ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1159.

TheSwede75

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Quote from: stslimited on April 27, 2013, 08:52:46 AM

Splits are done to bring liquidity to a stock.

Take one look at BTCT.CO , do you really think a split will bring liquidity to this one stock? No, it won't.

It will be just as illiquid and harder to fill an order at a particular price because you will have more shares.

signed: the voice of reason.

I think you are 100% wrong. The stock is not illiquid, it is definitely the high purchase price the keeps the price spread up and causes low trading volume. That said' I don't care if it splits at all.

velacreations

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Quote from: lophie on April 27, 2013, 09:14:31 AM

Yeah but I stopped complaining about anything regarding ASICMINER since I embraced my new motto. If they delivered faster than BFL (Which means they they delivered, EVER!), I won't complain! Grin

well, that is no longer a luxury we can rely on. BFL is shipping, and a few sources have received their review units. They are dangerously close to making an impact on our profits.

The plan was to get the original 12 TH/s online some time ago so that we could take advantage of the April vacuum. We have basically missed that, and limped through with ~7 TH/s

The next plan was to get the 50 TH/s before May, remember that? What happened to that plan? We might get 3 TH/s of that up before May...

Now, I love AM as much as the next guy, but the slow deployment is leaving money on the table. And with our competitors finally getting their stuff together, they pose a real threat to AM's ability to earn significant revenue.

nightengale

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I guess part of my point is, if you want to diversify ownership by splitting the stock and trading it in a more liquid marketplace like the exchanges the PT shares are moving through, people are going to want more details about the organization's plans in a place that is easier to find. The summary statements on the exchanges are a good start, but people are going to want a more thorough / transparent source of historical & prospective info. I think diversifying ownership is a good thing, because splits tend to increase share value, but there are a few things that need to fall into place before we get there.

Mausini

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on April 27, 2013, 09:02:40 AM

I am confused about how there was supposed to be 12-15TH online a month ago, yet we are only getting it now (slowly). What does this mean about deployment to 50TH and 200TH. Never?

Seems more like you wont be getting anything, because you sold your shares Grin

Trying to get the price down?

lophie

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Unlimited Free Crypto

Quote from: ThickAsThieves on April 27, 2013, 09:02:40 AM

I am confused about how there was supposed to be 12-15TH online a month ago, yet we are only getting it now (slowly). What does this mean about deployment to 50TH and 200TH. Never?

Yeah but I stopped complaining about anything regarding ASICMINER since I embraced my new motto. If they delivered faster than BFL (Which means they they delivered, EVER!), I won't complain! Grin

ThickAsThieves

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I am confused about how there was supposed to be 12-15TH online a month ago, yet we are only getting it now (slowly). What does this mean about deployment to 50TH and 200TH. Never?

ghostshirt

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Quote from: nightengale on April 27, 2013, 08:06:07 AM

Forgive me if this has been covered in a previous weeks or months, but are there details available about the mid-to-long term logistical plans for ASICMINER? I know they plan to deploy an additional 7-8 TH/s over the coming week, and sales of the USB miners are pending as well, but beyond that is the plan to maintain for a while, or to continue to develop and deploy and/or sell additional hardware? With BFL devices and additional Avalon offerings coming, not to mention other hardware companies entering the market, are there projections regarding the network's overall hash rate and what portion ASICMINER can realistically target? ASICMINER appears to be doing well thanks to Friedcat and others' work, and is headed in a great direction, but IMHO these are looming questions for those looking at this as a long-term investment and considering to put the equivalent of hundreds or thousands of dollars into the company.

Thanks for any information or perspective offered.

You can follow this blog for future projections regarding ASIC deployment of various enterprises.
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2013/04/914-asic-earnings-23-april-2013.html

stslimited

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Activity: 546

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Splits are done to bring liquidity to a stock.

Take one look at BTCT.CO , do you really think a split will bring liquidity to this one stock? No, it won't.

It will be just as illiquid and harder to fill an order at a particular price because you will have more shares.

signed: the voice of reason.

kokojie

legendary

Activity: 1806

Merit: 1003

No split gimmick. My line of thought is similar to warren buffet's $160,000/share BRKA, and also GOOG. High stock prices keeps the weak hands out. $170/share is no where near too high for "small investors".

nightengale

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Forgive me if this has been covered in a previous weeks or months, but are there details available about the mid-to-long term logistical plans for ASICMINER? I know they plan to deploy an additional 7-8 TH/s over the coming week, and sales of the USB miners are pending as well, but beyond that is the plan to maintain for a while, or to continue to develop and deploy and/or sell additional hardware? With BFL devices and additional Avalon offerings coming, not to mention other hardware companies entering the market, are there projections regarding the network's overall hash rate and what portion ASICMINER can realistically target? ASICMINER appears to be doing well thanks to Friedcat and others' work, and is headed in a great direction, but IMHO these are looming questions for those looking at this as a long-term investment and considering to put the equivalent of hundreds or thousands of dollars into the company.

Thanks for any information or perspective offered.

Rodyland

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Activity: 499

Merit: 500

Quote from: SilentSonicBoom on April 27, 2013, 07:42:29 AM

Funny, being a newer but active member of the forums, I have been thinking this myself. Possibly along the lines of 1/100 a share. Similar to a "penny stock" price (currently about $1.36 a share virtual). I have been contemplating a small fund along this line for the "little guy" to buy some shares. However, this seems to be very time consuming for the operator. Something to think about though. Looking forward to next 5 day update from friedcat. Go AsicMiner!

Unless I'm mistaken, there is no reason any enterprising member couldn't set up their own ASICMINER/100-PT on either (or both of) btct.co or bitfunder (or anywhere else you please). All you'd need is the shares and the willingness to list them for sale on the PT. I agree with 1/100 being a decent multiplier - no point going for 1/10... anyone who can only afford 1/10 of a share can just buy 10x1/100 shares.

And you won't need many shares to get started either - there are 11k shares on btct, so you'd only need 110 shares to get the same number of listed 1/100 shares.

SilentSonicBoom

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Quote from: SebastianJu on April 27, 2013, 07:01:30 AM

Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 06:38:26 AM

With the price of AM shares rising over the previous few months, and with the added increase in USD price, a single AM share now trades for around US$170, which may be a high entry point for first-time investors.

Would it be an idea to do a stock split? A 1/4 stock split, for example, would decrease the barrier of entry and increase the liquidity of the shares. It would also make it easier for AM to get funding because it would decrease the risk for smaller investors (due to increased liquidity) and increase the number of potential investors.

If a stock split isn't an option, how would the community see a fund-style security that trades 1/10 AM shares? In other words, each share in the fund would represent 1/10 of an AM share, with right to 1/10 of the dividends, and no voting rights. I'll assume a trustworthy operator with publicly declared backing of the underlying shares and a reasonable fee.

The complication I see is the transfer between real shares and fund 'shares', so I would think it would be impossible to convert directly. A solution may be that the fund operator agrees to repurchase funds in batches of 10 to be pulled off the market and selling the underlying shares at market value.

.b

I think thats an interesting idea. When its done it should be 1/10 or even 1/20 be to prepare for the future. It would help liquidity and better determine the price. I know that i always have BTC lying around on bitfunder that i cant invest because the shares are priced too high.
Unfortunately it would mean an amount of work for friedcat and team. Thats why i believe that this wont happen in the near future.

But i believe it could be done fully fine if one of the AM-PTs decide to split the shares now. Or even create a new PT. No allowance would be needed for this.

Funny, being a newer but active member of the forums, I have been thinking this myself. Possibly along the lines of 1/100 a share. Similar to a "penny stock" price (currently about $1.36 a share virtual). I have been contemplating a small fund along this line for the "little guy" to buy some shares. However, this seems to be very time consuming for the operator. Something to think about though. Looking forward to next 5 day update from friedcat. Go AsicMiner!

furuknap

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http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: TiuraZ on April 27, 2013, 07:31:10 AM

Quote from: SebastianJu on April 27, 2013, 07:01:30 AM

But i believe it could be done fully fine if one of the AM-PTs decide to split the shares now. Or even create a new PT. No allowance would be needed for this.

This would be the simplest way to do it.

The issue with the PT split idea is that it would require a rewrite, and they wouldn't be PT's in its strictest sense anymore. I doubt the owners would agree to that because it would complicate the entire model.

.b

TiuraZ

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Quote from: SebastianJu on April 27, 2013, 07:01:30 AM

But i believe it could be done fully fine if one of the AM-PTs decide to split the shares now. Or even create a new PT. No allowance would be needed for this.

This would be the simplest way to do it.

arklan

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Quote from: ex-trader on April 27, 2013, 07:15:14 AM

Quote from: SaintFlow on April 27, 2013, 04:16:13 AM

While it sounds interesting in principle I wonder if this does not lead to a inflation of managers and managerial spending.

But if the alternative is having to stop deployment, due to nearing 50%....?

because AM is starting to sell hardware, i can't see how the whole 50% thing will ever be an issue. we establish the goal of whatever percent we want to hold, then sell hardware... hashrate goes up, we deploy more. simple.

heck, it's effectively what i want to have in my own control... (a much, much smaller percentage then AM though...)

ex-trader

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Quote from: SaintFlow on April 27, 2013, 04:16:13 AM

While it sounds interesting in principle I wonder if this does not lead to a inflation of managers and managerial spending.

But if the alternative is having to stop deployment, due to nearing 50%....?

SebastianJu

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Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 06:38:26 AM

With the price of AM shares rising over the previous few months, and with the added increase in USD price, a single AM share now trades for around US$170, which may be a high entry point for first-time investors.

Would it be an idea to do a stock split? A 1/4 stock split, for example, would decrease the barrier of entry and increase the liquidity of the shares. It would also make it easier for AM to get funding because it would decrease the risk for smaller investors (due to increased liquidity) and increase the number of potential investors.

If a stock split isn't an option, how would the community see a fund-style security that trades 1/10 AM shares? In other words, each share in the fund would represent 1/10 of an AM share, with right to 1/10 of the dividends, and no voting rights. I'll assume a trustworthy operator with publicly declared backing of the underlying shares and a reasonable fee.

The complication I see is the transfer between real shares and fund 'shares', so I would think it would be impossible to convert directly. A solution may be that the fund operator agrees to repurchase funds in batches of 10 to be pulled off the market and selling the underlying shares at market value.

.b

I think thats an interesting idea. When its done it should be 1/10 or even 1/20 be to prepare for the future. It would help liquidity and better determine the price. I know that i always have BTC lying around on bitfunder that i cant invest because the shares are priced too high.
Unfortunately it would mean an amount of work for friedcat and team. Thats why i believe that this wont happen in the near future.

But i believe it could be done fully fine if one of the AM-PTs decide to split the shares now. Or even create a new PT. No allowance would be needed for this.

furuknap

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Activity: 294

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http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: lophie on April 27, 2013, 06:55:03 AM

I totally agree with a split 1/10, I was thinking of doing something similar but apparently trust variable here depends on how many posts I made so far Huh

. Maybe another "trusted" member can do this.

The trust issue can be resolved, either by convincing a trusted member to act as operator or by having the shares and dividends held and distributed by escrow.

I'm more interested in whether a split/fund idea will benefit in the way I think or will simply be a waste of time.

.b

lophie

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Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 06:38:26 AM

With the price of AM shares rising over the previous few months, and with the added increase in USD price, a single AM share now trades for around US$170, which may be a high entry point for first-time investors.

Would it be an idea to do a stock split? A 1/4 stock split, for example, would decrease the barrier of entry and increase the liquidity of the shares. It would also make it easier for AM to get funding because it would decrease the risk for smaller investors (due to increased liquidity) and increase the number of potential investors.

If a stock split isn't an option, how would the community see a fund-style security that trades 1/10 AM shares? In other words, each share in the fund would represent 1/10 of an AM share, with right to 1/10 of the dividends, and no voting rights. I'll assume a trustworthy operator with publicly declared backing of the underlying shares and a reasonable fee.

The complication I see is the transfer between real shares and fund 'shares', so I would think it would be impossible to convert directly. A solution may be that the fund operator agrees to repurchase funds in batches of 10 to be pulled off the market and selling the underlying shares at market value.

.b

I totally agree with a split 1/10, I was thinking of doing something similar but apparently trust variable here depends on how many posts I made so far Huh

. Maybe another "trusted" member can do this.

furuknap

sr. member

Activity: 294

Merit: 250

http://coin.furuknap.net/

With the price of AM shares rising over the previous few months, and with the added increase in USD price, a single AM share now trades for around US$170, which may be a high entry point for first-time investors.

Would it be an idea to do a stock split? A 1/4 stock split, for example, would decrease the barrier of entry and increase the liquidity of the shares. It would also make it easier for AM to get funding because it would decrease the risk for smaller investors (due to increased liquidity) and increase the number of potential investors.

If a stock split isn't an option, how would the community see a fund-style security that trades 1/10 AM shares? In other words, each share in the fund would represent 1/10 of an AM share, with right to 1/10 of the dividends, and no voting rights. I'll assume a trustworthy operator with publicly declared backing of the underlying shares and a reasonable fee.

The complication I see is the transfer between real shares and fund 'shares', so I would think it would be impossible to convert directly. A solution may be that the fund operator agrees to repurchase funds in batches of 10 to be pulled off the market and selling the underlying shares at market value.

.b

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