Are you sure?
At this rate greyhawk will end up an NPC in the game.
Topic: Art contest: win some BTC, shape the visual future of Bitcoin gaming. - page 3. (Read 5903 times)
June 18, 2013, 03:39:54 PM
At this rate greyhawk will end up an NPC in the game.
June 18, 2013, 03:38:35 PM
For the record I was not trying to imply anything negative specifically about this assignment. For the right illustrator/artist this could be a perfect project to work on despite that it's a contest. I'm not one of those people saying no one should ever do spec. I openly mentioned I'm participating in a couple contests as I type this. The reason I brought up the other option is that I've found it works better and I read the original article and noticed MP was already having that discussion.
Sorry I came off as a pretentious entitled douche. When I said that there is talent, I was actually thinking about how there are a bunch of amazing illustrators in the services section. Didn't mean me.
I don't think anyone should slave away for 22 hours. I believe there is balance, and that if it's something you love, you're not slaving away at all. I do believe in hard work however. I do not just sit on my ass. And I believe discussing my profession is important and worth spending time on.
BUT I should not have hijacked your thread to do so.
Sorry I came off as a pretentious entitled douche. When I said that there is talent, I was actually thinking about how there are a bunch of amazing illustrators in the services section. Didn't mean me.
I don't think anyone should slave away for 22 hours. I believe there is balance, and that if it's something you love, you're not slaving away at all. I do believe in hard work however. I do not just sit on my ass. And I believe discussing my profession is important and worth spending time on.
BUT I should not have hijacked your thread to do so.
June 18, 2013, 02:19:54 PM
$150 is not enough to take the risk of spec work of a 2048×1536 res fantasy game splash scene where we are not even sure what we are drawing is in line with whatever game idea you have in your head.
Are you sure?
June 18, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
I believe the point being made is, one does not count as an artist in the context of the competition until one submits a piece of artwork; otherwise they're just an onlooker, so to speak.
If we're all going to stop deliberately misunderstanding each other, we might as well just request the thread be locked.
You can request whatever to your heart's content. Makes about the same difference.
Here or on your blog?
It's not my blog, it's MPs blog. I mean okay, I get it, you're new, as far as you're concerned all the names on the screen are equal and the same, names on the screen, composing a really flat reality. This however is not a fact, just an artifact reflecting your candor.
$150 is not enough to take the risk of spec work of a 2048x1536 res fantasy game splash scene where we are not even sure what we are drawing is in line with whatever game idea you have in your head.
You're not required to guess what's in my head (I don't even have any magic powers in this project) or anyone else's for that matter. You are required to come up with something, from your own head. I mean okay, I get it, it's rare for this to happen irl, but that rare doesn't mean never. It's happening right now.
Honestly you should have offered a much smaller payout for that, and a higher payout for this contest. This one takes more work.
Sooo I say payout has no relation, and bring as proof an actual instance where less work with generous payout (March BTC ~= 2.5 June BTC) failed to go anywhere. Your answer to this is that...wait. Did you even logically consider what's going on here? Not really, huh.
Stop focusing on management details, such as what the payout is and how MP structures things. It's obviously not your strong point. You say you're an artist, do that then, do it well, complain if you're mistreated and after you're mistreated rather than before on the grounds that you might be.
Now that I call fair.
I feel like there should be a way to use a blockchain to store game state, which would probably win over all the altcoin fans, but I'm not quite sure it'd make sense.
I feel like all the clueless/idiotic people gravitating around Bitcoin are really the same one person somehow amplified by mirrorwork, and it just keeps repeating the same stupid nonsense. Suddenly the Hercules and Hydra parable becomes very very meaningful to me.
June 18, 2013, 01:59:00 PM
Yes I saw this. My counter point is that this opportunity may not be worth as much as you think it is. You know how many game startups pop up all the time? All asking for spec work, with a promise of additional work? Every single one of these claim that they are an amazing opportunity
S.MG is sitting on 8`799.0657479 BTCi after its succesfull IPO last week.
For that matter, the "community", such as it is, consists principally of people who would love nothing more and spend their time doing nothing else than upmanshipping MP. If indeed you contribute usable artwork and nothing comes of it because the project goes to shit you'll be the only guy in this position in the history of Bitcoin. This is what Taaki, Maxwell, the entire host of "finance" wanna-bes and literally everyone else has been trying to do, since forever. This is why CoinSetter is currently buying tweets, this is what CoinLab was trying to achieve paying off some of the press, that's what Pietila was trying with his rushed conference, that's what the London folk were trying with their second "First Bitcoin Conference", that's the long and the short of it: everyone hopes, strives and dreams of the situation where they could say "Ha, I'm bigger than MP". That blessed situation where you did your end and MP came short, to go with the billion times the opposite occured.
So, your dilemma is this: either you get paid and the game works or else you'd have succeeded at the one thing everyone really seeks, and that'd make you a sort of Satoshi-2. It'd be worth more than your wallet, you can probably support yourself consulting for the rest of your life.
Sorry, I don't know much about the bitcoin community or any of those names, including yours (as you can tell by my measly post count).
Is your argument that this is an amazing opportunity because you have a history of successful business endeavors and you haven't failed before?
I don't think that necessarily guarantees success in the game development business. I'm not seeing much on your site about what concepts or ideas you have with the game you want to make but I hit an apparent "5 article limit" (rofl) and i cant even view the details page anymore.
And you arent offering a good possible payout, other projects can offer more than $150.
By all means, go do that then.
Well, yea. Are you trying to attract talent to your game or not?
You can't complain that you don't get any good entries and that its because people are entitled and don't want to work hard
ill gladly work hard, but make the payout worthwhile.
By this reasoning "no coder worth the money is ever going to make an extremely detailed project on the hopes of winning". Except they do. That's what the better coders do, and whenever some coder wants to be hired on a salary the first point in anyone's mind is "so he doesn't think he's good enough to start-up".
Really, it's 2013, time to split the artists from the wanna-bes.
Really, it's 2013, time to split the artists from the wanna-bes.
Starting up on your own is different from doing spec work for someone else's startup.
And understand, that's not my line of reasoning at all. My reasoning is "no coder worth the money is ever going to make an extremely detailed project on the hopes of winning a meager amount of money and maybe the chance to do more extremely detailed projects for probably a similar amount of money"
Sure, offer spec work, but make the payout at least worth spending alot of time on it so you can get some decent results
Well, the fact that you have 9k bitcoins allocated for it actually makes it different. Thats Good. You have the chance of actually funding it.
Chance? No chance. Why chance?
Sorry, i meant seeing the project to conclusion.
however, already it looks like you are terrible at funding it. You are only allocating about 1BTC to find an artist that is supposedly going to do alot of work on the art of your game. It may have a huge influence on the artstyle as you are planning to use it as a slash screen. Is the art of your game only worth 1BTC to find a good artist?
No. The "artist's" airs are worth nothing at all, so MP is offering something symbolic, a token if you wish. To be perfectly clear, in case any doubt lingers: until and unless you've submitted art you are not an artist. Irrespective of what you might have heard, from parents/girlfriend/that guy you're paying for the purpose, you are not an artist until and unless you deliver.
You are only shortchanging yourself. Offer a pot of 3-7btc, get actual quality submissions.
On the other side of the planet, you can't insulate yourself from risks. Being part of a start-up is being part of a start-up, you can't play 9 to 5 office on one end and then cash in like an entrepreneur on the other end. You don't get the benefit of signing your name on tomorrow's megafranchise without putting a lot of your work at risk. Joanne Rowling pitched her book to almost one hundred publishers over years before being accepted, on a very tight contract. You're more than welcome to wait for someone to pay you a generous salary a year in advance and then make you famous, but if you hold your breath for it you'll die. And if you don't hold your breath for it you'll get sick of Ramen sooner or later.
What? no ones asking for a generous salary, or payout. I never said it doesn't take risk. Just something worth the risk.
$150 is not enough to take the risk of spec work of a 2048×1536 res fantasy game splash scene where we are not even sure what we are drawing is in line with whatever game idea you have in your head.
I prefer to make things tailored specifically to the project at hand., that way they can license it for whatever they want fully
You're not that cool yet. In order for you to be that cool you have to first be an artist. You're not an artist, not yet. Are you gonna be one or are you gonna just go the way of that other failure (ie, moltenmich)?
June 18, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
I believe the point being made is, one does not count as an artist in the context of the competition until one submits a piece of artwork; otherwise they're just an onlooker, so to speak.
If we're all going to stop deliberately misunderstanding each other, we might as well just request the thread be locked.
But we're having so much fun
I'm fairly entertained.
You'd want to start out with only enough in-game infrastructure to get money into the game and to get people creating. Everything else can be built by players.
I feel like there should be a way to use a blockchain to store game state, which would probably win over all the altcoin fans, but I'm not quite sure it'd make sense.
June 18, 2013, 01:17:31 PM
I believe the point being made is, one does not count as an artist in the context of the competition until one submits a piece of artwork; otherwise they're just an onlooker, so to speak.
If we're all going to stop deliberately misunderstanding each other, we might as well just request the thread be locked.
But we're having so much fun
June 18, 2013, 01:09:47 PM
I believe the point being made is, one does not count as an artist in the context of the competition until one submits a piece of artwork; otherwise they're just an onlooker, so to speak.
If we're all going to stop deliberately misunderstanding each other, we might as well just request the thread be locked.
June 18, 2013, 01:08:44 PM
It's worth mentioning at this point that greyhawk now passes this criteria.
I also won a price for a pencil picture I drew when I was 6, so I passed that criteria long ago.
Hey, congrats! If you want any prints made of it, let me know. I'll give you the "friend" price
June 18, 2013, 01:02:23 PM
I believe the point being made is, one does not count as an artist in the context of the competition until one submits a piece of artwork; otherwise they're just an onlooker, so to speak.
June 18, 2013, 12:56:19 PM
It's worth mentioning at this point that greyhawk now passes this criteria.
I also won a price for a pencil picture I drew when I was 6, so I passed that criteria long ago.
June 18, 2013, 12:47:37 PM
Quote from: nubbins on Today at 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: greyhawk on Today at 03:19:05 PM
Dude the fuck's wrong with the nubbin. Fiddy seconds, seriously?
Quote from: greyhawk on Today at 03:19:05 PM
Dude the fuck's wrong with the nubbin. Fiddy seconds, seriously?
When we're done discussing the time, can we move onto more pressing topics, like the weather?
until and unless you've submitted art you are not an artist.
That's... not correct.
you are not an artist until and unless you deliver.
That's correct in a general sense. You've removed the distinction that one has to deliver on this project (sorry, job!) in order to be an artist. A professional one, at least. I'd go so far as to say that if you haven't sold anything you've created to a stranger, you're not an artist of any sort of merit.
It's worth mentioning at this point that greyhawk now passes this criteria.
June 18, 2013, 12:18:32 PM
Quote from: nubbins on Today at 03:19:55 PM
Quote from: greyhawk on Today at 03:19:05 PM
Dude the fuck's wrong with the nubbin. Fiddy seconds, seriously?
Ritalin. Urgently. Lots of it.
Does that thing look particularly phallic or is it me?
S.MG is sitting on 8`799.0657479 BTCi after its succesfull IPO last week.
For that matter, the "community", such as it is, consists principally of people who would love nothing more and spend their time doing nothing else than upmanshipping MP. If indeed you contribute usable artwork and nothing comes of it because the project goes to shit you'll be the only guy in this position in the history of Bitcoin. This is what Taaki, Maxwell, the entire host of "finance" wanna-bes and literally everyone else has been trying to do, since forever. This is why CoinSetter is currently buying tweets, this is what CoinLab was trying to achieve paying off some of the press, that's what Pietila was trying with his rushed conference, that's what the London folk were trying with their second "First Bitcoin Conference", that's the long and the short of it: everyone hopes, strives and dreams of the situation where they could say "Ha, I'm bigger than MP". That blessed situation where you did your end and MP came short, to go with the billion times the opposite occured.
So, your dilemma is this: either you get paid and the game works or else you'd have succeeded at the one thing everyone really seeks, and that'd make you a sort of Satoshi-2. It'd be worth more than your wallet, you can probably support yourself consulting for the rest of your life.
S.MG is sitting on 8`799.0657479 BTCi after its succesfull IPO last week.
By all means, go do that then.
Understand, I don't care what you are. Ideally you care what you are, but if you don't that's also fine, don't expect me to parent you. I'm not your mommy, and you can't blackmail me with "I'll fuck up my future because this pays $150 now".
Chance? No chance. Why chance?
Yeah, I've been sayin'....
No. The "artist's" airs are worth nothing at all, so MP is offering something symbolic, a token if you wish. To be perfectly clear, in case any doubt lingers: until and unless you've submitted art you are not an artist. Irrespective of what you might have heard, from parents/girlfriend/that guy you're paying for the purpose, you are not an artist until and unless you deliver.
You're not that cool yet. In order for you to be that cool you have to first be an artist. You're not an artist, not yet. Are you gonna be one or are you gonna just go the way of that other failure (ie, moltenmich)?
Pick one already.
Once we've established the artist part, I'm sure payment can be arranged in a satisfactory manner. That an artist who doesn't normally take BTC will receive a 1.337 token on top of that to keep in his wallet seems to have little bearing.
That's fine and dandy, but if both you and management feel better being contacted personally and simply wait for the other party to do so nothing's gonna happen.
Quote from: greyhawk on Today at 03:19:05 PM
Dude the fuck's wrong with the nubbin. Fiddy seconds, seriously?
Ritalin. Urgently. Lots of it.
Here. Let me do another.
Does that thing look particularly phallic or is it me?
Yes I saw this. My counter point is that this opportunity may not be worth as much as you think it is. You know how many game startups pop up all the time? All asking for spec work, with a promise of additional work? Every single one of these claim that they are an amazing opportunity
S.MG is sitting on 8`799.0657479 BTCi after its succesfull IPO last week.
For that matter, the "community", such as it is, consists principally of people who would love nothing more and spend their time doing nothing else than upmanshipping MP. If indeed you contribute usable artwork and nothing comes of it because the project goes to shit you'll be the only guy in this position in the history of Bitcoin. This is what Taaki, Maxwell, the entire host of "finance" wanna-bes and literally everyone else has been trying to do, since forever. This is why CoinSetter is currently buying tweets, this is what CoinLab was trying to achieve paying off some of the press, that's what Pietila was trying with his rushed conference, that's what the London folk were trying with their second "First Bitcoin Conference", that's the long and the short of it: everyone hopes, strives and dreams of the situation where they could say "Ha, I'm bigger than MP". That blessed situation where you did your end and MP came short, to go with the billion times the opposite occured.
So, your dilemma is this: either you get paid and the game works or else you'd have succeeded at the one thing everyone really seeks, and that'd make you a sort of Satoshi-2. It'd be worth more than your wallet, you can probably support yourself consulting for the rest of your life.
What makes your project different from all the other failures? Why should I spend the time doing artwork for you, and not all the startups on every game development forum there is?
S.MG is sitting on 8`799.0657479 BTCi after its succesfull IPO last week.
And you arent offering a good possible payout, other projects can offer more than $150.
By all means, go do that then.
By this reasoning "no coder worth the money is ever going to make an extremely detailed project on the hopes of winning". Except they do. That's what the better coders do, and whenever some coder wants to be hired on a salary the first point in anyone's mind is "so he doesn't think he's good enough to start-up".
Really, it's 2013, time to split the artists from the wanna-bes.
Really, it's 2013, time to split the artists from the wanna-bes.
Understand, I don't care what you are. Ideally you care what you are, but if you don't that's also fine, don't expect me to parent you. I'm not your mommy, and you can't blackmail me with "I'll fuck up my future because this pays $150 now".
Well, the fact that you have 9k bitcoins allocated for it actually makes it different. Thats Good. You have the chance of actually funding it.
Chance? No chance. Why chance?
So in that case, it looks like this might actually be a good opportunity.
Yeah, I've been sayin'....
however, already it looks like you are terrible at funding it. You are only allocating about 1BTC to find an artist that is supposedly going to do alot of work on the art of your game. It may have a huge influence on the artstyle as you are planning to use it as a slash screen. Is the art of your game only worth 1BTC to find a good artist?
No. The "artist's" airs are worth nothing at all, so MP is offering something symbolic, a token if you wish. To be perfectly clear, in case any doubt lingers: until and unless you've submitted art you are not an artist. Irrespective of what you might have heard, from parents/girlfriend/that guy you're paying for the purpose, you are not an artist until and unless you deliver.
You are only shortchanging yourself. Offer a pot of 3-7btc, get actual quality submissions.
On the other side of the planet, you can't insulate yourself from risks. Being part of a start-up is being part of a start-up, you can't play 9 to 5 office on one end and then cash in like an entrepreneur on the other end. You don't get the benefit of signing your name on tomorrow's megafranchise without putting a lot of your work at risk. Joanne Rowling pitched her book to almost one hundred publishers over years before being accepted, on a very tight contract. You're more than welcome to wait for someone to pay you a generous salary a year in advance and then make you famous, but if you hold your breath for it you'll die. And if you don't hold your breath for it you'll get sick of Ramen sooner or later.
I prefer to make things tailored specifically to the project at hand., that way they can license it for whatever they want fully
You're not that cool yet. In order for you to be that cool you have to first be an artist. You're not an artist, not yet. Are you gonna be one or are you gonna just go the way of that other failure (ie, moltenmich)?
Pick one already.
I know of very few artists of the type this contest is asking for who accept Bitcoin. Makes me wonder if this'll convert a reputable artist into using Bitcoin, or if the few artists here will actually get chosen.
Once we've established the artist part, I'm sure payment can be arranged in a satisfactory manner. That an artist who doesn't normally take BTC will receive a 1.337 token on top of that to keep in his wallet seems to have little bearing.
Besides the artists I listed, the only one left I'm aware of who is suited to take on a job like this is myself, but if that's going to be the case, I'd feel better being contacted personally.
That's fine and dandy, but if both you and management feel better being contacted personally and simply wait for the other party to do so nothing's gonna happen.
June 18, 2013, 11:09:52 AM
Somewhat unrelated:
I know of very few artists of the type this contest is asking for who accept Bitcoin. Makes me wonder if this'll convert a reputable artist into using Bitcoin, or if the few artists here will actually get chosen. I think zinodaur might be a good pick, but he, xquisit and beefsock are more designers than anything... Ls is more of a sci-fi artist. I think there's one more who I haven't seen in a month that drew anime, and a few others who are still very early into art creation. I bring this up, tho, because it might be easier to see if an established artist will take BTC, than try to lead one into a contest. Besides the artists I listed, the only one left I'm aware of who is suited to take on a job like this is myself, but if that's going to be the case, I'd feel better being contacted personally. I dunno, I guess I'll wait and see who enters.
I know of very few artists of the type this contest is asking for who accept Bitcoin. Makes me wonder if this'll convert a reputable artist into using Bitcoin, or if the few artists here will actually get chosen. I think zinodaur might be a good pick, but he, xquisit and beefsock are more designers than anything... Ls is more of a sci-fi artist. I think there's one more who I haven't seen in a month that drew anime, and a few others who are still very early into art creation. I bring this up, tho, because it might be easier to see if an established artist will take BTC, than try to lead one into a contest. Besides the artists I listed, the only one left I'm aware of who is suited to take on a job like this is myself, but if that's going to be the case, I'd feel better being contacted personally. I dunno, I guess I'll wait and see who enters.
June 18, 2013, 10:47:10 AM
On IRC, MP said that S.MG will have a bottomless need for more artwork to create their games. If you approach this as a job interview rather than a competition to make a quick buck then you might see the utility of entering an example of your work.
Yes I saw this. My counter point is that this opportunity may not be worth as much as you think it is. You know how many game startups pop up all the time? All asking for spec work, with a promise of additional work? Every single one of these claim that they are an amazing opportunity, and that the artist should be thankful for getting the opportunity to work for them. This is not a new idea or concept, its been treaded down hundreds of times before. What makes your project different from all the other failures? Why should I spend the time doing artwork for you, and not all the startups on every game development forum there is? Time is a limited resource, after all, and the cash payout here isnt that good.
Well, the fact that you have 9k bitcoins allocated for it actually makes it different. Thats Good. You have the chance of actually funding it. So in that case, it looks like this might actually be a good opportunity.
however, already it looks like you are terrible at funding it. You are only allocating about 1BTC to find an artist that is supposedly going to do alot of work on the art of your game. It may have a huge influence on the artstyle as you are planning to use it as a slash screen. Is the art of your game only worth 1BTC to find a good artist? You are only shortchanging yourself. Offer a pot of 3-7btc, get actual quality submissions. That is the only point I am making in my post.
That's the funny thing. Anything "an artist" would have to do is take whatever fantasy-y thing he has in his portfolio, crop it to the requested dimension and - bingo - you've got a valid entry. Then see how things go from there.
I prefer to make things tailored specifically to the project at hand., that way they can license it for whatever they want fully
June 18, 2013, 10:40:58 AM
We're still discussing making art.
Well, after a fashion.
Tho' honestly I'd personally prefer you continue with the posturing
It's a busy day, but I'll try to keep up.
Also, to make it perfectly clear: once we're done with the forum dickery and are actually submitting stuff which actually meets the spec we're expected to actually meet the spec. That includes posting a link THERE and including a Bitcoin address. Specifically and underliningly if you post your art here and somebody else takes it and posts it there MP will likely just shrug and pay them rather than you.
Well, I'm nobody's fool. Done and done!
June 18, 2013, 10:32:25 AM
Is this available for iOS yet?
No, Apple doesn't accept my Bitcoin IAP. But I'll be releasing this one in 2 weeks BFL-time.
June 18, 2013, 10:24:45 AM
The other mistaken assumption is that you learn how to make this game before you make it, and then 'come back' and make it, which is so convoluted that I fear you may have missed the point.
We're still discussing making art. There is no discussion of making "the game", nor can there be. So, you wish to contribute anything here, go learn how to draw.
Tho' honestly I'd personally prefer you continue with the posturing; on one hand I've grown to like pissing all over forum retards and on the other since the tortilla goon is gone there's almost a shortage of game.
I read the entire thread and the article, and the comments.
That's good then, in spite of it somehow having what seems like little effect. Consider what you missed out on (as an example):
On IRC, MP said that S.MG will have a bottomless need for more artwork to create their games. If you approach this as a job interview rather than a competition to make a quick buck then you might see the utility of entering an example of your work.
"isn't even hosted on the forum" - I think that should count as a positive
"has very vague directions" - They seem pretty clear to me, you just have alot of leeway within the specifications.
"isn't even hosted on the forum" - I think that should count as a positive
"has very vague directions" - They seem pretty clear to me, you just have alot of leeway within the specifications.
That's the funny thing. Anything "an artist" would have to do is take whatever fantasy-y thing he has in his portfolio, crop it to the requested dimension and - bingo - you've got a valid entry. Then see how things go from there.
Does it suck? Most certainly.
Is it better than anything else posted yet? Absolutely.
Is it better than anything else posted yet? Absolutely.
Also, to make it perfectly clear: once we're done with the forum dickery and are actually submitting stuff which actually meets the spec we're expected to actually meet the spec. That includes posting a link THERE and including a Bitcoin address. Specifically and underliningly if you post your art here and somebody else takes it and posts it there MP will likely just shrug and pay them rather than you.
June 18, 2013, 10:19:55 AM
June 18, 2013, 10:19:05 AM
a ton of work for potentially no payout,
What ton of work? The ton of work of grabbing whatever medievaly thing you've already done and posting it? That ton of work?
Here. Let me do another. That ton of work took a minute. I had to first remember where exactly I put that photograph.
