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Topic: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1217. (Read 3917029 times)

sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250
This one will likely be smaller than usual because of the partial payout at double rate earlier this week to finish payout of "initial investment" for IPO.

But I'd expect about 0.013 to 0.015BTC for next weeks, maybe more depending on how much of the 6THash they have up and running by then (friedcat's last update said 50THash by end of April, beginning mid-april, and leading up to that getting the other 6THash online)

This weeks will likely be half that maybe? but we'll see Smiley

I'll throw my guess at 0.007 BTC approx.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
Well the dividend should be halved and halved again since we already got dividend on sunday. So less then normal.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Got my satoshis as well, im curious to see what this dividend is

My bet is .0095
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
www.bitcoingem.com
Got my satoshis as well, im curious to see what this dividend is
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1227
Away on an extended break
Got my satoshis in. How much do you guys expect to be paid out per share this round?
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
full member
Activity: 216
Merit: 100
Another round of dividends?
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 500
Confirmation Satoshis! First week of normal divys!
full member
Activity: 236
Merit: 100
www.bitcoingem.com
How I see price of share floating around $56.
The price of the shares shouldn't really be impacted by BTCUSD. While there are operational costs in USD, they are pretty negligible right now. ASICMINER mines bitcoins, not USD.

RMB/Yuan, not USD

I agree it still should not matter for the most part, but it will impact ongoing expenses and capital costs at least in a minor way (and it SHOULD be in OUR favor, since the fiat is on the expense side, not the income side.)

Thats exactly right.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
How I see price of share floating around $56.
The price of the shares shouldn't really be impacted by BTCUSD. While there are operational costs in USD, they are pretty negligible right now. ASICMINER mines bitcoins, not USD.

RMB/Yuan, not USD

I agree it still should not matter for the most part, but it will impact ongoing expenses and capital costs at least in a minor way (and it SHOULD be in OUR favor, since the fiat is on the expense side, not the income side.)
hero member
Activity: 499
Merit: 500
I should have posted this here earlier.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/asicminer-for-dummies-159194

As someone who's interested in ASICMINER, can someone in here help by answering some questions please?
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
How I see price of share floating around $56.
The price of the shares shouldn't really be impacted by BTCUSD. While there are operational costs in USD, they are pretty negligible right now. ASICMINER mines bitcoins, not USD.
legendary
Activity: 1912
Merit: 1020
How I see price of share floating around $56.
sr. member
Activity: 408
Merit: 261
Nevertheless, bitfountain has to decide how they want to handle the issue.

Here's some background reading on this topic that may be helpful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury_stock

because the same sort of thing happens to real-world companies.
donator
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
friedcat may want to clearly make a statement on how he wants to implement this (200k:165k or 200k:200k with delayed dividend), before he prepares the next dividend payments and signs off the financial statements.
If this is in fact the position of the company, awesome.  It is good to finally have clarification on that point.
Obviously I can't speak for the founders, since I am only an investor myself. Furthermore the original contract is a bit fuzzy on that point, to say the least. But merging unsold shares with the ownership of the founders after the fact would be rather unconventional. Usually any fund raising or IPO is undertaken by third parties (e.g. underwriters), which also commit to eating the stock if the offering is undersubscribed. Now one could argue that the IPO was not undersubscribed but closed early (due to meeting the USD target, not the bitcoin target), which changes the dynamic. It's a legal mess, but given that the company was heavily undervalued in hindsight should ease the pain.

Nevertheless, bitfountain has to decide how they want to handle the issue. Putting the unsold shares on neutral ground (i.e. make it retained earnings dividend) would be the diplomatic solution.
sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250

A quick back-of-the-envelope valuation: imagine they reach the goal of 10% of the network hashing power, meaning 360 BTC/day, then annualise it and apply a P/E ratio of, say, 10, and you should end up at 3.285 BTC/share.

So it appears slightly undervalued in the market today... (or people in general don't believe ASICMINER can keep 10% of total hashing power)

Possible, but also possible that people just can't/haven't done the math.  Also P/E ratios in the bitcoin world tend to be much higher because there is no SEC regulation, so there is always a higher risk someone could just take the money and run.  Still, assuming asicminer doesn't get killed by BFL/Avalon shipping, a 0.7 valuation is pretty cheap IMO.

The cost of maintaining 10% network power will increase as new players enter the market. Once (if ever) BFL enter the network, more avalons and new players with newer technology will place negative pressure on margins that AM shareholders currently enjoy.

IMHO it may be naive to expect AM to scale with the network in an open competitive environemnt without a significant hit to the marginal earnings capacity, and possibly also naive to talk of PE ratios needing years of earnings to break even when,  tbh we have only seen earnings over a matter of weeks (with a significant, but eroding first-to-market advantage)

Try to consider how long it will take to make a significant impact in the margins...

Consider... what percentage of their income from the current 10% of the network they hold do you think go to overhead? I suspect it's a very small percentage...

Consider how long it's taking the competition to ramp up and distribute hashing power. And how long it will take once the network is stable at say 650THash/s... (that's a BIG jump from where it is today). That would allow ASICMINER to mine at 10% capacity with the 12THash they have (not all deployed) now, and the 50THash they have bought and paid for at the foundry being ramped up through April...

So beyond that, how long until say that hashrate doubles? requiring them to double their capacity, and how long/hard will it be for them to double the capacity? How much will it cost considering they pay under a dollar a chip I believe I remember friedcat saying (now that they have done the initial R&D and proven the chips).

Lets say operating costs are 10% of the current income (I think it's much lower). In that case how much would the global hashrate have to increase before the net income is halved? To drop the 90% rate to 45% rate, would require an additional 45% overhead. Meaning the overhead must be 5.5x the base rate of 10% (again I know I'm guessing at the 10% but I think it's a conservative guess). So that means the hashrate would need to get up to 5.5x 650THash/s... Which would mean a global hashrate of 3.5PetaHash/s... That's a LOT of hashpower... And how long do you think that will take to achieve? I suspect AT LEAST another year (likely longer)

And if ASICMINER is smart, they will begin transitioning before that to mining gear sales. Using their market lead to sustain development of next-gen hardware to compete and keep competitive in that market. Bolstering their bottom line.

Will the mining game eventuall approach zero sum? Yup, that's how it was designed. It naturally gravitates towards razor thin margins. But in the event of a major tech shift, the leader can likely ride the wave for quite some time in this case. And if done right, they can adjust their business model to compensate for any changes as they happen.

I Highly suspect ASICMINER will be able to sustain more than 10% of the network if done right. But the above only really requires them to maintain their 10% estimated... And that allows lots of breathing room...

So... 0.75 sounds like a fantastic deal now doesn't it Wink
full member
Activity: 237
Merit: 100

A quick back-of-the-envelope valuation: imagine they reach the goal of 10% of the network hashing power, meaning 360 BTC/day, then annualise it and apply a P/E ratio of, say, 10, and you should end up at 3.285 BTC/share.

So it appears slightly undervalued in the market today... (or people in general don't believe ASICMINER can keep 10% of total hashing power)

Possible, but also possible that people just can't/haven't done the math.  Also P/E ratios in the bitcoin world tend to be much higher because there is no SEC regulation, so there is always a higher risk someone could just take the money and run.  Still, assuming asicminer doesn't get killed by BFL/Avalon shipping, a 0.7 valuation is pretty cheap IMO.

The cost of maintaining 10% network power will increase as new players enter the market. Once (if ever) BFL enter the network, more avalons and new players with newer technology will place negative pressure on margins that AM shareholders currently enjoy.

IMHO it may be naive to expect AM to scale with the network in an open competitive environemnt without a significant hit to the marginal earnings capacity, and possibly also naive to talk of PE ratios needing years of earnings to break even when,  tbh we have only seen earnings over a matter of weeks (with a significant, but eroding first-to-market advantage)
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
While I agree standard P/E ratios are normally way out of whack from the "real world" when looking at bitcoin. That said I still think ASICMINER is heavily undervalued right now. The only reason I'm selling now is because I have to. (though 0.7 is too low, I'm selling at 0.75, but even that only begrudgingly... I wanted to sell at 1.0 or higher, which I feel is easily attainable).

So all of you who are agreeing with me that the current price is a steal... Why don't you buy my shares at 0.75? Smiley

Too funny!
sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250
While I agree standard P/E ratios are normally way out of whack from the "real world" when looking at bitcoin. That said I still think ASICMINER is heavily undervalued right now. The only reason I'm selling now is because I have to. (though 0.7 is too low, I'm selling at 0.75, but even that only begrudgingly... I wanted to sell at 1.0 or higher, which I feel is easily attainable).

So all of you who are agreeing with me that the current price is a steal... Why don't you buy my shares at 0.75? Smiley
full member
Activity: 219
Merit: 100
https://btct.co/security/ASICMINER-PT
The price is going down here

this is because some of the investors are short-sighten in my opinion. They can only see the projected lowering in dividends and can't think long-term enough to wait for deployment of the 50 Thash/s batch

I think exactly the same. The rumours spread that now its not only half the dividend but maybe even a fourth only because of kept investment money is probably the reason for this. Plus the long lasting 6TH/s isnt advantageous. So i expected a drop. But im astonished how low it fell. I think that will go up soon again. At least in 8 days, when the next real dividend is paid.

A quick back-of-the-envelope valuation: imagine they reach the goal of 10% of the network hashing power, meaning 360 BTC/day, then annualise it and apply a P/E ratio of, say, 10, and you should end up at 3.285 BTC/share.

So it appears slightly undervalued in the market today... (or people in general don't believe ASICMINER can keep 10% of total hashing power)

Possible, but also possible that people just can't/haven't done the math.  Also P/E ratios in the bitcoin world tend to be much higher because there is no SEC regulation, so there is always a higher risk someone could just take the money and run.  Still, assuming asicminer doesn't get killed by BFL/Avalon shipping, a 0.7 valuation is pretty cheap IMO.
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