ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It - page 1218.

bitfair

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Quote from: SaintFlow on March 26, 2013, 11:31:09 AM

It is actully very simple.
The unsold IPO shares are considered void until needed for fundraising.

Until then: sold IPO shares are treated as if they represent 200.000 shares.
If bitcoin does 8 decimals so can Asicminer-shares.

Therefore if 163,962 have been sold they are now valued at
1,21979483 times the dividend of a Bitfountain share.

Indeed, it is simple. But you still get it wrong: each ASICMINER share is entitled to 1/400 000 of the profit from this venture. No special provisions for sold/unsold shares.

SaintFlow

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The first is by definition not flawed.

It is actully very simple.
The unsold IPO shares are considered void until needed for fundraising.

Until then: sold IPO shares are treated as if they represent 200.000 shares.
If bitcoin does 8 decimals so can Asicminer-shares.

Therefore if 163,962 have been sold they are now valued at
1,21979483 times the dividend of a Bitfountain share.

vortex1878

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Quote from: SebastianJu on March 26, 2013, 10:55:19 AM

Quote from: vortex1878 on March 26, 2013, 10:38:58 AM

Quote from: JimiQ84 on March 26, 2013, 09:13:25 AM

So it's exactly as I've written it - there are 400k shares, 250k owns Bitfountain and 150k is owned by smaller investors.

Look up the definition of "exactly" and spare us, please. Lips sealed

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

Introduction
ASICMINER is a virtual identity totally held by investors of the Bitfountain company. The Bitfountain company's business includes mining with self-built ASIC devices, as well as the sales of them. Currently ASICMINER shareholders holds 163,962 shares, while Bitfountain shareholders holds 236,038 shares.

Now im wondering about these numbers. I might remembering wrong but i believe the last stats at glbse showed around 145xxx shares sold. Something around that. Now its 163,962 shares. Are the difference the shares that werent traded through glbse? Then thats probably the foundation of the confusion about the real amount of sold shares.

Only friedcat (whose updated OP I quoted) can answer that.

But apart from the exact numbers the most relevant and interesting point imho was raised by gmouse:

Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:16:32 PM

re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

Also this can only be answered by friedcat as I cannot find it defined anywhere.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: vortex1878 on March 26, 2013, 10:38:58 AM

Quote from: JimiQ84 on March 26, 2013, 09:13:25 AM

So it's exactly as I've written it - there are 400k shares, 250k owns Bitfountain and 150k is owned by smaller investors.

Look up the definition of "exactly" and spare us, please. Lips sealed

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

Introduction
ASICMINER is a virtual identity totally held by investors of the Bitfountain company. The Bitfountain company's business includes mining with self-built ASIC devices, as well as the sales of them. Currently ASICMINER shareholders holds 163,962 shares, while Bitfountain shareholders holds 236,038 shares.

Now im wondering about these numbers. I might remembering wrong but i believe the last stats at glbse showed around 145xxx shares sold. Something around that. Now its 163,962 shares. Are the difference the shares that werent traded through glbse? Then thats probably the foundation of the confusion about the real amount of sold shares.

vortex1878

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on March 26, 2013, 09:13:25 AM

So it's exactly as I've written it - there are 400k shares, 250k owns Bitfountain and 150k is owned by smaller investors.

Look up the definition of "exactly" and spare us, please. Lips sealed

Quote from: friedcat on August 09, 2012, 03:17:17 AM

Introduction
ASICMINER is a virtual identity totally held by investors of the Bitfountain company. The Bitfountain company's business includes mining with self-built ASIC devices, as well as the sales of them. Currently ASICMINER shareholders holds 163,962 shares, while Bitfountain shareholders holds 236,038 shares.

JimiQ84

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So it's exactly as I've written it - there are 400k shares, 250k owns Bitfountain and 150k is owned by smaller investors.

bitfair

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on March 26, 2013, 08:07:16 AM

That doesn't answer what is happening to those unsold 40k shares. Do they even exist? How is dividend calculated?

They exist. They belong to the founders. They receive dividends, in the same manner as the rest of the 400 000 shares.

JimiQ84

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That doesn't answer what is happening to those unsold 40k shares. Do they even exist? How is dividend calculated?

Gabit

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Quote from: JimiQ84 on March 26, 2013, 01:26:30 AM

I guess Bitfountain owned 400 000 shares of ASICMINER (which is company) and sold ~150k of these shares. They planned to have 200k shares and 200k would be owned by smaller investors. But that didn't work out, so about 50k shares are still owned by Bitfountain plus 200K which was always planned.

You guessed absolutely wrong. Bitfountain is the company, Asicminer is divided in 400 000 from where Bifountain owns 200k. Orginal IPO was for 200k Asicminer shares, but the IPO closed early due target was reached, and there were some shares left. Don't remember exactly, but somewhere around 36-40k.

JimiQ84

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I guess Bitfountain owned 400 000 shares of ASICMINER (which is company) and sold ~150k of these shares. They planned to have 200k shares and 200k would be owned by smaller investors. But that didn't work out, so about 50k shares are still owned by Bitfountain plus 200K which was always planned.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: niko on March 25, 2013, 11:10:23 PM

My understanding was that 200`000 shares belong to Bitfountain, 200`000 to ASICMINER company. ASICMINER sold some of the shares in thr IPO to raise capital. It is not clear at all what the fate of unsold shares is, nor what the fate of their dividends is.

I understood it the way that asicminer isnt a company in itself. Bitfountain is the only company involved behind. And Asicminer is only a name for the project. Otherwise... if it would be a company someone has to own it. And he would own the shares then. But it would be strange that one company would sell all of itself like it was planned with the 200000 shares.

niko

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Quote from: SebastianJu on March 25, 2013, 10:55:46 PM

Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:52:11 PM

I am not savvy about how IPOs generally work, but it seems to me that some % of the company is basically without ownership. If each share presently in the hands of public shareholders represents 1/400000 of the company, as do the primary shareholders, where does the ~46K of unsold shares reside? I am accustomed to an IPO having underwriters, so unsold share are the obligation of the underwriter to purchase. But this is obviously not the case here, given the unorthodox market in which we traded.

So, did those unsold shares disappear? Do we the scale up the existent shares, or are they now the property of the primary shareholders, effectively giving them their 200K share plus the 46K unsold IPO shares? Or are there really only about 354K share total?

Im not a pro either but all 400000 shares were owned by bitfountain from the start. They sold 145000 or so and the remaining shares are still theirs.

My understanding was that 200`000 shares belong to Bitfountain, 200`000 to ASICMINER company. ASICMINER sold some of the shares in thr IPO to raise capital. It is not clear at all what the fate of unsold shares is, nor what the fate of their dividends is.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:52:11 PM

I am not savvy about how IPOs generally work, but it seems to me that some % of the company is basically without ownership. If each share presently in the hands of public shareholders represents 1/400000 of the company, as do the primary shareholders, where does the ~46K of unsold shares reside? I am accustomed to an IPO having underwriters, so unsold share are the obligation of the underwriter to purchase. But this is obviously not the case here, given the unorthodox market in which we traded.

So, did those unsold shares disappear? Do we the scale up the existent shares, or are they now the property of the primary shareholders, effectively giving them their 200K share plus the 46K unsold IPO shares? Or are there really only about 354K share total?

Im not a pro either but all 400000 shares were owned by bitfountain from the start. They sold 145000 or so and the remaining shares are still theirs.

gmouse

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Quote from: SebastianJu on March 25, 2013, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:16:32 PM

re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

I doubt they will be sold. Because why should you spread your divididends among more people when you dont need the money raised through these shares?

I am not savvy about how IPOs generally work, but it seems to me that some % of the company is basically without ownership. If each share presently in the hands of public shareholders represents 1/400000 of the company, as do the primary shareholders, where does the ~46K of unsold shares reside? I am accustomed to an IPO having underwriters, so unsold share are the obligation of the underwriter to purchase. But this is obviously not the case here, given the unorthodox market in which we traded.

So, did those unsold shares disappear? Do we the scale up the existent shares, or are they now the property of the primary shareholders, effectively giving them their 200K share plus the 46K unsold IPO shares? Or are there really only about 354K share total?

SebastianJu

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Quote from: niko on March 25, 2013, 10:39:36 PM

Quote from: SebastianJu on March 25, 2013, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:16:32 PM

re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

I doubt they will be sold. Because why should you spread your divididends among more people when you dont need the money raised through these shares?

You wouldn't be diluting the existing shares: it was repeatedly pointed out that each share is entitled to 1/400`000 of the profits, regardless of the number of sold shares.

Yes, but at the moment these shares are still owned by bitfountain. So when they sell them they wouldnt get the dividends for these shares anymore. At least i wouldnt sell it when i dont need and the asics bring enough money in to reinvest.

niko

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Quote from: SebastianJu on March 25, 2013, 10:24:36 PM

Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:16:32 PM

re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

I doubt they will be sold. Because why should you spread your divididends among more people when you dont need the money raised through these shares?

You wouldn't be diluting the existing shares: it was repeatedly pointed out that each share is entitled to 1/400`000 of the profits, regardless of the number of sold shares.

SebastianJu

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Quote from: gmouse on March 25, 2013, 10:16:32 PM

re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

I doubt they will be sold. Because why should you spread your divididends among more people when you dont need the money raised through these shares?

gmouse

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re: the approximately 46K share that remained unsold after the IPO. Are these considered a current asset of the company that, should they be sold, the proceeds from which will also be distributed to current shareholders?

Glasswalker

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Just an FYI/crosspost. For those who agree with me that ASICMINER is under-valued right now, and who are looking to acquire more shares, please see my share sale post at https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wts-204-asicminer-shares-for-155btc-total-075share-sale-pending-158089

Just cross-posting here for those who may be direct-linking to this thread for updates.

Thanks!

talnted

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Quote from: Ukyo on March 25, 2013, 02:53:16 AM

Quote from: stenkross on March 25, 2013, 01:50:12 AM

Thanx for your reply.
I just bought 75 shares on BitFunder.

Maybe I bought while the share is on top, and end up loosing it all.
However, the reason for buying is the impression from friedcat, that he's a hard working guy with high level of professionalism, and that he succeed, when so many others failed.
With that type of guy steering the ship, chance of success is somewhat greater.

I'm in this for the long run, so I'll just cross my fingers and stay away from the sell button.

I agree 1000%. People can speculate over share price, and talk about it dropping due to FriedCat and his team getting paid what they deserve.
I think the share are worth far more, not just because of the dividends, but because of the people that have made this possible.
Sometimes it is not all about money. I forcast a normal 1BTC price per share in the near future.

I have been very impressed with Friedcat. Think of the vast amounts he could have kept, or even paid back the IPO price and said "sorry".
He could have easily funded continued expansion for himself/his group. Instead he is keeping his word, and has become one of the most honest and trusted people in bitcoinland.

I look forward to greater things from Friedcat and Asicminer.

Props and thumbs up to Friedcat and his team for this continuing great success.

I couldnt agree more.

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