Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 17. (Read 34677 times)

Ranchers and Empire in the American West

 The militarized siege of a cattle ranch near Bunkerville, Nevada has drawn national attention as dozens of federal agents, armed with machine guns, sniper rifles, helicopters, and more, have descended on the ranch to seize cattle, people, and generally show everyone who’s boss.

The conservative press has framed the story in a variety of ways, casting the story both as matter of outright federal seizure of private land, and as an absurd environmental crusade to save a tortoise from extinction.

The reality looks to be a little murkier, however, as is often the case when dealing with land ownership in the American West. Back in September, the Las Vegas Sun reported on the Bundy family and noted that troubles began 20 years ago when the family’s patriarch unilaterally determined that he would no longer pay the Bureau of Land Management use fees that have long been required to graze on federal lands. The exact legal and historical details of the Bundy family’s case will emerge slowly over time, but even if the family is completely in the wrong legally (which it probably is), it’s safe to say that taxpayer dollars might be better spent on things other than a shock and awe campaign waged against a tiny ranch in the middle of a Nevada desert. Nonetheless, this is just the latest dispute in a long history of ranchers jockeying with the Federal government over land use permits and land use regulations.[1]

While those who are unfamiliar with land use in the West may see this as some sort of new dastardly deed on the part of the federal government, it is in fact the case that leasing federal land for grazing (among many other things) has been the status quo in the West for more than a century, and the federal government has owned at least 40 percent or more of the land in many Western states ever since it was annexed to the United States in the nineteenth century. In fact, the nation’s 13 Western states are home to 93 percent of federal land, with two-thirds of all land in Utah, and 81 percent of all land in Nevada owned by the feds....

http://mises.org/daily/6723/Ranchers-and-Empire-in-the-American-West


81 percent of Navada owned by the feds?
I don't think that is what the founding fathers (and the 10th amendment) had in mind.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

Generative essence of why humans prefer slavery

Let's reduce this Bundy ranch debate to its generative essence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/26/us-korea-north-usa-idUSBREA3P02U20140426


Obama's rhetoric above cloaks the true meaning which is that world government is "greater opportunity, and greater security, and greater respect" than sovereign countries, counties, and individuals.

The powers-that-be create a conflict (China supporting N. Korean and USA supporting S. Korea) in order to frighten individuals and cause them to think a world government is necessary for security. The powers-that-be are doing it again with China threatening the Philippines over the Spratly islands and the Philippines taking their claim to UN tribunal.

What Obama's rhetoric doesn't reveal is that instead of a diversity of sovereign countries, counties, and individuals (which includes allowing individuals to express and live their own opinions of diverse issues such as race, work ethics, and marriage), the world government means all that freedom of expression and life will be subjected to the will of those powers-that-be who manage the world 'democracy' by promising the people everything, manipulating 75% of their emotions, and taking everything for themselves. This is how the power vacuum of 'democracy' has always worked and will always work.

Upthread we have Communists who vehemently express their hatred of diversity of expression and life. They prefer a society that is top-down managed, so the powers-that-be can enforce all their control-freak pet peeves they want the community enslaved within.

The subconscious (root) motivation of these upthread antagonists is they won't want to see anyone have something they don't, i.e. jealousy. They convince themselves they are fighting for the good of all, but the truth is they are subconsciously jealous that individuals could compete and excel without their control over them via their powers-that-be proxy.

So I don't want to speak to these brain-dead antagonists who throughout history have destroyed themselves in repeating bouts of economic gridlock collapse and megadeath.

I speak today to those who want to opt-out of their killing machine.

Join me. I have the solution.

I'm ceasing debate with the antagonists. Their fate is sealed.


Edit:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/11/socialism-at-its-best-how-to-destroy-the-wealth-of-a-nation/

http://rt.com/usa/154940-cliven-bundy-responds-racism-accusations/

After Cliven Bundy's words of wisdom about 'the negro', things have shifted in an amusing way.  There has been an exodus of support of biblical proportions, but a Google news search will still pull up some dead-enders trying to support his cause.  Mostly trying to show that he's not a racist.  I thought I'd help them out a bit:

---

Consider this: Cliven Bundy's assertions that 'the negro's" problems stem from never having learned to pick cotton cannot be taken as a sign of racism because he himself is not a cotton farmer.  Indeed, he raises melons and brings the price down for black people everywhere! 

On just cannot argue with facts like this.

That may be true, or Santilli's fax to the FBI handler may be legit, but both things being true simultaneously does not seem likely off hand.

Your assertion is interesting.  If you produce any leads that I could follow up on which would provide observations to balance against the hypothesis, I'd probably be interested enough to follow some of them since it these things have grabbed my attention lately.

Keeping up with the bickering in this thread is exhausting... Some people are far too eager to hand over the liberties of themselves and others.

I won't go further into my up-thread post directed at Nolo. It's apparent that we have far different ideas about what constitutes the legitimacy of law. I simply agree to disagree and my opinion is based on the spirit of the Supreme Law of our land and the intentions behind its very creation. I refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of laws which are contradictory to the establishment of a Free State and to the preservation of a Free Society.

While I concede that much of this situation in Nevada is enacted under the color of law, I must also mention that the law has been responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of millions of innocent men, women, and children throughout the world in the last centuy. I also believe that the law has mutated and twisted apart from the wholesome purpose for which it was conceptualized. I believe that our actions will change the world for better or for worse and inaction is merely an action which opposes your own cause.

Those who support the spirit of our Constitution will understand what I'm writing while those who don't must take offense to the idea of omission from subjugation by willful disobedience.

The Federal Government may claim and assert power outside the borders of those granted by the Constitution, the Government can enforce those assertions with the force of law. Those assertions will never become lawful, robbing the freedom from a society is never consensual, no matter how much propaganda they feed the masses. The people will always hold the power to give and the power to take from the Government that which best serves the people.

As far as the future of our country and of the world as we know it; the outlook is bleak.

This disparity of core ideology can only lead to civil war if left unchallenged...

This isn't the same as a disagreement over gay rights, abortion, or even gun rights. This can't be voted on... It makes no difference how many people agree or disagree with the ideology because you cannot kill an idea. If the government kills every defender to the cause of Liberty and Equality then the idea will resound in the children, friends, and relatives and the desires of those left behind who seek justice. This is a cycle similar to an economic bubble... The market can collapse, but you can't kill it as long as people survive with the desire to use it.

Liberty is truth, you cannot be unenlightened... The truth will remain the truth long after the deaths of all those who might tell of it and the human desire for truth will always seek it out.

I think we are already in a civil war. Look at the way we've been waging wars recently; targets are selected from a pool of targets and then eliminated remotely by drone strike. There is no exchange of gunfire, no armies fighting each other for ground. Picking targets out of society and removing them under the force of some arbitrary law serves the same purpose as killing them. I disagree with any law which might be used to suppress an individual or remove them from society without a criminal offense. The escalation of this system into conventional civil war is inevitable.

Pete Santilli, Adam Kokesh, and Mark "Dice" (I'll give you one guess as to where his pseudonym comes from) are all Marines from Camp Pendleton 3rd Civil Affairs Group (psyop unit).

Last night I discovered a whole ecosystem that I was only really dimly aware of at best.  That is, these 'guerrilla' journalists/talking-head/conspiracy-theorist types and the media platform network that they use.

In particular I was listening to one 'faction' of them and a little tussle with another faction.  Specifically, some woman named Susanne Posel who researched a fax which (supposedly) Anonymous pulled out of the ether from another guy named Santilli who has a show on Rense who apparently has a genuine network supporting a number of such individuals and their shows.  The fax purports to be from Santilli to the FBI regarding a covert operation involving fomenting some trucker's march on Washington or some such.

The interesting thing is that apparently Santilli is especially active in trying to stir up his listernership to pick up their guns and head to Bundy's place.  I ran across this because some of the Bundy supporters were warning other of the Bundy supporters to be careful with Santilli.

Interesting stuff actually.  Does the central government have any involvement with this ecosystem or use them in one manner or another?  Dunno.  It's certainly a strong enough hypothesis to consider as observations come in.  It is effectively a matter of fact that there does exist software which is designed to sway public opinion using social media, and that it has been acquired by (if not designed for) various branches of the central government.  And if they are willing to go that far, then various other operations such as manipulation of fringe media outlets certainly does not seem very far-fetched.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: You talk out your arse
From:    Practical Dreamer
Date:    Thu, April 24, 2014 7.30 pm
To:      "N" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




 Martin -

         how are you finding freedom after your 8 years of porridge ? Very regrettable all that wasn't it - I do hope the shower block didn't prove to be too painful an experience for you ?
   Still, you managed to keep hold of your multi million dollar stash that you had the foresight and strength of will to steal from unwitting "sheep" Ha Ha  

    Still up to old tricks I see.

    Please help me save me from myself Martin - if you do I will hang on your every word just the same as your sycophantic sociopathic acolyte Anonymint does [you aren't the same person are you ? Ha Ha].

    What exactly was the nature of your relationship with Alan Walters, Martin ? He made a right fuck up as adviser to Margaret Thatcher - citizens of the UK are still paying the price for his/her mistakes to this day.
     Was it, as I would like to believe, that you were fortunate enough to have your photo taken with the man once whilst he'd had a glass too much port at the 1987 1922 Committee Xmas bash - and so you subsequently used that photo, quite rightly, to hoodwink unwitting arseholes sheep into believing you had some kind of clout with TPTB ?

     You are increasingly coming to sound like Nietschze as he approached madness Martin - but I do hope you can hold off the demons long enough to receive your Nobel Prize in Economics Ha Ha   - oh, and scam enough sheep to satiate your appetite for gold, which I know you have a particular penchant for.

Thus spoke Zarathustra Martin  

   All the best

         Practical Dreamer
        

Sent to the author of a blog you should make sure you are reading:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/armstrong_economics_blog/

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: People aren't sheep, rather they love Communism
From:    AnonyMint
Date:    Thu, April 24, 2014 12:31 pm
To:      "N" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin,

You recently wrote that the people are sheep and can only see as far as
the rear-end of the sheep next to them.

I am sorry but after writing in public forums since 2005, you are wrong.

Roughly 75% of the poeple love Communism (see the survey linked in the
following bitcointalk post). Here read this exchange in the Bundy ranch
thread and tell me it isn't so?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6373991

So that is why your idea of spreading the word won't stop the coming
collapse.

I wish you would admit this publicly.

At this point, what we need to be doing is figuring out how to opt-out of
the coming collapse so we can eat popcorn while it crashes and burns.

I am asserting that a superior crypto-currency is going to play a vital role.

Ok, you've graduated to full-on crazy now. Go post in one of Actor_Tom_Truong's threads, he'll help you prepare for your final battle against the thirteen european bloodlines of the illuminati terrorists. Let us know how it goes!

All New England Could Fit on BLM Land in Nevada; BLM Owns 0 Acres in New England

The acreage the federal Bureau of Land Management currently owns in the state of Nevada is more than all the land in all of the states of New England combined, according to data published by the Congressional Research Service.

By contrast, the BLM does not own a single acre of land in any New England state.

New England, according to the Census Bureau, consists of six states: Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. Together, these states encompass 40,400,640 acres.



Nevada contains a total of 70,264,320 acres. Of these, the federal government owns 56,961,778 acres, or 81.1 percent of the state. That leaves only 13,302,542, or 18.9 percent of the state for owners other than the federal government.

The federal government, in other words, owns more than four times as much land in Nevada as all other land owners combined.

Of the 56,961,778 acres of Nevada owned by the federal government, the BLM controls 47,805,923 acres. That is about 84 percent of the federally land in the state and 68 percent of all the land in the state.


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/all-new-england-could-fit-blm-land-nevada-blm-owns-0-acres-new

Former BLM Director Pat Shea challenged state Rep. Ken Ivory, R-West Jordan, to a formal debate at the University of Utah’s Hinckley Institute of Politics, and the lawmaker said he would accept such a challenge.

Wednesday’s conversation identified the deep philosophical disagreement that would underpin any such debate. Ivory argues the federal government used to own much of the land in states like Florida, Illinois and Nebraska and has since turned it over to private owners or the state. He believes it’s time for Western states to demand equal treatment in this matter and if Congress won’t comply, it may be time to launch a major court case. He said the land would be better managed and the profits from mining would help fund the state’s education system.

Shea was dismissive of such an idea.

"I don’t think states are capable of the complexity of managing these lands," he said, accusing Ivory of inflaming local officials to challenge federal land managers when the chances of the state’s gaining control of these lands are remote at best.

The standoff in Nevada between BLM officials and rancher Cliven Bundy served as a backdrop to this philosophical discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_Mqkpivcg&feature=share

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57855791-90/state-federal-blm-lands.html.csp

You socialist pigs better understand the chaos you are up against (which no one will be able to stop).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCCcQ2agms#t=65

Listen carefully.

BUNDY FAMILY SAYS 'EUTHANIZED' CATTLE SHOT MULTIPLE TIMES



Ammon Bundy, son of embattled Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, said some of the dead cattle the family found after the federal government backed down from a tense standoff over a week ago had been shot as many as five times – seemingly more than necessary to kill the animals.

“Well we know that two bulls were shot. And the one that they threw up in the mountain, Nickelcrick, he had a shot from above. He was shot by helicopter, but then he had four other shots to him as well. It looks like a fun shoot,” said the younger Bundy adding, “One hit him in the head and it ripped his whole face up. It was almost like a fun shoot. I didn’t know how or what was going on, but then one was definitely from the top down. Its pretty good proof that what happened in the helicopter that did that one.”

A BLM contractor hired to round up the animals did not respond to a voicemail about the allegations. A spokesman for the BLM did not respond to a request for comment.

Helicopters are often used during cattle roundups and their use for this activity is controversial. The Associated Press reported in June of 2013 that the BLM was taking comments and suggestions about its proposal to use helicopters to help gather wild horses over the next two years. Bundy described how he thinks the helicopter roundup killed Bundy Ranch cattle.
“Since Saturday they were in gathering this cattle by helicopter. They were pushing them all. When you do it that way, it was 90 degrees that week—in the 90’s, those cattle run too hard and it’s very difficult on them and they’ll overheat and die, but also this is calving season right now,” said Bundy. “So these cows are aborting their calves and they’re also separating their newborn babies from their mothers.”

Bundy believes that is the reason why the ranch has at least 27 calves that they know of that were separated from their mothers. At this point, the ranch staff and the family can’t find the mothers to the calves.
“So there’s that issue, because its just inhumane how they gathered the cattle. We do it through a trapping process. It’s very humane to them,” he said.

Several of animals inside the enclosures at the Bundy ranch appeared to have their hides torn and limped along due to injuries to their legs. Bundy claims the injuries to the cattle were caused by “contract cowboys” dragging the animals.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/04/23/Bundy-Family-Accuses-BLM-Of-Unnecessary-Shots

A female US Air Force veteran of 9 years, explains what is going on very well.


Tell that to Hitler and the next European tyrant (Putin?) coming like him very soon, because you socialists fucks don't grasp the pathology of your philosophy.


You are ignorant. Learn who Sheriff Mack is and learn what the proper role of the Sheriff is in our Constitutional form of government:

http://www.amazon.com/The-County-Sheriff-Americas-Last/dp/B002PKCMFO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mack
http://sheriffmack.com/
http://cspoa.org/category/sheriff-richard-mack/


Only you getting more pathological in your attempt to spin his correct statements.

Socialist megakillers such as yourself always think they are innocent and don't understand the pathology of their collective philosophy.

There is no way to reason with you chattel. We must opt-out of your hell and watch you fuck yourselves.


You make me puke. You don't deserve America (U.S.A.), rather you deserve Amerika (U.S.S.A - United Socialist States of Amerika).

I will be very happy when you and I no longer share the same citizenship.

I am not going to repeat the Constitutional points already made, because you are never going to defend the Constitution.

So just go on and continue the slide into the hell you deserve.

We will find a way to opt-out of your hell and laugh at you.


Indeed there is war being incited between the Communist/Fascists which is about 75% of the population, and the remaining Constitutionalists which is 25% or less of the population.

We Constitionalists will lose the country, but we will gain the victory where it matters most by opting out in way that you can't touch us and then we will watch you fucks crash and burn.

I have my popcorn ready.

---

Everything Bundy was quoted as saying was entirely accurate. And I am not racist. I grew up in black neighborhoods, the mother of my kids has dark brown skin, etc..

There is absolutely no reason for him to back down to pussies like you who want him to lie about the facts.

Upthread you accused him of having his kids on welfare, I challenged you to cite proof, and now we see Bundy is criticizing welfare.

Upthread you wussies said what if blacks in inner cities stood up to the Feds, and I said they don't have any property to defend because they don't work, and they receive instead lots of goodies from the Feds and the Feds are not taking from them.

In fact, the Bible says you can take a slave for 7 years (because the slave deserves it for not producing and being in debt either individually or collectively through allowing and not standing up to big government). And all your wussies are going to end up as slaves (you already are slaves to the Feds), because you refuse to stand up for your liberty, private property rights, individual and local community sovereignty, etc..

Instead you will ride the collective Titanic debt+big government (central banks, etc) machine into its periodic megadeath and slavery end game.

Now I am not saying that all blacks behave that way. Sure there are blacks who excel, and there are also many whites who now leech on the welfare State.

---

You got a bunch of pussies like you who caved into the Feds. They don't like it, but they are too scared to fight.

Indeed most of the world right now deserves the Armageddon that is coming to them, because they refuse to put their lives on the line to stand their ground.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson