ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1173.

Mausini

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I'm not so sure it wont last. Speaking of profit maximization it might be a good idea to always sell hardware in auctions. The market is quite dynamic, as we all know Grin

I'm just saying IF auction continues to be the selling mode, a proprietary platform would probably be the way to go.

It would maximize profits while keeping things efficient and handable, hence it would provide added value to the whole operation. And you know, once there is some volume on the platform, who knows what else you could auction there in the future.

Regarding a proprietary trading platform for shares, I believe the market found its own way. Might be nice to have a platform, but it doesnt seem necessary at the moment.

To be honest I have a slight feeling ASICMINER is planning on integrating both platforms in one. Friedcat mentioned, their planned platform would be quite innovative in itself. The auctioning functionality for hardware could be this innovative aspect. And indeed it would be quite interesting to have shares and hardware sales wrapped up in the same place. Kind of a perfectly efficient market. Have you ever seen something like it in the real world? No? Welcome to the possibilities of bitcoin!

Quote from: friedcat on April 19, 2013, 12:06:02 PM

Update

We are getting ready for the arrival of our assembled blades. The development of USB-stick miners is actively on the way and heading to its sample batch. The series of the auction will last for several rounds and include the USB-stick miners in later rounds when they are out.

arklan

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seemed the forum worked fine to my bystander eyes.

DutchBrat

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Quote from: Mausini on April 20, 2013, 07:01:54 AM

If auctioning mode continues to be THE way for ASICMINER to sell hardware, a proprietary platform may actually make sense this time.

Friedcat stated the whole point of running auctions for a few weeks is to establish a pricing point for mass 'buyatthisprice' selling of blades.... So a proprietary auctionplatform might be overdone, especially since we are still waiting on their proprietary exchange.....

Mausini

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If auctioning mode continues to be THE way for ASICMINER to sell hardware, a proprietary platform may actually make sense this time.

Aajo

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Is there no alternative to ebay where you can pay with btc yet? Something tells me ebay will never accept bitcoins.

237

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Quote from: Mausini on April 20, 2013, 06:28:05 AM

Quote from: romerun on April 20, 2013, 05:48:53 AM

If the goal is to maximize profit, how about friedcat to offer them over ebay ? Avalon batch 2 preorder has just priced at $50,000 . I'm pretty sure if the usb thing is auctioned here, some will be reauctioned at the bay at 10 folds price tag. Rich people could buy them just because they are rare and so cute.

It also promotes bitcoin and the company outside the community.

I'm sure they will look into it. Beside the fact that the Avalon ebay auction you mentioned and ASICMINER's 10 blade auction yielded comparable returns, you would get USD and not BTC on ebay. There are also fees you have to pay. It may be not in the spirit of what we do here, on the other hand it could be an effective hedge against USD/BTC dropping.

I will continue to trust their judgement on those decisions, because they have proven their capabilities so often and in so many ways.

I agree. Auctioning in USD is not the way of ASICMINER. They always made all transaction with shareholders in BTC and should do that with the auction of equipment to third parties as well.

Especially since USD has been totally unstable in value the last month with wild swings between 0.004 and 0.02 BTC/USD.

arklan

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Get a share while they're still cheap.

if i had more then .75 i would...

Mausini

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Quote from: romerun on April 20, 2013, 05:48:53 AM

If the goal is to maximize profit, how about friedcat to offer them over ebay ? Avalon batch 2 preorder has just priced at $50,000 . I'm pretty sure if the usb thing is auctioned here, some will be reauctioned at the bay at 10 folds price tag. Rich people could buy them just because they are rare and so cute.

It also promotes bitcoin and the company outside the community.

I'm sure they will look into it. Beside the fact that the Avalon ebay auction you mentioned and ASICMINER's 10 blade auction yielded comparable returns, you would get USD and not BTC on ebay. There are also fees you have to pay. It may be not in the spirit of what we do here, on the other hand it could be an effective hedge against USD/BTC dropping.

I will continue to trust their judgement on those decisions, because they have proven their capabilities so often and in so many ways.

romerun

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Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl.

If the goal is to maximize profit, how about friedcat to offer them over ebay ? Avalon batch 2 preorder has just priced at $50,000 . I'm pretty sure if the usb thing is auctioned here, some will be reauctioned at the bay at 10 folds price tag. Rich people could buy them just because they are rare and so cute.

It also promotes bitcoin and the company outside the community.

Mausini

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Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 11:20:28 PM

Quote from: Xendrios on April 19, 2013, 05:33:01 PM

special discounts for shareholders would cut into the profit and thus shareholders dividend. So those shareholders not buying anything would be left with less dividend, paying for the discount of the shareholders using the discount. So no, I don't think it would be a wise thing to offer discounts to shareholders. Also, with 400k total shares basically all of bitcoinland could own one...

Of course I am not saying that ASICMINER should offer some kind of massive, margin eating discount. Also: It's not like any of the ASIC products are established products or even 'iPod plug and play'. We are talking about a product with a so far relatively small circle of people with the competence and interest in using it.

Of course, I want to see ASICMINER succeed, but I still like the idea of them 'testing out' their product using their share holders as a 'early adopter' base. I think it would be more then fair to assume that the people that frequent this forum, trade in BTC Stock and mine already are pretty much the best 'spokespeople' that ASICMINER could ask for when (hopefully) gearing up for mass production of BTC mining equipment.

I also don't see the 'harm' in 'rewarding' people who have already given them a vote of confidence by investing in them with a chance to try out a product before it hits 'market'.

You give some interesting suggestions. All of that is nice to have. But think about it. How does it maximize profit for shareholders in any way? It's more like a wish list of what would be great without digging a little deeper. What i meant with my "dumbest comment" you have ever seen or so is the following:

What Friedcat and his team do is developing, (producing,) deploying, operating and selling mining hardware. The one big goal of doing that is to maximize profits for shareholders. However, to achieve maximum profits they have to take a lot of management decisions, for example the decison to start selling hardware now, the decision to sell hardware in auctions and not for a fixed price etc. etc. And believe me that is what they are really really good at and where the true value of this company comes from: the team. Now, in all the decisions they took, they maximized profits for their shareholders, be it the auctioning of hardware (maximizing profits) or the coming huge success (mark my words) of mining bee usb sticks. I just dont believe they will give their products to shareholders cheaper or earlier because it's kind of nice or whatever. And anyway that would not make sense.

maxmint

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Quote from: markm on April 20, 2013, 04:38:25 AM

How do you get actual shares though? Some posts in last few pages seem to suggest that neither of the exchanges that have them have the real shares, just some kind of passthrough stuff?

-MarkM-

1. You can buy PT shares and then convert them to real shares.
2. You can buy real shares at auctions held here at the forum.

markm

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How do you get actual shares though? Some posts in last few pages seem to suggest that neither of the exchanges that have them have the real shares, just some kind of passthrough stuff?

-MarkM-

arklan

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now, here's a question for ya. 300 mhash usb miner, or 1 share of AM? obviously over time the miner would barely bring in anything, while the share would grow. but right now, the miner would bring in significantly more per week.

thoughts? (just a "hmm. i wonder..." not an actual decision i'm looking at.)

TheSwede75

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Quote from: Xendrios on April 19, 2013, 05:33:01 PM

special discounts for shareholders would cut into the profit and thus shareholders dividend. So those shareholders not buying anything would be left with less dividend, paying for the discount of the shareholders using the discount. So no, I don't think it would be a wise thing to offer discounts to shareholders. Also, with 400k total shares basically all of bitcoinland could own one...

Of course I am not saying that ASICMINER should offer some kind of massive, margin eating discount. Also: It's not like any of the ASIC products are established products or even 'iPod plug and play'. We are talking about a product with a so far relatively small circle of people with the competence and interest in using it.

Of course, I want to see ASICMINER succeed, but I still like the idea of them 'testing out' their product using their share holders as a 'early adopter' base. I think it would be more then fair to assume that the people that frequent this forum, trade in BTC Stock and mine already are pretty much the best 'spokespeople' that ASICMINER could ask for when (hopefully) gearing up for mass production of BTC mining equipment.

I also don't see the 'harm' in 'rewarding' people who have already given them a vote of confidence by investing in them with a chance to try out a product before it hits 'market'.

furuknap

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http://coin.furuknap.net/

Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 11:15:02 PM

I am fairly certain that if you own 1% of apple, you can expect your iPad order to be filled fairly quickly yes.

I'm fairly certain that if you own 1% of Apple, you already have an iPad.

.b

TheSwede75

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on April 19, 2013, 02:00:18 PM

Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 01:56:14 PM

May be the dumbest comment I have seen in a while. There is no incentive to treat your share holders well? Oh, well I guess every company in the world has it wrong then. My bad!

So Apple shareholders have discount on iPad and Microsoft shareholders have discount on Surface. That's what you are saying?

I am fairly certain that if you own 1% of apple, you can expect your iPad order to be filled fairly quickly yes.

radiumsoup

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Quote from: Mausini on April 19, 2013, 12:25:43 PM

"'incentive' that could also help bring attention to investing in ASICMINER" is certainly not friedcat's concern. why? because bitfountain is not selling any shares and wont be for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, there should be NO special treatment of shareholders. There is no overall profit maximizing effect in favoring shareholders. If you want to buy, buy like everyone else.

you beat me to it - no new investors are being courted, and original investors are already made whole. Best thing for everyone involved is to find the best balance between mining and hardware sales, and treat existing shareholders as nothing but the target for dividends that they are. (Personally, I think it would be best to mine as much as possible with this hardware while developing the next gen, and then start selling the current hardware right as nextgen is rolled out for our own mining process... basically, mine with cutting edge while selling the stuff we just finished mining with. Of course, I don't have enough info to do the actual math to see if that's really the best way to go, but that's my perspective from way over here)

Xendrios

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special discounts for shareholders would cut into the profit and thus shareholders dividend. So those shareholders not buying anything would be left with less dividend, paying for the discount of the shareholders using the discount. So no, I don't think it would be a wise thing to offer discounts to shareholders. Also, with 400k total shares basically all of bitcoinland could own one...

kokojie

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Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 01:56:14 PM

Quote from: Mausini on April 19, 2013, 12:25:43 PM

Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 12:10:51 PM

Quote from: friedcat on April 19, 2013, 12:06:02 PM

Update

We are getting ready for the arrival of our assembled blades. The development of USB-stick miners is actively on the way and heading to its sample batch. The series of the auction will last for several rounds and include the USB-stick miners in later rounds when they are out.

I think a nice 'incentive' that could also help bring attention to investing in ASICMINER would be to offer the USB stick miners to share holders only (if possible) or offer a hefty 'early bird' discount to share holders.

My 2 Satoshi

"'incentive' that could also help bring attention to investing in ASICMINER" is certainly not friedcat's concern. why? because bitfountain is not selling any shares and wont be for the foreseeable future.

Anyway, there should be NO special treatment of shareholders. There is no overall profit maximizing effect in favoring shareholders. If you want to buy, buy like everyone else.

May be the dumbest comment I have seen in a while. There is no incentive to treat your share holders well? Oh, well I guess every company in the world has it wrong then. My bad!

What company give their shareholder special discount on their products? I've only heard of companies sending coupons with annual reports to shareholders, but these coupons are available elsewhere, not exclusively to shareholders.

Jutarul

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on April 19, 2013, 02:00:18 PM

Quote from: TheSwede75 on April 19, 2013, 01:56:14 PM

May be the dumbest comment I have seen in a while. There is no incentive to treat your share holders well? Oh, well I guess every company in the world has it wrong then. My bad!

So Apple shareholders have discount on iPad and Microsoft shareholders have discount on Surface. That's what you are saying?

Special treatment is usually reserved for employees or business partners, as they make up the core of the operating business.

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