Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1178. (Read 3917543 times)

For the record, I no longer hold any AM shares, and you might recall me questioning the price earlier today. Used to hold about 350, now I have $ instead.

I do think AM is a pretty cool company, and their latest hardware releases are cool too. Just not 1.6btc/share cool, nor 60btc per blade cool.

For those of you who think share value should not be influenced by USD/BTC value consider these points:

1. If BTC were worth $1, is a mining investment better or worse? How about $1000?
2. If one sells their shares at 1btc+, sells that btc at $90, and USD/BTC falls to $45, AND share value doesn't move, how many shares can I buy if I use my cash?
3. If the % of AM network hashing decreases, and difficulty increases, and BTC/USD stays the same, do you value your shares the same?

I think so too... how can one think its overvalued when only the start of the auctions lead to a doubled shareprice? Then there is no reason to believe that Asicminer will stop working soon. They have a valueable knowledge, they can chorn out Asicminers cheap and fast and it will be no problem in the future to rule nearly half of the hashingpower of the network. Who will compete against? Even above that range they could sell Miners to maximize the profit.
And its already announced that the power supply problems will be solved. That means the hashrate will rise soon. And the auctions started... that means earnings from selling miners.
So i only think the buyers, like myself, i bought some days ago some more shares, see the potential of Asicminer. You shouldnt judge the value only on the dividends. If one would try that no one should have invested in Asicminer at the start because no dividends happened there for a long time. No people invest again into future dividends. I dont see thats wrong.
Of course something can happen again that prevents further deployment... but in the long run... Asicminer will rule. If you think thats wrong please explain.

Well, you didn't offer me any!! 

If it was well argued that would be one thing.  mrb is basically like  "nope, asicminer never intended to sell"  "nope, asicminer never intended to do more than 12TH"  "nope asicminer doesnt have potential past what is 2 weeks in front of my face,  nope nope nope"

Overvalued today?  Sure maybe a little,  but what are people expecting?  A 300% dividend yield annually?  I'm no securities expert but if this was on the NASDAQ with audited financials it would be trading at like 5+ btc and yielding like 15% max.


 
Definitely not no religious fanatic and have some concerns of my own.  However, trying to deny that their was never a plan to sell or never a plan to expand, or invest into next gen technology?   Man,  these were the reasons i bought to begin with!

Rodyland: and what makes you think I have not started selling my shares?

Just like the Bitcoin bubble to $266. I was openly saying it was a bubble and that a crash was coming. And I acted accordingly selling some of my BTC holdings.

I do not understand why you see my arguments as "FUD" or "trolling". I think I express my ideas and reasoning clearly.

Youre right... it was a long time this way.


On what base do you value the asicminer shares to say that they are overvalued? Mostly the values are only made up from the payment of dividends. If that would be the correct way to determine the value then apple stocks wouldnt have had a value in the past when they didnt pay dividends.
So the value of the shares in first part are showing the value of a part of the company. And thats a different thing then. Because what value does Asicminer has divided through 400,000 shares? Thats not only the price of the current hardware, its the 250TH that are already paid and i believe the knowledge for the Asicchips are worth something too. Then think about the datacenter they created and so on.
Its the same like a miner isnt worth only the dividend. The miner is worth its worth for itself and the dividends on top.
So i dont think that the dividend is the only value to take into account.


There was a plan. And this plan was to mine for the company as far as possible. Because thats the most valuable. So i dont get what youre speaking about that not selling in the near future is the same as having no vision and no plan. Or that selling would be better then selfmine. You have to be lucky to get the same revenue out of selling instead of selfmining. Because a buyer wants to break even in some time. If you mine for yourself you can mine even after months with breakeven. It mines and mines while a sell is a one-time-gain and later others earn the money.

His "opinion" doesn't upset me.

What "upsets" me is his opinion is not really his opinion - well argued or not.  If he truly believed what he claims then he'd sell his shares today, before the market regains its senses.  Even buy back in later and make a killing, if that's his thing.

He isn't selling his shares, so he's not really expressing his opinion - he's trolling and spreading FUD.

Because they are trolling themselves

I value mrb's opinion and share some of his concerns.
Same as I value the knowledge that we have some religious fanatics in shareholder group

Having a well argued opinion is not trolling. Why does mrb's opinion upset you so much?

You stated that the shares are overvalued:


You even quoted yourself stating that AM shares are overpriced:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1613133

You claim you're not FUDing the price down, and merely sharing your opinion:


So, you honestly believe AM shares are overpriced, and you are merely sharing your opinion.  Fine, money talks and bullshit walks - sell your shares, or STFU and stop trolling.

Agree with most of your post, but just a little nitpick/correction... While it is true that for the longest time Apple did not pay dividends and shareholders held because of the value of the company, Apple has started paying dividends since Aug. 2012.

Yes, it's overvalued due to constant hype by it's backers and shareholders. No chance it's shares should have that price based on strictly economic value. It doesn't matter for people who hold those shares as long as they profit from them of course, and it would probably be profitable to buy them at these prices but they are overvalued, just as those asic boards being sold on auction now.

AM looks like one of rare reliable companies people were investing into here so everyone get excited when they fart specially when "everyone" hold some of their shares. Fair play, I'm cool with it but I don't buy "it's not overvalued" bullshit because it is. 60 btc for 10 GH hashing power, lol and share gets doubled for that. ycnmiu

I was making a point, not trolling. I wanted to underline the difference between a company having a vague idea ("we may want to sell hw in the future") versus a company having a clear execution plan ("we will sell product X, having specs X, at price X, we estimate X in revenues, the risks are X, we will do X to minimize them").

Eventually, a company that has a clear vision and plan is more valuable than a company with the same resources and people but with no vision and no plan.

I have argued in the past that ASICMINER should sell hardware. Even today, friedcat is not saying much about his plan. How many blades will he sell? How will he determine the price? Will he continue to do auctions or set fixed prices? If all these questions were answered, it would raise the value of ASICMINER in my eyes.

So... Whilst maybe not technically trolling, the difference doesn't really seem worth splitting hairs over .

So mrb are you a troll or are you going to offer up forsale all your asicminer shares ?
             

Generally someone like that is buying more shares and trying to talk the price down.   Like people who post "I cannot believe anyone would bid over 20B for a blade, they must be crazy to outbid someone as smart as me...

Maybe not a troll, but is a something.

Is there a word for someone who holds shares in a company, and yet tells everyone that he thinks those shares are overvalued?

You know, if you own shares in a company and you _truly_ believe the market is overvaluing them, then the _only_ sensible move is to sell and invest those funds elsewhere (that isn't overvalued).

Troll or fool or just disingenuous, it's just splitting hairs at this point.

Either mrb needs to sell his shares at this overvalued price, or he needs to acknowledge that at worst the current price is fair value.  Third option would be to stop trolling.

He disagrees with you guys. mrb is not a troll.

If he still doesnt see the difference i guess youre right.

he's trollin

You dont get the difference? Then again... selling was planned even before IPO started. It was part of the business plan. But till some days ago there was no actual plan to start selling in the near future. This came on topic only because of the problems with deployment. Come on.. that cant be that hard...