ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1080.

gog1

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 500

Agree in that there are other optimization to do,

NMC / BTC dropped a lot after ASICMINER shows up in bitminter.

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 09:01:18 PM

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 20, 2013, 07:57:34 PM

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 02:27:52 PM

Solo mining provides

1) No operator fees
2) All transaction fees (which have been consistently rising since Bitcoin started)
3) Less risk from pool owner trust
4) Less risk from pool downtime and DDOS attacks

At a cost of
1) More variance (who cares when you have significant hash power)

and
2) No merged mining. This is important because, according to Dustcoin, Namecoin currently adds 6.42% (BTC60.6 or $7410.17 a day) to 21TH of mining.

That's not chump change; perhaps Friedcat can buy merged mining software from Dr. Haribo or doublec.

ASICMiner cannot merge mine will all 21TH or it will destroy the alt coins, both in terms of theri network hash rate (exceeding 51%) and in terms of exchange value (thats a lot of coins now being insta sold). So yes, a portion could go to DEVcoin and IXcoin, and namecoin, but not all or even most of it.

In other words, its not going to be +6.42%

It might be something to explore, but right now I think Friedcat has much more profitable optimizations and expansions to pursue.

conv3rsion

sr. member

Activity: 310

Merit: 250

Quote from: JamesTaylor on May 20, 2013, 09:15:57 PM

Can some1 explain why is it going to be useful to know ASICMiner mining hashrate? I guess only curiosity.

Helps to estimate expected dividends, or at least the portion that comes from mining and not sales.
Helps to verify that ASICMiner is currently mining at the rate they claim to, which builds confidence

JamesTaylor

newbie

Activity: 30

Merit: 0

Can some1 explain why is it going to be useful to know ASICMiner mining hashrate? I guess only curiosity.

conv3rsion

sr. member

Activity: 310

Merit: 250

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 20, 2013, 07:57:34 PM

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 02:27:52 PM

Solo mining provides

1) No operator fees
2) All transaction fees (which have been consistently rising since Bitcoin started)
3) Less risk from pool owner trust
4) Less risk from pool downtime and DDOS attacks

At a cost of
1) More variance (who cares when you have significant hash power)

and
2) No merged mining. This is important because, according to Dustcoin, Namecoin currently adds 6.42% (BTC60.6 or $7410.17 a day) to 21TH of mining.

That's not chump change; perhaps Friedcat can buy merged mining software from Dr. Haribo or doublec.

ASICMiner cannot merge mine will all 21TH or it will destroy the alt coins, both in terms of theri network hash rate (exceeding 51%) and in terms of exchange value (thats a lot of coins now being insta sold). So yes, a portion could go to DEVcoin and IXcoin, and namecoin, but not all or even most of it.

In other words, its not going to be +6.42%

It might be something to explore, but right now I think Friedcat has much more profitable optimizations and expansions to pursue.

matt4054

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1035

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 20, 2013, 07:57:34 PM

2) No merged mining. This is important because, according to Dustcoin, Namecoin currently adds 6.42% (BTC60.6 or $7410.17 a day) to 21TH of mining.

That's not chump change; perhaps Friedcat can buy merged mining software from Dr. Haribo or doublec.

True. OTOH I don't think this income would have been sustainable in the long run. NMC is deemed to stay a niche for alt-coiners until real applications start making use of it (i.e. the idea behind .bit at the time)

romerun

legendary

Activity: 1078

Merit: 1002

Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: MikkisJ on May 20, 2013, 05:54:50 PM

This is a noob question...

How does transfer of shares happen? I understand the owners of shares are in your database, but how can I see when someone transferred shares to another owner, me?

The current share owner contacts asicminer staff to request the change of ownership providing the bitcoin address and contact email for the new owner.

who is asicminer staff

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4354

Merit: 9201

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on May 20, 2013, 07:57:34 PM

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 02:27:52 PM

Solo mining provides

1) No operator fees
2) All transaction fees (which have been consistently rising since Bitcoin started)
3) Less risk from pool owner trust
4) Less risk from pool downtime and DDOS attacks

At a cost of
1) More variance (who cares when you have significant hash power)

and
2) No merged mining. This is important because, according to Dustcoin, Namecoin currently adds 6.42% (BTC60.6 or $7410.17 a day) to 21TH of mining.

That's not chump change; perhaps Friedcat can buy merged mining software from Dr. Haribo or doublec.

good point they could also fund dr haribo to a better server and hash more on bit minter

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 02:27:52 PM

Solo mining provides

1) No operator fees
2) All transaction fees (which have been consistently rising since Bitcoin started)
3) Less risk from pool owner trust
4) Less risk from pool downtime and DDOS attacks

At a cost of
1) More variance (who cares when you have significant hash power)

and
2) No merged mining. This is important because, according to Dustcoin, Namecoin currently adds 6.42% (BTC60.6 or $7410.17 a day) to 21TH of mining.

That's not chump change; perhaps Friedcat can buy merged mining software from Dr. Haribo or doublec.

CMMPro

hero member

Activity: 588

Merit: 500

It's all on Bitfunder....the G.ASICMINER-PT isn't going anywhere.

He closed an older fund that held a shitload of G.ASICMINER-PT (4130 shares).
That fund had a lot of people left in the negative, and he did an amazing standup job of making money with the remaining shares and getting everyone their investments back instead of being at a huge loss.

DeaDTerra is practically a Bitcointalk hero for what he did for those shareholders.

bobboooiie

hero member

Activity: 656

Merit: 500

Quote from: CMMPro on May 20, 2013, 03:48:17 PM

It's nothing new, he has been selling G.ASICMiner-PT for a few weeks...they had ~4130 shares, 2800 left.
Closing down 'Gamma' fund.

No FUD to spread here sorry.

Wait, what happens to poeple who have PT`s from them ? Am I still gonna be able to trade and who is gonna provide liqudity for market ?

stslimited

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: sleger on May 20, 2013, 06:37:16 PM

That is assuming a 20% market share which could very well be their mining market share. But in addition there is hardware sales, which at the current price are probably sold at the "right" price, as in exactly for how many bitcoins they would bring back.
So indirectly AM could own well more than 50% of the share indirectly through their sales, and the sales bring income very fast.
So there are some arguments for AM shares to be priced well more than 2 BTC.

correct and they deliver much faster than all other sha-256 asic companies. (I received mine in New York 48 hours from receipt of payment)

so they could have that market cornered

There could be an opportunity for them to sell more shovels

sleger

full member

Activity: 167

Merit: 100

That is assuming a 20% market share which could very well be their mining market share. But in addition there is hardware sales, which at the current price are probably sold at the "right" price, as in exactly for how many bitcoins they would bring back.
So indirectly AM could own well more than 50% of the share indirectly through their sales, and the sales bring income very fast.
So there are some arguments for AM shares to be priced well more than 2 BTC.

ex-trader

sr. member

Activity: 298

Merit: 250

Quote from: hammurabi on May 20, 2013, 06:39:03 AM

Ok, I will do the heavy math for you Tongue

21.000.000 btc - 11.000.000 btc = 10 more millions to mine. (total coins minus already mined coins).
10.000.000 btc / 400.000 pcs = 25 BTC per share (if we mine 100% of it).

So, number of coins yet to be mined per share is:
2.5 btc if we maintain 10%
6.25 btc if we maintain 25%
12.50 btc if we hit 50%
25 btc if we somehow hit 100%

That would be correct if in your examples above (using 10%) you were happy to invest 2.5 BTC now and wait about 10-20 years to receive the same 2.5BTC back in mined coins (ignoring costs/fees/electricity etc).

If on the other hand you want to actually earn a return on your risky investment then the value has to be discounted by your desired return rate. I did the maths many pages ago, the relevant bit is:

"If ASIC Miner could mine 10% of all coins forever, then they mine 1Mn BTC for a total of 2.5 BTC/share (ie 1Mn/400k)
Assuming that an investor wanted a positive net return then they'd pay less than 2.5BTC to buy that income stream, probably nearer 1BTC, for a roughly 25% IRR over the long holding period."

With this in mind and assuming a 20% long-term share 2BTC is a fair value right now.

The counter-argument is the possible added value of transaction fees, but at this stage it is very unclear what these will be worth.....

MikkisJ

member

Activity: 126

Merit: 11

This is a noob question...

How does transfer of shares happen? I understand the owners of shares are in your database, but how can I see when someone transferred shares to another owner, me?

runeks

legendary

Activity: 980

Merit: 1008

Still working on the script.

So far it says the following blocks have been mined by ASICMiner:

Code:

blockhash blockheight difficulty timestamp
000000000000010c9335c90f6e1f2d2a9af73ca078d660c98988234309b9dba3 237079 11187257.4614 1369069056
000000000000007e6a981b8d2604801dd11f8a668d7b474f0f828a9e4c30c0d5 237088 11187257.4614 1369074825
000000000000001c9b6fb89f95d1676d41f160f4f5ccf102243a6ef7ff015da4 237097 11187257.4614 1369082215
0000000000000105874616cf0700309a068ea89377077c432e52d8c18bbbb0b2 237099 11187257.4614 1369083698

btclvr

newbie

Activity: 29

Merit: 0

Quote from: conv3rsion on May 20, 2013, 02:27:52 PM

Quote from: muyuu on May 20, 2013, 02:22:50 PM

Quote from: friedcat on May 20, 2013, 12:00:46 PM

First solo block:

https://blockchain.info/tx/cba743ea1b7904c5624e0ee75f12d177ceb214c07f8e8b55ff2eb082404eb54a?show_adv=true

From now on the solo result of ASICMINER will have "Mined By ASICMiner" within the CoinBase.

You're not including transactions?

What?

https://blockchain.info/block-index/383941

Transaction Fees 0.1392 BTC

My question now going forward (for everyone, not specifically Friedcat), for an company like this, is there any advantage to using the pools at all?

Solo mining provides

1) No operator fees
2) All transaction fees (which have been consistently rising since Bitcoin started)
3) Less risk from pool owner trust
4) Less risk from pool downtime and DDOS attacks

At a cost of
1) More variance (who cares when you have significant hash power)

If another fork event occurs, friedcat will have to be on top of it and potentially change the version of the protocol used for solo mining. See http://bitcoin.org/may15.html

Franktank

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

Quote from: friedcat on May 20, 2013, 12:00:46 PM

First solo block:

https://blockchain.info/tx/cba743ea1b7904c5624e0ee75f12d177ceb214c07f8e8b55ff2eb082404eb54a?show_adv=true

From now on the solo result of ASICMINER will have "Mined By ASICMiner" within the CoinBase.

And it begins... *Insert Inception Bass Noise*

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: sleger on May 20, 2013, 03:51:14 PM

Quote from: Dexter770221 on May 20, 2013, 03:29:49 PM

Quote from: richard_dein on May 20, 2013, 03:14:29 PM

.... talk to some large shareholders who is thinking of cashing out ...

Like DeaDTerra https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/selling-gasicminer-pt-210933
I'm wondering what he heard there that he want to dump 2800 shares...
Price dropped already...

On the other side there is TAT who still needs to buy about that amount so they should just work out a deal between themselves at mid price. Market price should therefore not move.

Possibly, but I try to buy off-market, so it's a little more tricky as I think DT wants to keep the shares within BitFunder if he can...

ThickAsThieves

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: CMMPro on May 20, 2013, 03:48:17 PM

It's nothing new, he has been selling G.ASICMiner-PT for a few weeks...they had ~3600 shares, 2800 left.
Closing down a fund.

No FUD to spread here sorry.

This is correct, DT holds a large amount of shares on behalf of a bunch of fund asset holders. He is liquidating that fund to pay everyone out and close the old asset. Sure, it'll affect the market a bit, but only for a few days. ChEEpCoINZ!

sleger

full member

Activity: 167

Merit: 100

Quote from: Dexter770221 on May 20, 2013, 03:29:49 PM

Quote from: richard_dein on May 20, 2013, 03:14:29 PM

.... talk to some large shareholders who is thinking of cashing out ...

Like DeaDTerra https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/selling-gasicminer-pt-210933
I'm wondering what he heard there that he want to dump 2800 shares...
Price dropped already...

On the other side there is TAT who still needs to buy about that amount so they should just work out a deal between themselves at mid price. Market price should therefore not move.

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