ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1157.

kokojie

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Quote from: ThickAsThieves on April 27, 2013, 10:53:36 AM

Quote from: Mausini on April 27, 2013, 09:18:09 AM

Trying to get the price down?

Yes I did sell my shares, and I would considering buying again at lower prices. However, I have no illusions that the rabid AM masses will let that happen at a sensible price any time soon.

Mostly I'm asking the same thing I asked repeatedly before I sold:
Where the f$@# is all the hashing they promised?

This question should be MORE important to shareholders, so please quit trying to paint me as a manipulator. I am still an investor in bitcoin and watch many things I don't have stake in.

I think at the rate AM is going, you'll be waiting for a long time for cheap shares. I'm not sure if AM will ever be cheap (0.65BTC or less) again, once they are fully deployed, they will likely to keep mining at 30%-40% of BTC network hash rate perpetually, with re-investing of earnings into more hardware. Certainly you will not see cheap shares for this year, since AM will be 50TH in 1-2 months, no other competitor can even come close.

furuknap

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Quote from: Rodyland on April 27, 2013, 07:21:32 PM

Yes, and well done to burnside for implementing this. However a PT-DRIP is not a AM-DRIP. As an AM shareholder, a DRIP is not a feasible option. As a PT-shareholder, go nuts.

Pardon my ignorance, I'm a bit light-headed from watching the new AM blade auction, but I don't really see the difference. A PT or a PT/100 is always backed by an equal amount of regular shares. Although the underlying shares aren't traded publicly, the PT+PT/100 are, the major difference being the lack of voting rights and maybe dividend fees. For users, I fail to see the practical difference.

.b

Rodyland

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Quote from: burnside on April 27, 2013, 07:04:30 PM

Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: Rodyland on April 27, 2013, 05:43:06 PM

A "true" DRIP requires the company either issue more shares, or the company buy shares onmarket to then onsell to shareholders at a predetermined price (eg. 30 day VWAP prior to going ex-div).

I presume nobody who's a shareholder today wants AM to issue more shares, so that leaves AM buying shares onmarket to sell to shareholders. The problem is that AM shares don't "list" anywhere. Short of the auction thread or equivalent, all you can buy is PT shares.

This is already implemented on BTCT. You check off a checkbox and indicate a price you are willing to bid, and the system, I believe, puts out a bid at that level or buys at the lowest ask on the market.

I haven't tested this, though, so perhaps burnside can chime in on how this works?

.b

EDIT: Just in case anyone is confused, the BTCT shares are PT.

That pretty much sums it up. Wink

Yes, and well done to burnside for implementing this. However a PT-DRIP is not a AM-DRIP. As an AM shareholder, a DRIP is not a feasible option. As a PT-shareholder, go nuts.

burnside

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Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 05:45:20 PM

Quote from: Rodyland on April 27, 2013, 05:43:06 PM

A "true" DRIP requires the company either issue more shares, or the company buy shares onmarket to then onsell to shareholders at a predetermined price (eg. 30 day VWAP prior to going ex-div).

I presume nobody who's a shareholder today wants AM to issue more shares, so that leaves AM buying shares onmarket to sell to shareholders. The problem is that AM shares don't "list" anywhere. Short of the auction thread or equivalent, all you can buy is PT shares.

This is already implemented on BTCT. You check off a checkbox and indicate a price you are willing to bid, and the system, I believe, puts out a bid at that level or buys at the lowest ask on the market.

I haven't tested this, though, so perhaps burnside can chime in on how this works?

.b

EDIT: Just in case anyone is confused, the BTCT shares are PT.

That pretty much sums it up. Wink

furuknap

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Quote from: Rodyland on April 27, 2013, 05:43:06 PM

A "true" DRIP requires the company either issue more shares, or the company buy shares onmarket to then onsell to shareholders at a predetermined price (eg. 30 day VWAP prior to going ex-div).

I presume nobody who's a shareholder today wants AM to issue more shares, so that leaves AM buying shares onmarket to sell to shareholders. The problem is that AM shares don't "list" anywhere. Short of the auction thread or equivalent, all you can buy is PT shares.

This is already implemented on BTCT. You check off a checkbox and indicate a price you are willing to bid, and the system, I believe, puts out a bid at that level or buys at the lowest ask on the market.

I haven't tested this, though, so perhaps burnside can chime in on how this works?

.b

EDIT: Just in case anyone is confused, the BTCT shares are PT.

Rodyland

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Activity: 499

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Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 04:44:29 PM

Quote from: thatbluedude on April 27, 2013, 04:42:20 PM

I would actually support something like this. I would love to set my shares to say 25% divident reinvest, but 1btc/share doesn't make this very workable for smalltime investors.

This is another good point; DRIP now is virtually impossible for smaller investors. With a 1/100 PT, it would make it more feasible.

.b

A "true" DRIP requires the company either issue more shares, or the company buy shares onmarket to then onsell to shareholders at a predetermined price (eg. 30 day VWAP prior to going ex-div).

I presume nobody who's a shareholder today wants AM to issue more shares, so that leaves AM buying shares onmarket to sell to shareholders. The problem is that AM shares don't "list" anywhere. Short of the auction thread or equivalent, all you can buy is PT shares.

TiuraZ

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Quote from: Mausini on April 27, 2013, 02:16:19 PM

Quote from: JaredR26 on April 27, 2013, 01:26:18 PM

Quote from: velacreations on April 27, 2013, 12:26:05 PM

Quote from: friedcat on April 27, 2013, 12:22:10 PM

The 15TH/s is just the following one week's schedule.

Some of the rest hashpower will be sold, some of them will be deployed in the weeks following the next week. The larger portion of them will still be deployed by ourselves.

Since we already had 7.5 TH/s deployed, it seems like you are deploying 7.5 TH/s this week. Is that the weekly goal for deployment, 7.5 TH/s? Or do you plan more for next week?

Friedcat & co own more of AM than all of us put together. They have all the motivation in the world to deploy as fast as is safely possible. You and everyone else here armchair-speculating about their activities and second-guessing the roadblocks and speed they have helps NO ONE.

It is pretty obvious that Friedcat believes that 7.5 TH/s is a reasonable estimate for the fastest they can possibly deploy. If he could go faster, do you not think that he would? 7.5 TH/s is *750* hashing boards that have to be mounted, powered up, firmware-flashed, pointed to the pool and debugged. If the racks aren't fully in place, that's ~37 racks that have to be built. And that isn't even talking about cooling. At least one in 100 is going to have a short that requires diagnostics. "Plan for more next week?" lol. Give him a fucking break. I highly doubt any of them plan to do anything except 15 hour days 7 days a week for the next MONTH. Honestly I'd rather them slow it down a little bit as needed because tired people make mistakes, and mistakes could cost thousands.

As far as the other people asking what happened to the other ~5.8 TH/s from the original 12, they ran into power issues. Powering 750 hashing boards is no easy feat. They had timed the expansion of their power capacity with the delivery of the next 50 TH/s, rather perfectly I might add. So now they both have more power and they have the 50TH/s. So theoretically they can bring online 55.7 TH/s now, although we are selling so it won't be quite that much.

/rant

Thank you for writing this down. I hope many potential and current investors read it and recognize, they have fully ALIGNED INTERESTS with bitfountain. Friedcat could promise you everything under the sun. But that's more, say, BFL's thing. Friedcat is more in the delivering business Grin

word +1

aahzmundus

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On the topic of split shares... such a thing should be done with a PT, in fact... I see no reason Burnside could not just make shares dividable to x decimal places. Instead of indicating a number of shares to buy... you indicate a price and how much you can spend, and done. No need to actually split the shares, just sell fractions of a share.

As was stated, many people could probably afford to buy a small portion of a share, more then can currently invest... so I am sure burnside will eventually do this as it would be in his own best interest in the future, unless there is something I am missing here.

furuknap

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Quote from: thatbluedude on April 27, 2013, 04:42:20 PM

I would actually support something like this. I would love to set my shares to say 25% divident reinvest, but 1btc/share doesn't make this very workable for smalltime investors.

This is another good point; DRIP now is virtually impossible for smaller investors. With a 1/100 PT, it would make it more feasible.

.b

thatbluedude

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on April 27, 2013, 03:25:01 PM

Let's divide AM shares up to 8 decimal points and the lowest will be called "friedcat" Cheesy

I would actually support something like this. I would love to set my shares to say 25% divident reinvest, but 1btc/share doesn't make this very workable for smalltime investors.

velacreations

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Quote from: VJain on April 27, 2013, 03:38:13 PM

Quote from: JimiQ84 on April 27, 2013, 03:25:01 PM

Let's divide AM shares up to 8 decimal points and the lowest will be called "friedcat" Cheesy

I own 1.3 trillion friedcats! woohoo!

back in the old days, a friedcat couldn't even buy a soda...

Now, I can buy a whole country with one!

VJain

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on April 27, 2013, 03:25:01 PM

Let's divide AM shares up to 8 decimal points and the lowest will be called "friedcat" Cheesy

I own 1.3 trillion friedcats! woohoo!

JimiQ84

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Let's divide AM shares up to 8 decimal points and the lowest will be called "friedcat" Cheesy

furuknap

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Quote from: gog1 on April 27, 2013, 02:37:33 PM

Some propose splitting the shares (or the passthrough splitting the share) - in theory, it helps the liquidity; in practice, I've reservations. Just look at the bid-ask spread of Satoshi Dice, even though the stock price is "low" in absolute terms and there are gazillion shares out there. As a percent of the stock price, it's usually pretty bad even though the share price is a lot lower.

I agree with this in terms of S-DICE, but I'm not sure that S-DICE has the same attention and attractiveness as AM, especially with the recent turbulence around its operations and the absence of feedback from evoorhees (both now resolved).

I believe AM is a 'better' entry point into BTC investments and that most people considering investing will realize this. A low absolute price is not a selling point alone, but a high one may prevent people from getting in. Some smaller investors may look at putting 2-3 BTC into a stock (we're still talking $300-500 which to many non-Westerners may be a lot of capital), and with the current AM prices, they will get 1-2 shares with a 'lot' of left-over investment potential. Scale that to a few thousand users and the shares miss out on a fair amount of revenue.

.b

furuknap

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Quote from: gog1 on April 27, 2013, 02:37:33 PM

The last auction is very successful, but I think starting a 48 hour auction on Sunday is a bit better. I speculate that business is a bit slow on a weekend.

It can cut both ways. Keep in mind a lot of people are amateur miners and may have daytime jobs that prevent them from being online during the critical closing hours if it were on a weekday.

Also, it's already Sunday morning in China :-)

.b

JaredR26

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Quote from: gog1 on April 27, 2013, 02:37:33 PM

The last auction is very successful, but I think starting a 48 hour auction on Sunday is a bit better. I speculate that business is a bit slow on a weekend.

Some propose splitting the shares (or the passthrough splitting the share) - in theory, it helps the liquidity; in practice, I've reservations. Just look at the bid-ask spread of Satoshi Dice, even though the stock price is "low" in absolute terms and there are gazillion shares out there. As a percent of the stock price, it's usually pretty bad even though the share price is a lot lower.

Hmm, good point. That might have been a mistake.

Hopefully people will check Bitcoin news on Sunday night.

gog1

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The last auction is very successful, but I think starting a 48 hour auction on Sunday is a bit better. I speculate that business is a bit slow on a weekend.

Some propose splitting the shares (or the passthrough splitting the share) - in theory, it helps the liquidity; in practice, I've reservations. Just look at the bid-ask spread of Satoshi Dice, even though the stock price is "low" in absolute terms and there are gazillion shares out there. As a percent of the stock price, it's usually pretty bad even though the share price is a lot lower.

Mausini

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Quote from: JaredR26 on April 27, 2013, 01:26:18 PM

Quote from: velacreations on April 27, 2013, 12:26:05 PM

Quote from: friedcat on April 27, 2013, 12:22:10 PM

The 15TH/s is just the following one week's schedule.

Some of the rest hashpower will be sold, some of them will be deployed in the weeks following the next week. The larger portion of them will still be deployed by ourselves.

Since we already had 7.5 TH/s deployed, it seems like you are deploying 7.5 TH/s this week. Is that the weekly goal for deployment, 7.5 TH/s? Or do you plan more for next week?

Friedcat & co own more of AM than all of us put together. They have all the motivation in the world to deploy as fast as is safely possible. You and everyone else here armchair-speculating about their activities and second-guessing the roadblocks and speed they have helps NO ONE.

It is pretty obvious that Friedcat believes that 7.5 TH/s is a reasonable estimate for the fastest they can possibly deploy. If he could go faster, do you not think that he would? 7.5 TH/s is *750* hashing boards that have to be mounted, powered up, firmware-flashed, pointed to the pool and debugged. If the racks aren't fully in place, that's ~37 racks that have to be built. And that isn't even talking about cooling. At least one in 100 is going to have a short that requires diagnostics. "Plan for more next week?" lol. Give him a fucking break. I highly doubt any of them plan to do anything except 15 hour days 7 days a week for the next MONTH. Honestly I'd rather them slow it down a little bit as needed because tired people make mistakes, and mistakes could cost thousands.

As far as the other people asking what happened to the other ~5.8 TH/s from the original 12, they ran into power issues. Powering 750 hashing boards is no easy feat. They had timed the expansion of their power capacity with the delivery of the next 50 TH/s, rather perfectly I might add. So now they both have more power and they have the 50TH/s. So theoretically they can bring online 55.7 TH/s now, although we are selling so it won't be quite that much.

/rant

Thank you for writing this down. I hope many potential and current investors read it and recognize, they have fully ALIGNED INTERESTS with bitfountain. Friedcat could promise you everything under the sun. But that's more, say, BFL's thing. Friedcat is more in the delivering business Grin

arklan

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Quote from: furuknap on April 27, 2013, 01:56:20 PM

Quote from: JaredR26 on April 27, 2013, 01:48:46 PM

So someone should read this message and go set it up right now.

I think I'll do just that...

I'll work on my credibility, but will be open to suggestions on acquiring the trust required. I'm fairly open about my real-life identity, and I would seek the advice of the existing pass-through operators both in forming the contract and in the continuous operation of the split-PT.

I would also put at least some of my PT shares up for such a project.

.b

i'd be happy to help, though my "trust level" isn't terribly high either, i suppose... never had a problem, just not done much beyond buy some steam games and ...uh... 1 asicminer share... *cough*

well, technically, 6... i bout 5 at IPO but sold them shortly before the glbse collapse. recently bought another from ineedausername.

furuknap

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Quote from: JaredR26 on April 27, 2013, 01:48:46 PM

So someone should read this message and go set it up right now.

I think I'll do just that...

I'll work on my credibility, but will be open to suggestions on acquiring the trust required. I'm fairly open about my real-life identity, and I would seek the advice of the existing pass-through operators both in forming the contract and in the continuous operation of the split-PT.

I would also put at least some of my PT shares up for such a project.

.b

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