Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher - page 15. (Read 34677 times)

Sure I believe you. Why not? IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW THIS TURNS OUT. This is just the latest installment of government overreach and stupidity. This isn't a boxing match it's the death throes of American society we're witnessing. We're on the brink of economic collapse and our federal government is wasting huge amounts of resources we don't have chasing around some stupid cows, threatening people's livelihoods, and endangering lives. They're charged with defending the borders and upholding US immigration laws, but *NOTHING* can make them do it, yet somehow they have the time to dispense taxpayer funded weapons to mexican drug cartels, invade gibson guitar, and vilify anyone with the audacity to sell raw milk. It's mind numbing. At every single turn the federal regime provokes. Good thing they have all those hollow point bullets.

@solarion:

Believe it or not, I agree with you on your last post more than I disagree with you.  More importantly, I'll bet that the upper ranks of those in the various branches of government see your points as well...because they got their jobs based on sponsors who see things the same way.

In the Weaver affair, the government grew a particular interest to fast and they hired incompetent people.  One small project was to enlist Randy Weaver as an informant.  When he wouldn't play ball they took a vindictive approach (incompetence) and it resulted in other incompetents shooting his dog and minutes thereafter shooting his kid (multiple times in the back.)  After yet more incompetence, his wife ended up with a bullet through the face and laying dead in the families dining room.

This was a tactical loss for the Govt, but it was more-or-less effectively papered over by a compliant media and payouts to the surviving members of Weaver's family.  Even to this day, the mainstream media can make some lemonade out of lemons by painting an inaccurate picture of the event which 90% of people will believe without questioning it.

In the Bundy affair, the mistakes have been learned it seems.  The Feds have scored a knockout punch already.  The Bundy side is like a boxer flat on his back on the canvass, but still throwing shadow punches since in what is left of his mind he's still in the fight and maybe even winning.

This was such a classic and such an effective rope-a-dope that I cannot help but stand in awe.  The militia guys (if there even are any among the plants) were goaded into defending an indefensible position of a leach on society and the very tools which a lot of us consider an absolute last resort (the potential for violent resistance) are roundly (and incorrectly) assumed by everyone to be a key element of their 'success'.  We now have a situation where psychos are running around with guns terrorizing locals (literally) which is extremely bad publicity.  I'll bet that it is true that armed 'militia' guys have stopped people on the road, although I wouldn't be surprised if in some or all cases it were infiltrators who did this, or at least provoked it.

It's now up to the Govt to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by doing something stupid.

We both know there's no way to keep an eye on the MASSIVE number of federal employees. They don't even bother pretending they're employees any longer(cue nancy piglosi scoffing at being held to Constitutional limits). "Let them eat cake" is the underlying message in nearly every public address at every level. Apathy is carefully cultivated. The masses are kept toiling at the plough handle and distracted with fringe issues that have no real bearing on their circumstances, but are instead designed to keep the populace divided so that those in charge can seize more power unopposed. The false left vs right paradigm, the ridiculousness of the (s)election process, gay rights, racial tension...blah blah. Bunch of silly smokescreens. Meanwhile the US is bankrupt, morally and financially, yet continues to deploy her children all over the globe allegedly hunting evil al-CIA-duh. We're chaining our own children and grandchildren to debt so massive they've no chance whatsoever. All the while our infrastructure continues to crumble.

When corruption is found beyond any reasonable doubt on the federal level...NOTHING is done about it. Sure if it gets bad enough somebody resigns, but systemic fraud is very rarely met with any real justice. This country is a pressure cooker boiling over, this is just the latest issue that's got the peasants rightly riled up and also rightly ready to take up arms against their own tyrannical federal government.

Finally a point we can agree on.  Examples of malfeasance and graft abound.  They have throughout history and it's hardly a problem unique to America.  It is a natural result of human nature and the structures we tend to form.  As the owners of the land, we citizens have the right and obligation to keep an eye on our employees (the Feds being one of them) so they don't rob the till.

I think that problems in this area are getting better rather than worse in some ways (but not others) as the years go by.  Part of this is due to the increased power of people on the other side (who have their own contingent of fundamentalist who are just as dingy as annoyneymint.)  But our government on the Federal level especially is increasingly 'by the rich for the rich' due to money in politics.  Local leaderships are just as inclined to be corrupted by special interests and personal greed, but they are more visible to the local populations.  The internet has made Fed level politicians more visible to locals as well which might be part of the reason why it is more difficult for the dirty ones to hide.

In reality, they do what they want and don't care much about "the people".
It's common for Federal land to be leased to well-connected people for strip-mining (or 'fracking') which is the exact opposite of protecting the land.

That will be quite complicated. Because there are several types of federal land, and each of them are administrated by different authorities. These authorities include:

1. United States Department of Defense
2. Department of Agriculture
3. Bureau of Reclamation
4. Bureau of Indian Affairs
5. National Park Service
6. United States Fish and Wildlife Service
7. Bureau of Land Management

Even if it will be possible to place limits on any one or two of these authorities, I doubt whether a combined limit could be imposed.

To my limited understanding the Feds don't acutlly own the land but they hold it for the best interest of the state/people.  It should be given to those best fit to take care of the land.

Bundy matter-of-factly lies as do most deadbeats.

It's a documented fact that the Federal govt bought territories which eventually became most of the Western states.  IIRC, in the case of NV, it is written into their constitution that there is a lot of Federal land within their borders.  They are welcome to work on changing that if they wish, and I honestly would like to see them do it.

It's a documented fact that Bundy's mommy and daddy bought what is currently his 140 acres from a different family after WWII.  The didn't start running cattle at all until the 50's.  1950's.

It's a documented fact that the BLM was instituted within a year of Bundy's birth and prior to that there were other government bodies which had various jurisdictional duties over the land.

After Bundy's '1870's lie was exposed he didn't have much to say in his defense.  I guess he's trying to argue that some Mormons or some honkys or whatever used some land somewhere West of ol'Miss to graze some ungulates for personal gain, and that gives him the right to do whatever he wants on the 600,000 acres near his mellon patch.  It's a lame argument.  I, for one, am disgusted by that sense of entitlement that moochers of all stripe try to put forward.


It's a fact that the whole fucking world was 'the commons' at some point.  Some places, like most of Mongolia, still are.  As population patterns change, the viability of a 'commons' land utilization scheme changes.  That is a historical fact that many individuals and societies have had to deal with.

Bundy choose to lease land from the owner (me as a member of the public) via grazing fees.  It's a logical choice that tens of thousands of ranchers make.  Why?  Because the owners give them one hell of a deal relative to market value of private land.

The downside of not owning land is that you don't get to make the rules.  Even if the owner decided to stop utilizing ALL of it as active rangeland for grazing, that's their right as the owners.  We are a capitalist economy with relatively strong property ownership rights and not some nanny state for deadbeat ranchers.  Bundy should do one of the following:

 - Adjust his operation to make use of the land that the owner wants to make available as working range-land.

 - Stop running cattle and be content raising mellons in HIS land.

 - Move to somewhere where the govt is still willing to support his lifestyle with highly subsidized land if he's addicted to welfare.

 - Run for office or organize politically for the change he wants (as have done the dopers in CO for instance.)

This whole scenario is a mess started by and for the betterment of big central government.
90% owned by the Feds is so ridiculous:
Ideally, the constitution should place severe limits on how much land the Feds can own (by % in any state)
Of course it doesn't.

In the interviews that I've heard Bundy in, he matter of factly calls this area state land that has been usurped by the Feds over time. I'm late to this topic but the man's family has been ranching there for over a century and this BLM outfit has been in existence since ~1981. This land is what has been known as open/free range for a long time and it's clear that the Feds have been trying to put the squeeze on all ranchers in the area for years. And, part of the issue here is that it is in fact public land. If it was private then there would be no dispute. However, despite the fact that NV has allowed the Feds to take ~90% of the state over there should still have been a clause that allows for the random public to do whatever peaceful activities they want. Not to mention the grazing rights this family has earned through making use out of the land for all this time. Plus, initially the cover story was to protect the desert tortoise but that has turned out to be a joke as anyone knows that many military/bombing exercises have occurred in these arid areas w/ said allegedly endangered species for the last 60+ years. This whole scenario is a mess started by and for the betterment of big central government.

BTW...


It's like any low-life saying they will happily pay for the the car they stole, but only to a specific pet rock as soon as it sends a bill.

The state and county don't have the legal means to take the money and Bundy knows this.  He thinks he's being cute and clever, but most people including his fellow ranchers see things for what they are:  Bundy's a greedy self-serving welfare deadbeat suckling off the public teat.  And now he's a political liability as well.

You haven't explained shit.  All you've done is repeatedly bloviated on some absurd belief that you and a handful of loons have got yourself believing.


I've got a big yard.  I spent a lot of time recently creating it by cutting all the brush and planting grass.  I did this for reasons associated with fire protection.  I've also left a certain number of trees.  I've left them because I appreciate the appearance and the shade.  Because this is my land to manage as I see fit, I get to decide how I want things.

Sometimes I invite people to enjoy my property.  It is entirely unwelcome that some uninvited bozo comes and cuts down the trees I did leave because they have some mistaken assumption that a lawn is always better.

Like it or not, a good portion of the NV land belongs to everyone.  We hire the Federal government to managed.  We hire them by voting and we pay them through taxes.  Since I am part-owner, I don't get to micro-manage what they do.  If they don't WANT watering holes on some small parts of the land, then it is a stupid argument that Cliven Bundy is doing anyone a favor by puting them there.

As I've said before, if Cliven Bundy wants to dig watering holes, he can do so on his own fucking property, and if he wants to dig more of them, he can go buy his own ass some more land with is own fucking money.

If Cliven Bundy is unsatisfied that the land he wants to buy is already owned by the Federal government (and thus, by me) he can run for office and work to change things.


It's either a story made up out of whole cloth, or a fact that the out-of-state militia anarchists are interfering with citizens rights to mobility and physically harassing them through a show of force on public property.  I suspect it's true.  This is flat out intimidation and it is one small step from physically assaulting them.  From everything I can tell (from decades of interacting with people like you dating back to the usenet days), I would assume that a lot of these guys would believe that it is their right and duty to intimidate people who don't believe what they believe.  It is a certainty that a fair fraction of normal citizens of the community would be concerned about this.  Thus, if they didn't feel free to express their opinions in a public meeting peppered with armed militia whackos from all over the country, it would be completely understandable and predictable.

[/quote]


That, and hundreds of statements before it, show in no uncertain terms that you are a nutcase.

See, when you participate in nutcase efforts, almost everyone around you is a nutcase as well.  This leads ignorant jackasses like you to mis-judge ratios conclude that you have some sort of meaningful support.  We can see this right here in this thread on this forum.  I'm trying to do is my civic duty and try to educate you a little bit before you go off the deep end and make a lot of innocent people suffer.

I'm also a little sensitive that our foreign readers will think that a high percentage of Americans are whacked out lunatics.  Because the U.S. can pretty much do anything to anyone and any time in any part of the world complements of our highly successful empire building efforts, I want them to realized that there are some sane people here.  Of course I don't know if there are enough because even sane people are pretty lazy and detached.  Indeed, most are...it's part of what constitutes sanity.

My strong guess is no one is commenting any more, because you've demonstrated that Communists have no logic and so rational readers are just exasperated.

They've now turned their attention towards thinking about how to guard their families against (to put it mildly) the coming global train wreck aided and abetted by people like you.


And how many times have I explained upthread that the Feds have no constitutional rights to manage the state land, once a territory has been admitted to the union as a state.

And Bundy has said he will pay the grazing fees to Clark county.

And I've explained upthread that the ranchers (and to limited extent miners) are the only people that can make the arid West productive.

No citizen who resides and makes productive some land which has no private owner is a welfare recipient by way of the right to use the land. This private productivity is the antithesis of welfare.


I can say you could do the same. Or I could say the moon could collide with the earth. There are zillions of things anyone could assert 'can' occur. However you need some actual evidence and data supporting the likelihood of such assertions, otherwise all you are doing is employing FUD to try to make your Communist case.


What exactly do you propose that has ever worked in the history of mankind?

All I see you saying is to respect the fox that manages the hen house.

If you can't see the fucking horrible shit coming to all of us if we don't stop these insane globalists, then your ignorance is the greatest threat to human kind.

Actually it is much too late to stop the coming Apocalypse. The only variable is as I stated...

Bundyfest is a joke, and a rather funny one.  Could you possibly be a bigger fool???

BTW, the main militia guy is now a little butt-hurt by the feedback he got and is no longer planning the same kind of support for Bundyfest that he had been.  But it looks like he's still planning to attend for personal reasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRbfBnvr5xQ

He.  Ya.  ''An army of one."


Bundy is a 'welfare rancher.'  This is res ipsa loquitur.


I said 'can'.  Try moving your lips if it help you read mo-betta.


As I've said before I am a second amendment proponent and would tend to favor smaller and more local government, especially compared to further expansion of the Federal government.  My problem with loony-tunes fuckwads like you are that you are the biggest threat to my hopes in these regards.

There is nothing wrong with local county and state public private partnerships.

The problem is when these metastasize into NWO outcomes, because:

---

Readers now know who is the psyops implant here.

Upthread you stated Bundy was receiving welfare, I challenged you to cite some proof. You never did. Now you make claim that militia are beating the shit out of innocent people. Again I challenge to cite some proof.

You are a FUD machine trying to scare people away from their Constitutional rights. You've pretend to be for small government, but all your stated positions in this thread are big government and Communist.

Of course.  I doubt it to because it's a public meeting so the armed psychos can attend and see who's not a 'real American' then stop their cars and beat the shit out of them on the public road when they leave.

Can you believe this NV rancher:

  http://youtu.be/S4VNg9YSQzw

I guess that's what happens when you get an ejumucation...turns a guy into some sort of a pinko faggot who thinks about things like surface run-off and ecology.  Sheesh.  Thank god for fundy-chartered home skoolin' so our country has a future.

You continue to put forth strawman arguments to support your Communist philosophy.

Ask the Japanese how buying up Hawaii and Rockefeller Center in the 1980s worked out for them. Japan is now bankrupt from that debt-based shopping spree. And they have or will soon have to sell all.

(Again you prove my point that your political philosophy is rooted in subconscious jealousy, combine with a low enough IQ to support your delusional strawman illogic)

If you knew even diddly squat about business and economics, then you would know that the only sustainable owner of the arid West are the ranchers (and in patches the miners).

How can I reason with a Communist moron?


This is a political ploy. The residents can gather at a county council meeting and take a vote and see if there is really discord. I doubt it.

If the militia are doing this, it is because of the aggressive war declared on Bundy by the BLM and those liberal activists who want to go squat on the ranches to make some reenactment of Woodstock concerts to try to prove a point that Bundy is a squatter. But the difference is the ranchers are those work the land and make it sustainably productive since the 1870s.

Looks like the residents of Bunkersville NV loves them some armed anarchists from out-of-state.  Who'd have thunk it?:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/220819896/Letter-to-Sheriff-of-Clark-County-Related-to-Bunkerville-NV

I don't know about you guys, but every day I kneel down and pray that a bunch of gun toting loons from back east turn up and stop me on my county road and demand to see my proof of residence...or demand whatever else they like.