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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1176. (Read 3917543 times)

sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250
Um... no that's not simple math, you are basing your math on the assumption that mining will only depend on block reward, which means mining will stop once block reward is negligible. That's simply false, if mining were to stop once block reward is negligible, then Bitcoin would have failed at that point, due to no network security.

It is expected that transaction fee will make up for block reward, we are already seeing average transaction fee of nearly 1 BTC per block as of now. Transaction fee will go higher as adoption grows.

Also you are not taking into account of blade miners and possibly USB miners that AM is currently selling at insanely high profit margins that will bring large and fast short term cash dividend to investors.

I suggest you re-read what I wrote, my last sentence stated clearly my analysis excluded fees ie block fees and also sales from selling hardware devices ie new ASIC sticks or others.

Both of these are hard to forecast, as is the offsetting future costs of running the ASICs and the business overheads, which were similarly ignored for the purposes of the simple analysis.
donator
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
I imagine we will all be able to buy these shares back at .85 by Monday.


Depending on today's update, I strongly doubt it. I seriously hope that I'm wrong though, I'd kill for the opportunity to grab up more shares at that price.
Now's your chance, the price just hit .836


Trust me, I'm buying.    Grin
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1003
Here's the simple maths of valuing ASICMiner:

There are 10Mn BTC unmined approximately.
ASIC Miner have 400,000 shares.
If ASIC Miner could mine 10% of all coins forever, then they mine 1Mn BTC for a total of 2.5 BTC/share (ie 1Mn/400k)
Assuming that an investor wanted a positive net return then they'd pay less than 2.5BTC to buy that income stream, probably nearer 1BTC, for a roughly 25% IRR over the long holding period.

The question therefore is what hash-share can ASICMiner hit and maintain, if they can go well over 10% then they're a good buy.

Note all the above is very simple, since it excludes running costs for ASICMiner (incl electricity), but also excludes other sources of income such as fees and profits from selling devices.

Um... no that's not simple math, you are basing your math on the assumption that mining will only depend on block reward, which means mining will stop once block reward is negligible. That's simply false, if mining were to stop once block reward is negligible, then Bitcoin would have failed at that point, due to no network security.

It is expected that transaction fee will make up for block reward, we are already seeing average transaction fee of nearly 1 BTC per block as of now. Transaction fee will go higher as adoption grows.

Also you are not taking into account of blade miners and possibly USB miners that AM is currently selling at insanely high profit margins that will bring large and fast short term cash dividend to investors.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
I imagine we will all be able to buy these shares back at .85 by Monday.


Depending on today's update, I strongly doubt it. I seriously hope that I'm wrong though, I'd kill for the opportunity to grab up more shares at that price.
Now's your chance, the price just hit .836
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Depending on today's update, I strongly doubt it. I seriously hope that I'm wrong though, I'd kill for the opportunity to grab up more shares at that price.

there's no demand in the market.  No one is buying, and everyone wants to sell.  

Look at the orders on the exchanges, we're like 16 shares away from .85 on bitfunder.  No one is taking sell orders, they just keep getting lower and lower.

There's decent support in the low .80's, the level we were at before the mini-bubble.
donator
Activity: 294
Merit: 250
Already sold Cheesy

Might be the only time I've ever timed this crap right. Make up for some sdice losses.

yeah, I had some sell orders set at 1.3 at bitfunder.  I had forgotten about those, they were put there when I first bought a few at .7

Lucky me, I made a few thousand $$$ on a mistake.

I imagine we will all be able to buy these shares back at .85 by Monday.


Depending on today's update, I strongly doubt it. I seriously hope that I'm wrong though, I'd kill for the opportunity to grab up more shares at that price.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Already sold Cheesy

Might be the only time I've ever timed this crap right. Make up for some sdice losses.

yeah, I had some sell orders set at 1.3 at bitfunder.  I had forgotten about those, they were put there when I first bought a few at .7

Lucky me, I made a few thousand $$$ on a mistake.

I imagine we will all be able to buy these shares back at .85 by Monday.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1020
Be A Digital Miner
and what if they kept 30% of the mining share? 

Then it's be worth at least 3BTC per share right now.

From the above you can also see that the theoretical value is capped at 5BTC on the basis of a max 50% share.

Of course if there's another use for ASICs, like mining another coin, or selling the computational power to another type of user (military/commercial/financial) then there's more upside.
and what if they sold 50TH at 7BTC per GH?
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250
and what if they kept 30% of the mining share? 

Then it's be worth at least 3BTC per share right now.

From the above you can also see that the theoretical value is capped at 5BTC on the basis of a max 50% share.

Of course if there's another use for ASICs, like mining another coin, or selling the computational power to another type of user (military/commercial/financial) then there's more upside.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1020
Be A Digital Miner
Here's the simple maths of valuing ASICMiner:

There are 10Mn BTC unmined approximately.
ASIC Miner have 400,000 shares.
If ASIC Miner could mine 10% of all coins forever, then they mine 1Mn BTC for a total of 2.5 BTC/share (ie 1Mn/400k)
Assuming that an investor wanted a positive net return then they'd pay less than 2.5BTC to buy that income stream, probably nearer 1BTC, for a roughly 25% IRR over the long holding period.

The question therefore is what hash-share can ASICMiner hit and maintain, if they can go well over 10% then they're a good buy.

Note all the above is very simple, since it excludes running costs for ASICMiner (incl electricity), but also excludes other sources of income such as fees and profits from selling devices.
and what if they kept 30% of the mining share? 
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250
Here's the simple maths of valuing ASICMiner:

There are 10Mn BTC unmined approximately.
ASIC Miner have 400,000 shares.
If ASIC Miner could mine 10% of all coins forever, then they mine 1Mn BTC for a total of 2.5 BTC/share (ie 1Mn/400k)
Assuming that an investor wanted a positive net return then they'd pay less than 2.5BTC to buy that income stream, probably nearer 1BTC, for a roughly 25% IRR over the long holding period.

The question therefore is what hash-share can ASICMiner hit and maintain, if they can go well over 10% then they're a good buy.

Note all the above is very simple, since it excludes running costs for ASICMiner (incl electricity), but also excludes other sources of income such as fees and profits from selling devices.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
WTF???
looks like share price is dropping back down...  Grin

people selling while they can.

Already sold Cheesy

Might be the only time I've ever timed this crap right. Make up for some sdice losses.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
looks like share price is dropping back down...  Grin

people selling while they can.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250

The bigger ASICMiner gets the less variance it will have in earnings, therefore the less value being part of a pool provides, other than in terms of making the true production rate visible.

There is only one statistic that truly matters above all else and that is share of global hashrate. It doesn't matter what the actual difficulty level is provided that pool share can be maintained. That should be a big factor in how they decide between selling/operating any units that are produced.

That's true. Actually, when AM deploys rest of batch 1, it's gonna be bigger than any pool except BTC Guild. So... what variance? It's gonna have smaller variance than pools!
sr. member
Activity: 298
Merit: 250

The bigger ASICMiner gets the less variance it will have in earnings, therefore the less value being part of a pool provides, other than in terms of making the true production rate visible.

There is only one statistic that truly matters above all else and that is share of global hashrate. It doesn't matter what the actual difficulty level is provided that pool share can be maintained. That should be a big factor in how they decide between selling/operating any units that are produced.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
How did you come up with 5% Fees?

1. It's 3% Fees
2. TX-Fees are payed out
3. Very realiable mining possible

So do your math again please.

You are correct we are not on PPS!  I appreciate you warned me about this.
I know we are supporting one of the most reliable pools, but as the thing gets big and big, solo mining sounds good too, , and with this hashrate variance sould not be a problem and imagine all the good luck we can get, at least a better deal regarding fees, like others said above.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
... it only gets better...
People just want to do business with AM. I think its a good thing.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 1083
Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile
I was just wondering if someone could explain why the price of the ASICs is so high.
People are paying the same price as an avalon batch 3 for something that's only 1/6 of the power.

Avalons sold cheaper but later they sold for a multiple of that price on ebay. So avalon lost income. Asicminer doesnt want this so they auction it from the start.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1020
Be A Digital Miner
I was just wondering if someone could explain why the price of the ASICs is so high.
People are paying the same price as an avalon batch 3 for something that's only 1/6 of the power.
Also apparently BFL jalapenos will be shipping in the next couple of weeks which have half the hashing power but cost like 20-30x less.
Is it just that ASICMiner are the only company with Asics ready to go now (Avalon having sold out and BFL doing their usual).
Don't get me wrong, i'm only too pleased people are paying so much for the asics, the price of my ASICminer-PT stock has shot up. I'm just curious as to why
People are sick of waiting for their ASICS and having BFL stringing them along for so long.
As the saying goes Incompetence is tantamount to fraud.    So when there is so much "fraud" or incompetence going on in asics, it only make sense that people pay a premium for something that is actually real.
full member
Activity: 223
Merit: 100
I was just wondering if someone could explain why the price of the ASICs is so high.
People are paying the same price as an avalon batch 3 for something that's only 1/6 of the power.
Also apparently BFL jalapenos will be shipping in the next couple of weeks which have half the hashing power but cost like 20-30x less.

Is it just that ASICMiner are the only company with Asics ready to go now (Avalon having sold out and BFL doing their usual).

Don't get me wrong, i'm only too pleased people are paying so much for the asics, the price of my ASICminer-PT stock has shot up. I'm just curious as to why

Having the very first and legendary ASICs as trophy is the key to understanding Smiley
And this trophy is unique in the way that it will most likely pay for itself.
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