets say that 3000 Americans died on 9/11.  It was clear that that many were going to die in an adventure such as Iraq, and many more than that would be maimed.  And that's not even counting Iraqis.  Yet our leadership did everything to enter the adventure anyway in spite of having to know that the excuses for going (Saddam's threat to us) were complete and utter bullshit.  So, the people in leadership positions are demonstrably willing to sacrifice many American lives to achieve a political objective.

You are saying that because 3000 lives were lost that proves that 9/11 could not be a false flag.  Period.  End of story.  I'm saying it's not that clear-cut to me in the mode which I think.

I must have read that wrong. This is not the gulf of tonkin incident, or even the regime deliberately allowing the bombing of pearl harbor and then feigning surprise to drag the isolationists along for WWII. We're talking about the deliberate slaughter of nearly 3000 humans in New York city. If you believe as I do that this was yet another false flag attack, then how are the militia guys loons?

Fine with me.


I call 9/11 a false flag operation.  It is very difficult to call it anything other than that after analyzing things a bit.

Most people who've looked into things much are wise enough to keep their mouth shut about it, but as with my attitude about having credibility with the militia loons, I don't really care that much.

9/11 was an engineering solution to a political problem.  It's a tried-n-true method of achieving a political direction that our leaderships wanted to take the nation.  The U.S. certainly didn't pioneer the technique.  It's probably more common than not in achieving shifts in public sentiment, and probably somewhere near 100% of the wars of aggression were touched off by a similarly engineered event.  Both in modern times and in antiquity.  It's nothing more than an extension of some tribal elder sitting around the fire and telling his clan some lie about what some other clan did to them in order to induce them to cooperate in a particular action.

So, in my opinion, you cannot really completely reject a government for one event which is neither anything which they've not done before nor that nearly every other government has done and will do in the future.  The alternative action could well be worse.  The most logical course of action is to work to try to make it so that other similar engineered events are less likely to result in harm to the society, and that would be more effective working within it in some cases.  Certainly including this case at this time.

When you call the militia guys "loons" you lose credibility imo. This nation is plainly in decline. The USD is plainly losing it's status as the world reserve currency. This nation is plainly being governed by people that don't believe in Constitutional law, yet swear oaths to defend the Constitution. Cute terms like "living" Constitution are used to justify this lapse...which frankly amounts to treason. Is it possible the "loons" are seeing the same information you are...have the same concerns you've had for 15yrs, but instead of simply prepping and complaining are already past their breaking point?

As far as jolts go, what would you call sept 11, 2001 which was the justification for wars on many fronts as well as the seizing of many liberties on the domestic front. What about the banking collapse and subsequent TBTF bailouts? The federals saw fit to print a whole mess of fascinating $100 bills all dated 2009 and then pretend as though they didn't exist. When that charade failed they then pretended as though they were misprinted and therefore couldn't be deployed. You can't even make this stuff up.

Actually, I'm not commenting any more for two reasons:

(1) tvbcof is schooling you more eloquently and with better humour than I have the time or inclination to do.

(2) Reminding myself that ignorant, violent, selfish thugs like Bundy & gang are able to walk into a shop, buy some guns ("mah raaaghts!"), and threaten to shoot up civilians and government employees if they don't get to break the law (in the 21^st century) makes me depressed.

I've held more or less the same basic concerns with varying degrees of agitation for about 15 years now.  Intellectually I always told myself that things can persist in a steady state for longer than expected.  Steady-state in today's America is not all bad.  We win some and lose some and the world turns.  I believe we are generally on the descent (empire building, extrajudicial killings and gulags around the world, increased stratification and various levels here at home, etc.)  Many of the most dangerous losses are hidden beneath the surface (e.g., the domestic surveillance frameworks, 'fusion centers', etc) which, if anything, makes them more of a threat.

I theorize that there will probably be a step function event that will shift American society sharply.  Most likely it will be an economic jolt of some sort, and will be more-or-less out of the blue...or will seem that way to most people.

At such a point it will be imperative (for us citizens) to have every tool possible at our disposal.  This includes communications abilities (e.g., something like today's internet), economic abilities (e.g., something like today's Bitcoin), and yes, the means of violent resistance if it is unavoidable that the least-bad option (e.g., today's freedom to keep and bear arms.)

(As an aside, I'd further note that it's the potential for violent resistance which is the real value here.  It acts as a very real limit on the flexibility of what a central government can do on various fronts since the cost in terms of support would be huge.  Tactically any arms we might possess are of limited value.  Strategically they have much more value.)

I don't know when a jolt such as I've mentioned will occur, and hope it never does.  If/when it does, it could be decades away (or it could be tomorrow.)  I will say that one of the things I look for as an indicator that such a jolt may be approaching are attacks on the three areas I mentioned.  And others.

When the militia loons shoot their wad over some inconsequential deadbeat rancher like Bundy I don't consider it all bad.  These types are what I would consider a liability.  I don't trust them and I'm happy to be rid of them.  If anything I suspect that they are the types that could be flipped by the Govt and become part of the problem (in the form of death squads and such which our govt is demonstrable fond of employing.)  The trouble is that they take a lot of our otherwise needed tools with them.