Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 10. (Read 34677 times)

Now that I'm somewhat interested, I looked into things even more last night.

What, exactly, is Bundy's ranch is somewhat obscured.  I didn't look real hard, but I think it's pretty clear that it is the large place downriver from where 170 hooks back to I-15.  Nice spread!  Swimming pool, tennis court, private lake with an island, etc.  A true oasis in the desert!  The junkyard to the northeast seems to be where the ag work happens, and it looks like that is as close as militia clown-central is allowed to the heart of Bundy's estate which itself seems to have professional security outside of the gate.

   Bundy's Melon patch (?)

Bundy's progeny maintain blogs to document their success at enlarging the herd.  The several of them that I ran across almost by accident are:

  http://bundychompings.blogspot.com/ daughter-in-law, Ryans wife
  http://joshandbay.blogspot.com/ daughter

There are various photos of Cliven himself and his spread scattered among other typical family pics.  And fun little stories about how the Devil backed up the family's sewer and such-like.

I was interested to find out of Bundy was a fundy Mormon.  There are arguments both ways, but at this point I find the strongest argument to be that he and his fam are not.  I estimate that they are typical Mormons and like typical Mormons having boat-loads of kids is an important part of their existence.  That does NOT in and of itself make them polygamists or whatever.

In an interview with Ryan, he relayed a story about when he was a kid, Cliven purchased 1000 head of cattle from Mexico.  Since he was planning to run them on some of the worst land in the world (which was not even his in the first place) he, unsurprisingly, lost his ass and couldn't even afford to send his kids to school with lunch.  Ryan claims that Cliven dumped Ryan's mom because she wanted 'welfare' for her kids to eat.  I suspect that it might have something to do with the fact that the old heifer was throwing freaks and Cliven decided to get a new one, but of course it's hard to know.

Cliven's fortunes seem to have changed when he switched from accepting welfare in the form of highly subsidized land and started to just trespass and steal resources outright.  It is often said that all the other ranchers were run out by the evil government.  It s seems highly possible that other ranchers who were not comfortable stealing found it hard to compete with the Bundy clan and the Bundys themselves are a big part of the problem.

Ryan's argument is that the 'fees' charged by the BLM are not fees for the actual vegetation and water, but are rather 'ranch management' fees and the family does not need the Govt to tell him how to run a ranch so they didn't 'sign a contract'.  This is obviously absurd.  True, Bundy seems to have learned that running 1000 cattle on the BLM land makes them starve and cost him money and he lowered his head-count somewhat.  The fact is, though, that it's the BLM's land and THEY get to decide what the head-count per area unit is.  Again, that's what happens when one owns something.  Sad day for Bundy.

Some people have produced info that appears to implicate Reid in various land dealings in the immediate area.  Notwithstanding that a lot of this kind of 'conspiracy theory' stuff from the likes of Breightbart are complete rubbish, it would not surprise me in the least.  It looks to me like this might be a dick measuring contest between a couple of rich old Mormon guys who are _both_ effectively puppets of Koch brothers and their own interests.  That anyone should personally sacrifice anything for either of them demonstrates what idiots some people are.

 - edit: Koch, maps link, + minor

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean you're not surrounded by communists. In the US people think they're free, but they do not own their homes(they have warranty deeds), their children are sent to federally controlled education facilities, and they have no representation in government.

Everything is designed to give the illusion of freedom and choice, but when you get right down to it, there's very little of either.

McCarthyism

"McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism."[1] The term has its origins in the period in the United States known as the Second Red Scare, lasting roughly from 1950 to 1956 and characterized by heightened political repression against communists, as well as a fear campaign spreading paranoia of their influence on American institutions and espionage by Soviet agents. Originally coined to criticize the anti-communist pursuits of U.S. Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin, "McCarthyism" soon took on a broader meaning, describing the excesses of similar efforts. The term is also now used more generally to describe reckless, unsubstantiated accusations, as well as demagogic attacks on the character or patriotism of political adversaries.
 

I though you were going to 'opt-out' and go pump yourself or something.  Any day now.


Go for it.  Most of the mods don't read the this sub-forum, but they seem to enjoy a good laugh now and then.


It takes time and some pregnancies slip through the cracks which may explain why you are blessing us with your presence.

BTW, you said you spent some time in Texas but left.  At this point I gotta wonder if it might have been here.

Remember upthread you don't even know the difference between the definition of 'functioning' and 'operative'.

 

Communists always play the "you need a psychiatrist card" when they've lost the debate on the merits.

I wonder how much more queenie drivel we need to endure in this thread.


I am tempted to flag that post to moderator as being off-topic drivel and very insulting.

Communists always change the discussion away from the merits to some vendettas.

Inbreeding takes care of itself. I am not interested in legislating away the free will of people to destroy themselves. Communists on the other hand, think everything can be controlled by the State.

Agenda 21 is a monumental undertaking

Another land grab so soon?
Less than 2 days ago I was still hearing (on my radio) about the big one in Texas.
They have enough Federal land already.

Westerners fear Obama preparing monuments land grab

Washington » Just south of Canyonlands National Park, the redrock wonders merge into a scrubland oasis with a peak that juts 11,000 feet into the sky. Mesas and buttes provide panoramic views and canyons, and ancient cliff dwellings offer a unique retreat.

It’s a region that holds sacred and historic value to the Navajo Nation, which has pitched Congress on creating the Diné Bikéyah National Conservation Area to protect the 1.9 million acres in San Juan County from development. But as with most things involving Congress, inaction has been the order of the day.

Even as supporters of a conservation area remain hopeful, they’re ready for Plan B: Asking President Barack Obama for a national monument.

Willie Grayeyes, and other members of the nonprofit Utah Diné Bikéyah, traveled recently to Washington to lobby Interior Department officials to designate the region north of the San Juan River and just outside the Navajo Reservation as a monument.

"The Utah delegates are only fumbling the ball. They aren’t really tackling it," Grayeyes said. A monument is a logical fallback to congressional designation, under which many of the current uses could continue.

Obama already has named a handful of monuments across the country — using his unilateral power under the 1906 Antiquities Act — and has promised more.

"I’ll use my authority to protect more of our pristine federal lands for future generations," he said in his State of the Union address earlier this year.

That commitment has some in the West fearing more intrusion by the federal government into their backyard, undermining locally driven efforts to decide the future of public lands. That fear isn’t without precedent.

"It makes me worried that [the president will] just ignore the wishes of the people of Utah and just do what he wants to — like Clinton did," Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, said in a recent Salt Lake Tribune interview. "Sometimes he does act unilaterally."

Two months before his 1996 re-election, President Bill Clinton stood on the rim of the Grand Canyon in Arizona and declared 1.8 million acres of public land in Utah as the new Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. With a swipe of a pen, he canceled a proposed coal mine in what Hatch described then as the "mother of all land grabs."

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57892050-90/bishop-congress-lands-local.html.csp
 

I guess this is a pic of the Bundy clan.  It is removed from the article where Google first found it:

http://www.reviewjournal.com/sites/default/files/field/media/web1_bundy_040914JL_06_5.jpg



One can see that that poor little girl has the same 'Quasimodo syndrome' that afflicts Cliven's son Ryan.  Not sure if the apperent mother is a relative of Ryan's, his wife, or both, but it's a pretty unusual defect and statistically to find it in a small group by random chance is not very likely.

The kid laying on the ground may have an extremely unusual condition known as fumarase deficiency which is almost unheard of outside of Mormon enclaves.

Maybe those militia guys can infuse a little badly needed genetic diversity into the environment there in Bunkerville and have the decency to wait until the women-folk are of childbearing age.  The militia guys are hardly most people's conception of quality sperm-bank material, but something is better than nothing I guess.

Bunkerville is reported to have a high population of Fundementalist Latter-Day Saints, and from what I read somewhere the hotel is owned by them and Warren Jeffs (thankfully put away for life+20) performed a lot of arranged marriages there.  The community reportedly finds outside attention quite unwelcome, and if there is any truth to the FLDS assurtions, one can easily see why that would be.

I find almost all conspiracy theories no matter how whacky or way out there they may be to be delightful.  Here's a fun one.  And a very disturbing one if there is anything at all to it.

Bunkerville residents sound off about BLM, police, media




An emotional crowd gathered for a town hall meeting on Thursday evening in Bunkerville.

Residents and council members praised militia members gathered there in support of embattled rancher Cliven Bundy, but had nothing but vitriol for the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie and the local and national media.

“The day the militia [came] was the day I felt safe again in Nevada,” one meeting attendee said.

The meeting was standing-room only. City council members had harsh criticism for the media’s take on the standoff between Bundy and the BLM.

“I heard things said down there. And then when it came out on the air it was a completely different animal,” Bunkerville Councilman Duane Magoon said.

“Tell the whole truth. Don’t spin things to get your ratings,” another council member added.

One council member criticized Gillespie, saying he’s been AWOL in Bunkerville.

“I’m really disappointed in our sheriff for not being out here to protect the citizens who are out here,” he said.

One after another, Bunkerville residents criticized the BLM, calling it an example of overreaching government.

“It’s insane and a way overreach of their power. They should be held accountable,” a meeting attendee said.

“I called Metro, and their exact words to me were, ‘It’s the BLM and Cliven Bundy’s problem,’ – and I should take it up with one of those two. There are my children and my community, and if Metro doesn’t have the guts to come out and protect us – what are you here for? What are we paying you guys for?” another attendee said.

Despite reports of intimidation by armed militia, those gathered for the town hall had nothing but praise for them.

“I want to tell every one of them militia, thank you. Because not one of our government officials, not one of our sheriffs or Metro would have saved us that day. They didn’t save us that day,” an attendee said.

Meanwhile, Bundy and his supporters plan to file criminal reports against the BLM on Friday morning at the office of the Clark County Sheriff’s Department.

Bundy’s complaints include assault, rangers blocking access to public land and rangers impersonating police officers, among several others.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/story/25409893/bunkerville-residents-sound-off-about-blm-police-media?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=10116724

Dude, don't delude yourself into thinking that anyone has time for your loony-tunes word-salad.  Doing so will simply further exacerbate your own mental imbalances.


All fifteen of them!

From what I can tell, they are 'fully prepared' as long as they can take some R&R every few days and get a hot shower.

 - edit: more fitting word.

I'd never heard of these two academics or their strategy.  Not paid much attention to Glen Beck either.  Thx for pointing it out.

I did find it interesting that Beck, although (purportedly) a Mormon and inclined in the direction of such 'patriotic' causes as the Bundy affair was spun, was never really on-board.  I did indeed wonder if he had some sort of a tip-off that going to bat for Bundy wasn't going to end well for him politically.  (A memo that Hannity never got. hehe.)

I personally have been kind of 'paranoid' that the politics under Obama seem to be almost shoving welfare support down the throats of people and expanding the welfare rolls significantly.  It almost seems like there's been a marketing campaign of sorts around it.

A hypothesis that I entertain is that the structure which is being engineered is to have fairly fine-grained control over a fairly broad group of bottom-feeders.  For instance, adjustment of a dial (like the foodstamp debit card monthly allotment) could produce an effect of, say, causing more crime as the riots at Walmart happen and the tweakers to increase their foraging among the unguarded property of the middle-class.  This, in turn, would create support among the tax-paying classes for higher amount of social control (law enforcement, domestic surveillance, etc.)

 - edit: minor syntax

I think read some speculation that the land has been promised to the Chinese if they hang on to our bonds until the USA collapses.

Nevada Standoff a Symptom of Increasing Authoritarianism
Written by Ron Paul

The nation’s attention has for the past few weeks been riveted by a standoff in Nevada between armed federal agents and the Bundys, a ranching family who believe the federal government is exceeding its authority by assessing “fees” against ranchers who graze cattle on government lands. Outrage over the government's use of armed agents to forcibly remove the Bundys’ cattle led many Americans to travel to Nevada to engage in nonviolent civil disobedience in support of the family.

The protests seem to have worked, at least for now, as the government appears to have backed off from direct confrontation. Sadly, some elected officials have inflamed the situation by labeling the Bundys and their supporters “domestic terrorists,” thus justifying any future use of force by the government. That means there is always the possibility of another deadly Waco-style raid on the Bundys or a similar group in the future.

In a state like Nevada, where 84 percent of the land is owned by the federal government, these types of conflicts are inevitable. Government ownership of land means that land is in theory owned by everyone, but in practice owned by no one. Thus, those who use the land lack the incentives to preserve it for the long term. As a result, land-use rules are set by politicians and bureaucrats. Oftentimes, the so-called “public” land is used in ways that benefit politically-powerful special interests.

Politicians and bureaucrats can, and will, arbitrarily change the rules governing the land. In the 19th century, some Americans moved to Nevada because the government promised them that they, and their descendants, would always be able to use the federally-owned land.  The Nevada ranchers believed they had an implied contract with the government allowing them to use the land for grazing. When government bureaucrats decided they needed to restrict grazing to protect the desert tortoise, they used force to drive most ranchers away.

By contrast, if the Nevada land in question was privately owned, the dispute over whether to allow the ranchers to continue to use the land would have likely been resolved without sending in federal armed agents to remove the Bundys’ cattle from the land. This is one more reason why the federal government should rid itself of all federal land holdings. Selling federal lands would also help reduce the federal deficit.

It is unlikely that Congress will divest the federal government’s land holdings, as most in government are more interested in increasing government power than in protecting and restoring private property rights.

A government that continually violates our rights of property and contract can fairly be descried as authoritarian. Of course, the politicians and bureaucrats take offense at this term, but how else do you describe a government that forbids Americans from grazing cattle on land they have used for over a century, from buying health insurance that does not meet Obamacare’s standards, from trading with Cuba, or even from drinking raw milk? That so many in DC support the NSA spying and the TSA assaults on our privacy shows the low regard that too many in government have for our rights. 

History shows us that authoritarian systems, whether fascist, communist, or Keynesian, will inevitably fail. I believe incidents such as that in Nevada show we may be witnessing the failure of the American authoritarian warfare-welfare state -- and that of course would be good. This is why it is so important that those of us who understand the freedom philosophy spread the truth about how statism caused our problems and why liberty is the only solution.

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/april/20/nevada-standoff-a-symptom-of-increasing-authoritarianism.aspx

Bold format added by me: It clearly answers the guy who called the rancher a "bum looking to feed his cattle without paying taxes".


Permanently use the public land for free?
Doesn't that sound rather Communist? 

Cloward + Piven = Cliven

Thus you agree to let me cut off your penis. It is not your property. Your penis is a nomad that should roam and not be possessed nor owned.

Conflating property rights with collectivism is a signal you are losing your sanity.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Martin you are losing your sanity
From:    AnonyMint
Date:    Sat, May 3, 2014 6:20 am
To:      [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/05/02/lagrandes-imf-should-be-outlawed-the-real-terrorist-organization/


I've never seen you write such complete nonsense before.

Have my emails caused you to have a mental breakdown?

Show some evidence that powers that are capable of intervening in the
Ukraine situation ares swayed not to by the an alleged CIA plot. That is
an incredulous assumption.

Simply put, none of us can do a damn thing. Do you expect us to write our
Congressman and demand the USA go defend Ukraine against Russia? Are you
crazy?

We should start a war with Russia because the Ukraine revolutionaries
miscalculated and started a revolution that they could not finish.

At least the Oathkeepers in the USA are armed and fully prepared to finish
what they start.

Europeans are for the most part a clueless bunch of Communist fucks. They
never did fight for gun rights and submitted to gun control. So thus they
can't defend their liberty. Exceptions to some small extent for example in
North Finland.

Only collectivists (Communists and Capitalists) demand property rights. Real humans (communities beyond the society) don't. Communism/capitalism is the perversion of the community.

Well folks you see how politics devolves into an invasion into personal privacy and choice.

The issue was property rights, but the Communists will always try to divert it from that of course.

The thread is basically dead, because there is nothing more to discuss.

Opt-out and let the Communists do the megadeath ritual.